pchadbo

" If I tell little Johnny to join the rest of the group so we can keep an eye on him and he refuses to and his parents do nothing about it, then I can only do so much for his safety."

Yeah I get it, but that is when you explain to Johnny's parents, that either he can participate with the group, or they are free to leave. Those really are the options as when Johnny is at a Cub Scout function even if he is off with his parents playing in traffic, we are still responsible for him.

Yes, I totally agree that the problem is not Johnny but his parents, coach them along as to what is expected of both them and Johnny. I for one just don't want to take a chance in today's litigious environment.

"I don't think that the leaders should be held responsible for every single pack event to constantly watch all of the boys"

and this would be your response to Johnny's mother when she picked him up at the emergency room minus an eye because Billy had shot him in the eye with his wrist rocket?

Like it or not WE ARE RESONSIBLE for these boys SAFETY AT ALL TIMES!

yes it can be challenging, yes it is frustrating, but as Cubmaster, it is also part of what you signed up to do: put on a SAFE program.

"An aspect of the med forms issue, in our troop at least, is that med insurance won't let you have 2 exams in the same year. with many doctors requiring a recent exam to sign the form, the turn in for a given family gets later each year as scout progresses through his career (adults too)."

Be Prepared covers this. I have my physical generally in Dec/Jan, bring the form and have the doctor complete it.I am set for the year and just make copies as neccessary, or two copies in the case of Wood Badge, when they lost the first one.

"I'm the CM. The problem was there weren't any leaders that saw this because they were busy with running the activity"

I don't want to sound snarky or rude but, part of running a Cub Scout event IS watching the boys. some leaders need to run the stations or set up or whatever, but SOMEONE needs to watch the boys. Even if the parents are there, they often look to the Pack leadership in these settings. I think the lesson learned is you need to make sure every event has someone whose primary role is the safety and supervision of the boys.

/soapbox rant

Congrats,

I just returned from my second weekend at Gilwell. I used to be a fox. an out training we had (between participants and staff, Beavers, Bobwhites, Eagles, Foxes, Owls, Bears, Buffalo and Antelope. so I guess we spread it out. . .

Working my ticket. . .

Not sure where (if anyhwere) it is in the G2ss, however, wrist rockets were part of the curriculum for my Cub shooting sports qualifications. Yes treat them EXACTLY like BB guns and bos and arrows.

Moose,

not saying your wrong but save proof, I for one will go with the information from the Sercretary of Sate's office rather than the "Union Liar" a paper that has bee held up for decades in Journalism classes across the country as how NOT to run a newspaper for it's blatantly (albeit right wing) bias.

It has improved since Bill and Nackey have passed but it had nowhere else to go.

I will no finish packing, say good weekend and continue this Monday (will you be at the Committee meeting?) as I am Off to Gilwell.

Moose,

not to pick nits but points 1a, 1b and 1d are the same thing just (kinda) restated

point 6 is JUST PLAIN WRONG!!!!

http://sos.nh.gov/voterid.aspx

Acceptable Forms of ID for 2012

Drivers License issued by any state (even if expired)

ID card issued by NH DMV (Division of Motor Vehicles)

U.S. Armed Services ID card

U.S. Passport (even if expired)

Valid photo ID card issued by federal, state, county or local government

Valid student ID card

Other photo ID deemed legitimate by the supervisors of the checklist, the moderator or the clerk

Verification of identity by a supervisor of the checklist, the moderator or the clerk.

If you are going to purvey information, get the facts from somwhere other than the Media. The above link as you may recognize if for the NH Secretary of States's office. A much better source than wherever you got the nonsense you just spouted.

again, lets stick to the FACTS not the emotional dregs,

"I can't agree with your arguement PChadbo.. Personally if JFK lived I see hem evolving with the Democrats like Ted Kennedy and all the other Kennedy's who stayed in politics."

I did not say IF he evolved, IF he changed or IF anything, I said his positions and policies IN 1961-1963 would put him to the RIGHT of Romney, I have no crystal ball and no way to know if he would have stayed on the far left with his brother Ted or gone another way. He is dead and it is a philosophical argument.

My point was to illustrate the movement of the political spectrum to the left.

"I think he would not be comfortable in the Republican party who goes back to voter suppression for blacks, poor and Latino, as well as women..."

Everyone seems to forget that it was Lincoln, a Republican that wrote the Emacipation Proclimation and it was Southern Democrats that passed the Jim Crow Laws. Yes there are Racists, bigots and Homophobes in the Republican party, but they exist in the Democrat party as well.

"He was very much into science, with his vision to go to the moon. He wanted our country to grow in the science field, and in education all around. Republicans now have no need for science that points out things like global warming and how a womens body works"

Can we stop the stereotypes and look at the facts at hand? Most of the Republican party was as aghast as the rest of the world at Senator Dingbat's comments about rape and pregnancy. Or should we judge the Democrat party by the ones who spkie the trees to prevent logging or by the ones who throw paint or worse on fur wearers? Just because there are nutters in the party does not mean the party is all nutters.

"She was asking what the vision was to get people like her into better paying jobs..."

IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB TO "GET" ANYONE A BETTER PAYING JOB!!!!!!

yes I am shouting because it frustrates me. If she wants a better job, go to school, devolp skills, work hard and get ahead like everyone else. She made choices and has to live with the consequences just like I have to for my choices.

"Republicans are so radically right, and refuse to swing center for a compromise.. It makes it impossible to do anything in Congress."

Moose, the entire political spectrum has moved, if JFK were alive today with his agenda and policies, he would be a Republican, to the right of Romney and heading towards McCain. What you call "radical" are the policies that the Republican party has been espousing for 50 years. They did not so much radicalize as were left behind in the shift to the left politically in this country.

"Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?

this one always gets me, the fact that anyone believed that Iraq or Afghanistan would be short wars was sniffing some good campaign fumes. I would ask what our timely exit strategy is for Japan, Germany and Korea, oh yeah, we did essentially the same thing to them that we did to Iraq and Afghanistan and are still there 60+ years later. . .

to me it was not about the exit strategy or the reason we went in it was more about clear expectations in how long we would be there and what "victory" would be. Not done now we slink out of town, with tails between our legs.

"I am relieved that my 4-year-old daughter will not be denied insurance in her adult life due to having a brain tumor removed when she was 1"

just for clarification purposes, pre-existing conditin protections have been in place for at least 9 years (not sure exactly but it was part if HIPAA) and that limited it to condiotions that had been treated or diagnosed within the 6 months prior to joining the health plan and limited the non-covereage period to a maximum of one year from joining the plan. Also required group policies to waive pre-existing condition clauses if the member had creditible coverage for at least one year prior to coming on the plan. The cahnges by the HCR simply changed the wording for those under 19 and waived that one year period for them.

Yes I do work in the evil health insurance field

Yes I have seen positive things from the HCR but I do not feel that the federal gov't should be able to force me to buy anything.

To quote a great legal scholar (I don't remember which one though) "I can't define it but I know it when I see it."

this will severely affect the adults in the Troop. the have a professed goal of cooking something on the smoker wrapped in bacon on each camping trip. . .this will make things harder. . .

well, Moose and Scoutingagain, I was not referring to Reagan, although I do think had the Democrats in Congress spent the money faster tan his tax cuts brought it in (yes taxes were cut and revenues increased) my Fiscal hero of a Presedent is the one the made the single largest tax cut on the wealthiest americans and took the top marginal tax rate from 97% to 68% on the wealhiest americans. Who is this conservative rich man's friend you ask? John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

NOw, if you ask me the presidential candidate who has had the best tax policy idea in my lifetime, I would go with Steve Forbes (just talking Fiscal policy now) eliminate ALL tax deductions other than minimal for kids and exempt the first 25000 for singles and 50000 for a couple and some more per kid but after that you pay a flat rate 4, 5, 6% of your income, period. eliminate most of the IRS, reduce spending there and actually increase revenues and have a much fairer way of taxation.

A guy can dream can't he?

As for Romney, Kennedy or Reagan he ain't but he's better than Mr Obama in my opinion. They both Lie and try to tell you what you want to hear but I believe I am more philosophically aligned with the red guy than the blue guy. I think the gov't exists to allow the individual to excel, it is not the gov'ts responsibility to take care of the population.

OK Pack, so you do seem to enjoy tilting at windmills, in the interest of offering some support to a fellow conservative here on the forums:

While Mitt may have stepped on the old candidate's crank a couple times, I see him as much more fically conservative that our current president (anybody looked at the national debt lately?). I am not enamoured by either candidate but I am much more inclined to vote for the guy that did not double our national debt in three years by selling our grandchildren's future to China.

Now as far as who I would rather sit down and hoist a few with, I would probably choose Mr Obama, he seems like a really nice guy, however, I do not think that he gets what has made this country great, our entrepreneurs, business founders and even yes, the robber-barons of days gone by. Yes I believe that the american working man needs some protection from the abuses of the employers, but not at the expense of the employers. Our employers and yes, by extension, the rich of this country are the engine that makes our country grow, if we shut down our businesses and tax those who have the capital to invest in building more for themselves, and employing other to do that, we shut down our economy. Andrew Carnegie was the richest man in the world, and donnated his wealth to some great charaties when he died, he also ran US Steel with an iron fist, but he made the transcontinental railway and the industrialization of this country possible. Was he Good or Evil? Depends on whether you think the individual should be valued above the good of the nation.

I think Mitt Romney understands this and is looking to support the ones who make the economy grow and create jobs for those of us who are not "fortunate sons"

Pack,

I think that you are giving way too much credit to the population at large. Ask your Scouts what happened at Jonestown and I bet you get "a flood" or blank stares. Most of the population uses the phrase "to drink the Kool-Aid" as a buy in to a potentially questionable arrangement. While yes, historically, the reference comes from Jim Jones and his miguided activities, most people I have run across do not know the historical reference any more than people know that "the rule of thumb" is a reference to how big the stick could be when you beat your wife (no bigger than the man's thumb).

While I do appreciate the history and do admire your tenacity to correct the maligning of the good name of Kool-Aid, I fear you may be swimming against the tide.

Good luck!!!

First: Full disclosure, I am a Member of the District Committee. I am also a Pack Committee Chair. I am also a Fox (second weekend of Wood Badge this weekend).

Next, reading this thread, the argument seems to be boiled down to this. Units don't want to support the District because they do not provide anything of value and the District cannot provide anything of value because they have no support form the Unit.

Seems a circular argument that begs the question, why don't we all work together at the extent of our abilities and limited time resources and help ALL THE BOYS and maybe get the boys involved helping at the District level (OA anyone?) or maybe a Unit give a Patrol the leadership opportunity of a lifetime and sys "hey you guys are awesome at planning our Troop campouts, they are so much fun, want to put one on for the District?

Many hands, light work.

Just my $0.02

What do you see that causes Cubs to leave Scouting? Sports? Not cool any more? Not having fun? Weak program? Family issues?

Baden, and Beavah, I think you may have missed a word in Pack's post, he prefaced the situation between Baevah and himself with

"hypothetically".

It was just a "for-instance" not an attack against Beavah (I think).

Edited because I still can't type(This message has been edited by pchadbo)

Congratulations!

I am a Fox, and a good ole Fox too

9 more days till weekend 2 back at Gilwell

" Right, because people should be more tolerant of bigotry and prejudice (rolls eyes)." .

There is a distinct difference between bigotry and prejudice and deciding who is allowed to be in your club based on joining requirements.

I am not allowed to Join the American Legion or the VFW so they must be prejudiced against non-veterans

I am not allowed to join the Knights of Columbus so they must be prejudiced against non-catholics

I am not allowed to join B'nai B'rith so they must be prejudiced aginst non-Jews

I am not allowed to join 9 TO 5 NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF WORKING WOMEN so they must be prejudiced against men.

We as Americans are free to associate with whomever we choose to. Just because you want to join the organization does not mean they have to let you join. Nor doers it mean that the organization is neccessarily prejudiced or bigoted. People just like to associate with like-minded individuals. If the membership wants the joining requirements changed, then the organization should respond. Augusta National Golf course just admitted it's first ever female members. Things change but as the Scout law says, a Scout is obedient and works to change things from within the system.

If enough Scouts and Scouters make it known that this is a non-issue among the membership at large then a change might be made. Until then. . .a Scout is obedient.

For the record, I don't care what color you are, what religion (if any) your are or with whom you sleep at night, just as long as you follow the Scout Law and keep your views to yourself and I will keep mine to my self.

"I would not want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member"

--Groucho Marx

"Personally, I have a hard time finding much of a use for "The Law of the Pack.""

So, you can't find a use for this:

The Cub Scout follows Akela.

The Cub Scout helps the pack go.

The pack helps the Cub Scout grow.

The Cub Scout gives goodwill.

what part of this is hard to incorporate into EVERY MEETING?

The Cub Scout follows Akela.

The Cub Scout follOws their leader (parent, den leader, cubmaster, den chief, etc.) this happens in EVERY MEETING.

The Cub Scout helps the pack go.

The Cub Scout help fundraise, participates in meetings, helps his Den entertain at meetings, again done at EVERY MEETING.

The pack helps the Cub Scout grow.

Obvious, but, we teach the Cubs and build them into young men, prepared for Boy Scouts. Again, this is ongoing EVERY MEETING.

The Cub Scout gives goodwill.

pardon the sarcasm but DUH?!!?

If you cannot find a teachable moment for each of these point in EVERY MEETING, maybe you need to re-examine your role in Cub Scouting.

This is no different from seeing two Boy Scouts acting up in some way and asking, what part of the Boy Scout Law does that apply to?

Just at a younger and simpler version for the Cubbies

Edited because I cannot type.(This message has been edited by pchadbo)

I am now a fox. Wonderful first weekend. Now to work on my tickets. . .

Ahhhh. . .the circle of Wood Badge, I leave tomorrow morning for my first weekend.

Congratulations! I look forward to being there someday. . .