OneHour

Quick questions, who signs off the rank requirements? SM, ASM, PL or the SPL? I can't seem to find that thread. I thought that the PL or the SPL signs off as he teaches the boys. The SM holds the SM conference and the Committee or interested parents (other than the ASMs and the SM) holds the BOR. Our SM indicated that I, as the ASM, need to sign off the boys' rank requirement. I don't mind at all, but since this is a patrol method, the PL and the SPL are the teachers and thus they will need to sign off on the scout's book or at least that what I remembered from OLT. Also, the blue merit badge card, who signs that? The SM or the Advancement Chair? So about the simple questions ... new to the ASM world. A little more history ... it was our first official meeting with the Scout Troop. After being a Cubmaster for several years, it was tough to see the new boys run amock, rendering the older scouts helpless, but I bit my tongue, sat on my hands and let the older boys deal with the situation. I think that our troop will have a "growing pain," a true growing pain. They went from 25 to 52 boys overnight! With the majority of the new boys are Webelos. From my observations, how do I (as an new ASM assigned to the new scout patrol) help the troop guide to get the new boys to calm down (crowd control). Last night, I did step the PL aside once in a while to ask him how would he have handled the situation and lead him to a suggestion that might work. I found myself coaching the SPL as well. Now, am I overstepping my boundaries as an ASM? I was taught that we need to coach the JLeaders in approaching the solution by themselves and I think that I did that, but is there anything else that I could do? The SM and the Committee are planning to put the JLs through JLT in April/May time frame. I just need to help them with working with the younger boys! 13 of these 20 new scouts are the same ones that I have known for five years. They were wonderful (under adult guidance), but as they taste the new environment, they are testing the limits of everything ... which is great, but very discomforting for parents to watch, especially they have a vision that the Scouting world will be run the same way as the Cub world is. Yes, I have explained to these parents of what to expect in a Patrol Method and boy-lead world. Thanks in advance, 1hour (This message has been edited by OneHour)

Agree fully! Best bang for the citizenship and moral buck!

dsteele, thanks for the compliments! I can't stop coming to the Pack meeting, my second son is a wolf! My third one will be a tiger in 3 years. So I'm married to the Pack for the next 3 to 8 years. If my message came across as antigonizing ... I apoligize deeply. Also, I can't claim to be a great CM since my job was the easiest in the Pack ... having too much fun! YIS

imascouter ... thanks for the minute. I used it at our Webelos crossed-over a few weeks ago as my Cubmaster minute. As I was speaking, I noticed that the minute has captured the attention of everyone in attendance, from Webelos to parents, from scout to scoutmasters. The last sentence seems to hit home for everyone! "To our young men; if you want to set a similar pace and direction in your life, make your first achievement, as Commander McCool did, the Eagle Scout Award!" After the ceremony, I got alot great comments from the parents and visiting scoutmasters with regards to the minute. As for the boys, they actually remember the minute, especially my son! On the behalf of our Webelos and their parents, thanks. YIS 1hour ps: I did give credit where credit is due(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Dsteele ... I did talk to him and reassured him that it was not he at all. I was the CM! I felt bad and responsible since I coaxed him into taking the job! When the previous two CMs took their positions, the Pack attendance went up ... that's what got me dumbfounded! I'm still there at the meeting to support him. sctmom ... it's not the signs of the hard economic time. I think that dsteele was right. The parents are taking advantage of the changing of the leadership and decided to take a break! Now how do I get the Pack rev up again?

I mistakenly posted this question in High Adventure and netted no comment. So I'll try it here: Anyone has any experience at the Sid Richardson Scout Ranch in Fort Worth in mid June? (especially, you folks in the Longhorn Council) Our troop is thinking about attendng Summer Camp there. Any feedback would be appreciated. Is it hot? Avg. day time temp? Night time temp? Dry? Wet? Muddy? Mosquitoes? Any recommendation? Mosquito net? fan? Is it wall tent on concrete slab? Latrene? Food ... enough for an adult? Recommended equipment for summer camp? etc. Thanks in advance. 1hour

We need suggestion on how to get our Pack recharged. Our CM handed the reign over to a new CM and moved on to boy scout. The new CM is very knowlegable and well trained. The Pack did not give a good united front of support for the new CM when only 40% (of 90 boys) of the kids showed up at his first Pack meeting. At our Spring Campout (which netted an average of 46 families in the last two years for Spring campout and 60 families for the Fall campout), only 15 families showed up. I got a feeling that he may be thinking that he is not doing his job, but on the contrary ... he is doing his job very well as a Cubmaster! I can't put my finger on it! Our Pack usually has an average attendance of about 70% (sport season dependent) at Pack meeting. Nothing has changed! As a matter of fact, he is a better MC for a CM than our previous CM. Any suggestion? Thanks in advance.(This message has been edited by OneHour)

1st it was the Scouting Caravan ... used it for everything and ran it up to 97,000 miles within three years. Traded it in for a Scouting Odyssey. It has accumulated 60,000+ within the last 2 years and still have several smaller camping items in the back. Love to camp in Texas, but everything so far and few in between! I also drive the scouting Accord with most of the Cub Scout stuffs in the trunk (i.e., plag stands, ropes for knots, arts and crafts, etc.). It's my mobile Den! My wife still wants me to clean out the van and the car; however, everytime that I clean them out, we would have a campout with either the troop or the Pack or a Den activity!

Whooo hoooo ... go for it sctmom. from your 1378 postings ... you are a natural for the Cubmastership! It's fun ... more so than the committee side. Just let the proverbial "hair down" and have some fun with the boys and with the parents and you'll do just fine! It takes the same one hour on the program side! Congrats on getting a job that's worth all the while! 1Hour (former Cubmaster)

I second that emotion! My thanks to all the scouters as well! We may not make an impact on all the boys, but we do make an impact on two for sure ... our own son and one other! That one hour is sure worth all of the efforts! 1hour

Thanks for the advices. I will let them decide where they want me. I gave the SM my app, leaving the position blank, and asked him to get with the CC to see where they need help. You are all correct, both sides need help! I can influence from either side. I can always be on the opposite side later since I have three boys ... I'll be in it for a long time! I guess that I will get post another request for advices on how to deal with the situation later on. I have more than just my sons at stake in squashing the political tides, many in my Pack are interested going where I am at. So ... that's the 10 who join with us this time and over 30+ boys for the next 3 years. It's going to be interesting to say the least! Thanks. 1hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Any of y'all had any experience at the Sid Richardson Scout Ranch in Fort Worth in mid June? (especially, you folks in the Longhorn Council) Any feedback would be appreciated. Is it hot? Avg. day time temp? Night time temp? Dry? Wet? Muddy? Mosquitoes? Any recommendation? Mosquito net? fan? Is it wall tent on concrete slab? Latrene? Food ... enough for an adult? Recommended equipment for summer camp? etc. Thanks in advance. 1hour ps: Sorry ... I should have posted this in the Summer Camp area. (This message has been edited by OneHour)

Bob ... that's Sonny PlayStation, the video game. I'm not at all endorsing any video game, but they are what's taking over the kids' interests nowaday, the younger ones any way. 75-78 SHAC, back then we had some good ole time with scouting and we had a fairly large troop ~60 boys. We did things that are now band! i.e. riding in the back of a pickup, hunting rabbits, etc. doing things that we leaders nowadays would shutter even the thought of it, things that we would cringe when the word "liability" come into play, and things that would constitute harassment (snipe hunting, etc.). I agree Laser Tag and the likes should not replace a troop activity event; however, it wouldn't be a bad supplemental outing just for the sake of having fun!

Well ... believe it or not, the CC was (is?) the Unit Commissioner. When I say "on paper," what I meant was the SM ran the troop, not the SPL and his assistants. Don't get me wrong the SM is very good with the boys and he is a great guy, but I don't think that he has grown out of the CM mode after he transitioned into scouting couple of years ago. The SM is not what I'm worried about, it's the CC and his hidden agenda (there is a long story behind that). Let's just say that I was warned about the CC from another District officer! As I put it to one of the other Webelos parents, this troop is destined for greatness or it will fall miserably with this CC. My son chose this troop because he thinks that they have more fun than the other and that's important! (This message has been edited by OneHour)

Just as LauraT, I can't decide which sandbox to play in. My oldest just crossover about two weeks ago. He chose a troop that I didn't care for (namely because of the adult leadership ... not the boys), but I respect his decision. This troop has a political battle going on between the CC and the SM. The CC is trying to control the troop (I'm not sure of his m.o. but from past dealings with him in Cub Scout, I simply don't trust the man). The SM has always gathered all the power and the CC is trying to decentralize him. The CC did try to form a new troop a couple of years ago but wasn't successful. He went out of his way to pit two local troops against each other and last year he tried to performed a coup-de-tete and get both troops combined. It didn't work. The SM, on the other hand, has always done everything by himself. The Committee and the program side were run by him. The patrol method existed only on paper. Now, that my son chose this troop, I am ready to roll up my sleeves to help. I can't decide which side. I am trained in both ASM and Committee. I preferred the program side since I was a CM and love to teach the kids, but the Committee side needs help (namely to keep the CC in check). So what do you folks think? ASM or Committee?

Marty ... they are the car fume and perfume ... of course! The alcohol is the excluded and banned fume!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

Hey ... let me join in the fun. My two cents worth is: If the boy is aquaphobic (and you can tell instantaneously or if not being told by him or his parent), then he shouldn't be in the water (not unless it is for therapy in which case it should be done by a professional therapist). If the boy is a weak swimmer (again one can tell during swim test), with or without nose clip and goggles, he should be supervised and paid special attention to. If the boy is a strong swimmer, then he should be allowed to pass the test with the equipment (since it is not banned by the rules). Now, about the concern of being "overboard" during a boat, cannoe, outing, first of all, safe boating requires all participants to wear PFDs (BSA rule). Being a strong swimmer, he will be able to use his swimming skills to swim to safety (without the goggles and nose clip) as part of his natural survival instinct! How do I know? It happened to me. I knew how to swim, but was never comfortable without my goggles and nose clip (nostrils way too big! ). I wear goggles because I can see better with the goggles (extremely near-sighted) in the water than without them and the chlorine has a field day with my eyes. The nose clip was to allow me to practice on the correct bad breathing habbits that I had developped. I was with a group of friends on a boat outing in high school. All of us wore our PFDs. Our small boat overturned (due to some horseplaying) about 1500 yds from the shore. We had to swim back. When I had to ... I swam! I swam without my googles and nose clip just fine for 1500 yards! So my conclusion ... just like riding bicycle, if you know how to swim ... you will swim under any condition and your body will not let you forget! I prefer swimming in natural water than swimming pool ... no chlorine! Some kids never had the luxury of swimming anywhere but swimming pool and the chlorine may adversely affect them and that's why they prefer goggles. They will, however, make due with what they have and use the skills that they know! If the boy has to swim freestyle with his head unconventionally above the water ... he'll get where he wants to go eventually, but the important thing is that ... it doesn't matter how he swims ... as long as he can get himself to safety or stay afloat long enough for helps to arrive, then he'll do just fine. It's the kids who don't know or who are weak swimmers that we, as adults, need to pay special attention to! Remember in the last summer Olympic where an African swimmer swam with his head above water? I don't believe that the olympic officials banned from the water because he didn't swim correctly! What's that has to do with anything? Nothing other than a swimmer will swim!

While it is great to have fun with a purpose, but fun for the sake of having fun sometimes retains scouts! Having to compete against sports and likes of sports, camping and the idealology of scouting is not enough nowaday to keep the boys interested. It was cool close to 30 years ago to go camping and do all of the boyscout stuffs! Nowaday, Nintendo, Playstation, Xbox, ybox, zbox ... etc are readily available, in addition to sports, to draw the boys away from scouting. Only a handful of boys wants to camp ... and only a handful of them wants to be an Eagle Scout. When the two fumes kick-in at high school level, then they are the other distracting factors. Laser Tag and other outings (rock gym climbing ... etc) are "added attraction" to keep the boys interested. If we try to make it too politically correct and totally safe, then the only thing that really available left for the boys to do is "basket weaving!" Even that may involve injuries such as getting poked in the eyes with the straw! Also ... as Ed pointed it out ... these are some of the additional activities that the troop (the boys) want to do! We as leaders need to make sure that they are safe and purposeful (and to me ... having fun is one of the purposes in scouting)! (This message has been edited by OneHour)

http://www.lucernevalley.net/scouts/pinehist.htm "The first Cub Scouts to participate in a pinewood derby were from Cub Scout Pack 280c of Manhattan Beach, Calif. The event was originated by Cubmaster, Donald Murphy, and was run in the Manhattan Beach Clubhouse on May 15, 1953 (Thanks to Gary D. Mcaulay, Cubmaster of Pack 713c, Manhattan Beach, for this information). This even was later publicized in the October 1954 issue of Boys' Life,with the magazine offering plans for the track and car (which featured four wheels, four nails, and three blocks of wood). Since then, an estimated 40 million fathers and sons have participated in races. Millions more-parents, den leaders, Cubmasters, committee members-have been involved in various ways. The rules of the very first race stated: The derby is run in heats-two to four cars starting by gravity from a standstill on a track and run down a ramp to a finish line unaided. The track is an inclined ramp with wood strips down the center to guide the cars...."

I put together a "knot-tying" apparatus with the ever-so useful Popcorn tin cans. I filled two large tin cans with cements and cemetned two 2" PVC stubs in the middle of the cans with 2"PVC connectors on top of the stubs. From there, I mounted four feet 2" PVC and attached 90 degrees 2" elbows. Attached between them is a six feet 2" PVC pipe. This is my "tent." I cemented a camping stake in the middle of a smaller tin can (the cheapy $7 popcorn can) ... 6 of them. These are my "stakes." With this, I taught them the two-half hitches (anchor the rope to the top of the tent) and the taut-line hitch (tighten the tent guy-wire to the stake)! I also use the "cross-bar" of my tent to teach the other anchoring knots that are "knot" part of the requirements. The beauty is to use the apparatus in a race ... that's when they really learn. As for the bowline, I teach them two types ... the "self" bowline and the "traditional ... rabbit and the hole" bowline. Two methods that I used that are very effective. The "self" bowline can easily be demonstrated by first throwing myself into the deep end of the pool and pretend to be the drowing victim. I would have one of throw me a rope when I would hold on to the rope with one hand while tying the bowline with the other. By the time that they pull me up, they were amazed as to how fast I had tied it with only one hand! All of them want to be the drowing victim! This is when I told them only the scout who can successfully demonstrate to me how to tie the bowline without looking can be the victim! The other method is to have them beat me on speed of tying the bowline. So far ... only one of my Webelos comes close ... with 3.5 sec. I don't slow down for them because they have to have an incentive to beat! ... my record? 2.8 sec. That goes with square, sheep shank, clove hitch, etc. So the moral of the story is ... you need to be an expert at it and challenge the boys ... there isn't a boy who does not want to beat his leader! The last useful thing is to have them setup a flag pole at camp by lashing and tying two spars together! I also have a quiz page too for them too ... but for fun only!

Just for the record, 'cause my answer wasn't quite as clear. No! A scoutmaster can't require a Scout to dye his hair a normal color.

In our District, if someone in your Troop Committee got the Committee Basic Training and obtain the Troop Committee Challenge package, he/she can provide the Troop Committee Challenge training. It shows the workings of a Committee with its functions and relation to a Patrol Method Troop. Good for new parents and anyone who is new to the Committee, but it would also be good for Committees that are not organized to support the Patrol Method Troop!

Thanks dsteele ... but we stop filling out those health form on the back. As a matter of fact, this CC (troop CC ... not the Pack CC) got us to fill out the Class 1 for the boys as well! He is pretty knowledgable about the workings of BSA. I'm very surprised! The fact is that we have never had to do it before! Not that I am lazy and I don't want to bring ... it's just that they might not be available because our Pack CC is not up to par with filing and paperwork and the CC before that is not that good either! Thanks.

My Webelos Den is about to cross over to the Troop. The CC just asked to have all adults and cubs original apps to be brough along with them. Huh? We have never had to do that. All that we had to do is to fill out the new apps and mark transfer box ... since we already rechartered with the current Pack before crossover. Our Council usually takes care of this. Is it necessary to have the original apps? They are 5 years old and our Pack's CC are not the most organized person in the world! Thanks.

Does it really matter???????????? Let's look at it from another angle. Turkey want $30 Billion dollars to help us on top of that many other "our friends" want the same to fight Saddam. It costs Billions so far to deploy 240,000 troops and will cost Billions more and that with a capital "B!" This is to weed out one guy! I'm not against go to war with Iraq. I'm not for it either, but if there is an identifiable element that we can go after for 911... let's kid the Shiite out of them, but .... My son's 5th grade teacher is only getting paid $35k a year! This is a lady who is supposed to teach my son and his friends the knowledge to become great men and women! J.C., we should be spending the capital "Bs" on our future! Our teachers deserve better than what they are getting paid Let Saddam kill his people ... his people will take care of him. My technicians (who have only high school diplomas) are getting paid 2x to 3x my son's teacher! What about the poor/the hungry/ and the ones on foodstamps? What about our stinking economy? What about this ... what about that? I can think of many worth while things to spend those Billions and trillions on instead of getting rid off one guy! Those SCUDS are a threat ... not to the US! They need to strap all of the SCUDS rockets together to have enough boosters to get over that Atlantic Ocean! Come on be for real ... CIA, FBI, secret services, etc. can hire or have their own men who can knock Saddam off with one bullet for less money!!!! I have never fully appreciate teachers until I became a scout leader! Cheers... still only OneHour