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Posts posted by NWScouter

  1. I worked at Boeing in the late 90's and I saw a acronym book that was at least 2 inches tick and bound. If you worked in say the 777 program you could have an acronym that was the same letters in the 747 program but stand for something else. If you knew enough history of the manufacturing processes you could figure out where the leaders of the new program had worked before by the acronyms they had their new program using.

  2. I was the Good Turn for America person on the district committee. GTFA is not an advancement but a way to recorded all the service hours that BSA members give. So if it conservation service require in an CS requirement, achievement, for world conservation award, requirement for Star, Life, Eagle, cleaning up the park at Day Camp, singing carols, or anything done by a members or leader whether for advancement, patch or just for the heck of it counts and should be recorded for Good Turn for America.

  3. The yellow den leader shirt, depending on which batch of fabric used, was almost to by gosh entirely see through. My ex-wife always wore a white turtle neck shirt with it.


    The slide show was nice that Time has but its caption writers have the National and World Jamborees mixed up. Those shots are from a National Jamboree. All are wearing a national Jambo patches and all are BSA.


    When did we have blue troop numbers? In the 50's era scouts they have blue unit numbers?(This message has been edited by Nwscouter)

  4. I took a course at a place I was working on customer relations skills. It was call FISH and put on by the people from the Fish Market at Pike Place Market in Seattle who throw the fish around.


    Their take on questions was while you have answered the question a thousand times before it is the questioners first time. And they deserved a good answer.


    Check some threads topics on this site, OA sash wear, Too young to be an Eagle,

    uniform -- all have been asked but someone needed an answer now.

  5. Ed, your right those words do not appear in the constitution. The words in the first clause of the first amendment are "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" The rules of the Supreme Courts, federal and state, have said the clause creates separation of church and state. The courts have said to enforce that clause that the state (both federal, and individual since the 14th amendment)cannot give support to any religious group or give them any preference over other groups. Courts have over the last 220 years have ruled and are ruling on the exact boundaries of that separation but have not disagreed that the clause does mean separation of church and state.


    Also, Ed this is the question that I ask people who are so sure that Government should support religion. "Is your Faith, your Religion so weak that it needs government support to compete in marketplace of ideas?" I believe mine does not.(This message has been edited by Nwscouter)

  6. FD other than city departments out in Washington State are refered as junior taxing districts along with water districts, school districts, diking districts, library districts and park districts. That means they do tax for operating expenses and repayment of bond for capital projects. They can be volunteer, volunteer and paid or fully paid firefighters depending on the population and/or the tax base.


    If your FD is staffed by volunteers and gets it funding through taxes under state law and the voters vote for the bonds to build stuff and elect fire commissioners I think you are a government entity.(This message has been edited by Nwscouter)

  7. If as has been stated before by BSA officials and their agents state that the BSA is a religious organization (establishment) then in Washington State no state support can be had. The prohibition has been in our constitution since the state was admitted in 1889.

    Here is the wording: "No public money or property shall be appropriated for or applied to any religious worship, exercise or instruction, or the support of any religious establishment:..."


    Even the chartering of unit with out any contribution of final support would be against the constitution, because the goodwill of the agency is considered property (am I right NJCubScouter?).


    Our state constitution even has a clause that forbids Lawmakers to accept passes from the evil railroads (remember it was 1889).

  8. In the western states, which do have a strong LDS membership. You will find a great deal of pressure to not hold events that included Sunday. Be it WB, camporee, or summer camp. They as practice charter 4 units in a ward. With packs, troops, teams and crews of only five boys and sometimes get waivers to have smaller units than the minimum size. Again they do not have girls in the crews and they have no crew members older than 18. The men are assign by the ward's bishop to scouting positions and many times you are lucky that they are last 2 or 3 years before they are resigned to another position in the church.

  9. Urban Scouting was an attempt to make Scouting relevant as all Scouting numbers were dropping. First the baby boom generation was aging out of Scouting and the number of available youth were in a free fall. Not to pick up until the Baby Boom bounce generation in the '80 scouts. Scouts came out of the '60s as very unhip and thought of as very 'establishment' not appealing to the many of the parents of the early '70s. The relevant to the kids theme, resulted in a urban look to include potential members where scouting numbers were dropping faster, the cities.

    The middle class scouting type families were moving to suburbs. The school district where i grew up just outside Seattle closed many of its elementary and jr. high schools plus one of its three high school. Our parents were still living there but not the 3- 5 kids. The kids wee priced out of the neighborhoods and if new families were moving in they had 1-3 kids.

    So they looked to the urban environment to rebuild numbers. So they took on Urban Scouting, which seemed to not have the outing as important. Units and leaders who remembered the earlier days of scouting kept the outing and maintained or grew.


    The bounce back in numbers came as people like me become parents and their kids came of scouting age in conjugation with an increased emphasis of outing.


    Another interesting addition to scouting numbers was the boom in membership of the Mormons. In the eighties into the nineties they had great growth in members. As scouting was their official program for their young men. Membership numbers grew as every boy had to be in scouting. The increase in units boomed as new wards were being created. Each new ward (many wards can be in one building) had to have Cub Pack, Scout Troop, Varsity Team and Explorer Post (now a Venture Crew). New ward = 4 new units. many of them just had the minimum number and got waivers if they didn't.(This message has been edited by Nwscouter)

  10. Not a comment about the case but the comment about Coho tasting fatty. it must because they're in fresh water. Out here they're in salt water and they're fine eating fish. Even the landlocked lake coho in Flathead Lake, Mt. and up in BC's lakes are prized and fine eating.


    I come from commercial salmon salmon fishing family both in Alaska and the Salish Sea (Puget Sound and BC waters, Salish Sea the new designation approved by US and BC naming authorities.)

  11. The flag store in Seattle I went to closed they carried a small display of historical American flags, but I found another on the web in Ohio that does: http://www.flagladyohio.com/store/historical-flags-miniature-historical-flags-c-16_25.html?zenid=5920539a3f77b7d8eeada8780d976210. I thought the Scout Shops carried it but it is not in the online catalogue. I sure there are other web resources.


    A great flag history site is: http://www.usflag.org/index.html. The only thing it hasnt been updated in the last two years at least in the great section about the evolution of the US flag from 13 to 50 stars. It tells how each flag got its new stars, long it flew and what presidents served under it. It mentions the 48 star flag was longest flying one with 47 years, but the 50 star flag passed it up July 4, 2007.(This message has been edited by nwscouter)

  12. I would deny, disrespecting (in your definition) the flag is disrespecting the country. Flying the flag on the aerials of the all the cars in a used car lot, that is against the flag code using the flag for advertising, sitting down or not saluting or removing your hat or wearing patriotic flag printed clothing are all against the flag code. Should all doing so be kicked out of the country? I heard a lot of people complaining about people waving foreign flags at demonstrations, hope they never go to a Seventeenth of May Parade in Norwegian- American community, very few American flags waved lots of Norwegian though.


    I understand the Jehovah Witness belief concerning the flag and pledge, they with the help of ACLU in the forties won a Supreme Court decision striking down laws requiring Schools to participate in the Pledge. Many people bring flag worship and nationalism to the level of idolatry and that is against my reading of the Ten Commandments.


  13. Also be on the watch for treated wood at campsites -- typicaly state parks -- were there may be construction going on. I'm not talking major either, picnic tables, shealters railing, etc.

    Had some of my scouts taking scrap ends from construction and burning in their fires. They thought the multicolored flames were neat.


    Had fun removing then from the fire, drowning them (the wood)and returning them to the scrap wood pile. Had no idea what nasties were released into the air.


    If you have to treat it for this propose wait till carved.

  14. I come from totem pole country, sort of, need to go a few 100 miles north in to British Columbia and Alaska to be where they really did them. They used cedar for them, long lasting, rot resistant and easy to carve. Do a search on Northwest Coast Indian Art at the library or bookstore and you will find excellent books. Next time you see an Seahawks helmet you will see a stylize version of the designs. If you find a book by Bill Holm, my college prof at the University of Washington youll get some of the best scholarly studies of the art form.


    The virtual endless food supply of the coast of Washington, British Columbia and Southwest Alaska plus the availability of cedar made for a fertile area for development of the art form.


    Here are some pictures I posted about camp: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21571421@N08/ It has a few pieces of regalia from our OA chapter using NW Coast Art.


  15. People reaction to lease termination is understandable but also perplexing. Out here we have leases on tribal land. Nearby the Tulalip Tribes have a lot of non-native living in homes built on land leased to them by the tribes in a prime waterfront area. The land has been leased for 50+ years

    A couple of years ago the tribes informed some of the leaseholders that this was going to be the last five or ten year renewal of their leases. The tribes are not going to lease them back out but their land planning agency has figured out in a few years the property will slid in to Port Gardner Bay. The removal of the structures will slow or stop the ground from sliding.


    The revolt is on. I think some of those leaseholders dont understand what lease means. They are trying to covert the land into private property. The problem is that nearby some of the land inside the tribal reservation is owned by non-tribal members but governed by the tribes land use rules as the county and state land use rule are not applicable to tribal land. This creates friction between the tribes and the non-tribal members.


    I read somewhere on the southern Atlantic coast leaseholders on federal land in now wilderness or wildlife protected land are fighting the governments refusal to renew their agreements.


    So termination of leases like what is happening in Philadelphia brings up the same bad feelings and legal troubles.


  16. Out here called Tag Alongs. Only children of volunteers at day camp that day. Can use the older sisters to help out with the younger ones. If possible can participate in age apporiate Day Camp staions -- crafts, cooking, nature -- if you have time for them to do it.


    Are they still requiring Day Camp Den Dhiefs to be 14? I had my younger Boy Scouts volunteering to be DC DC for years and then one year got turned down because they where not 14.

  17. Latin Cross vs. Crucifix, it has to do with emphasis as I understand it. The Latin Cross is empty signifying the risen Christ and the Crucifix with Christ hanging on the cross the suffering sacrificial Christ dying for our sins.


    In an aside one of my favorite stories:


    Little Jimmys parents had heard that local Catholic parochial school is real strong in the basic and Jimmy wasnt doing so well in the school he was attending. So even though they werent religious at all they decided to send him to St. Francis.


    A few months latter they went to the parent-teacher conference to get his report card. The teacher said he was working hard and doing great. His grades were super instead of Cs and Ds, he was now getting As and Bs.


    They brought Jimmy to the Ice Cream Parlor for a reward. His Dad said Were so proud of you for bringing your grades up. Especially your Math grade, you were getting Ds in your old school now youre getting an A.


    Dad, theyre real serious about math at that school. Didnt see what happened to the guy who didnt do well in math? They nailed him to a plus sign and hung up reminders in every room.


  18. Pack mentioned that his church as a youth had policy that no flags are to be in the sanctuary, it is an ongoing debate for many congregations -- the statement below is from my Church the ELCA. I personally feel that a national flag does not belong in a Christian sanctuary, the church ultimate and only allegiance is to God.


    Though in good Norwegian Lutheran passive aggressiveness I don't make a big deal about the flags in my congregation worship space because there are members that would get too upset if they were removed.



    Are flags appropriate in church?


    One of the most frequently asked questions directed to the worship staff of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and its predecessor church bodies has been whether it is appropriate for congregations to place flags in the worship space. The recurring issue is not flags themselves, but the national flag of the United States of America. Flags are not a required element in a Christian worship space.


    This question touches many important issues. The American flag is a powerful symbol of this nation. It carries enormous emotional meaning, especially for veterans and for families that have sacrificed loved ones in wars and armed conflicts under that symbol. It can also carry great political significance for those who see it as a symbol of what they consider amiss with our nation. Anyone who doubts the power of the flag as a symbol might consider the public scandal caused in Chicago when a student artist at the internationally known Art Institute of Chicago chose to display the American flag on the floor of an art gallery. Public demonstrations followed the opening of the exhibit. The use and display of the flag remains a sensitive issue.


    Some Christian churches are identified with nations or states (the Church of England is Anglican; the Church of Norway, Lutheran; the Church of Sweden, Lutheran; and so forth.). Sometimes these churches display flags as a part of their national identification. In the United States, of course, we have no state church. Yet here, too, many Christian congregations have traditionally included an American flag among the items used to furnish their worship space or displayed elsewhere in their building. In many congregations, it has been customary for the American flag to stand to one side of the altar and the so-called Christian flag to stand on the other. Perhaps when the Lutheran church was primarily an immigrant church, the need to display a clear loyalty to the new nation and not to the mother country was very importantespecially when worship was in the mother tongue.


    When considering what should appear in our worship space, Christians will always want to ask what symbols we can use to help us focus on what is central in our faith: Jesus Christ, our crucified and risen Lord. Of course, the cross or crucifix has become the preeminent symbol of Christ across many cultures and nations. There are other symbols that focus the community on Christ: the altar where the Holy Communion is celebrated; the baptismal font where Holy Baptism is celebrated; the pulpit or ambo where the Word is proclaimed in reading and preaching. Christian art that represents Christ and the teachings of the testaments in sculpture, stained glass, painting, and other artistic media are also powerful visible symbols. All of these are appropriate to the worship space because they help both individuals and the assembly focus on Christ. The focus of everything that appears in the worship space, not just flags, ought to be considered. Anything that does not direct us to Christ can easily become a distraction from Christ.


    The flag of the United States is a national symbol, not a religious one. It is as at home in a ball park as in church. Christians balance their national loyalties with their loyalty to Jesus Christ and Christs church. The Christian church includes many individual nations and states. It calls Christians to transcend national divisions, and thus to observe their baptismal unity. As Saint Paul says: "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:27-28). The worship space of the congregation is not the best place to display national flags, for such display honors neither the integrity of the flag nor the sovereignty of the Lordship of Christ. In reality, national interests and the commitment of the Christian to Christ can come into conflict.


    A responsible alternative to putting the flag in the worship space would be to display it prominently place in other suitable places. Placing flags in the fellowship or community hall, the gymnasium, or other large meeting room used by civic groups such as scouting organizations or for civic functions such as voting, allows the flag to carry out its symbolic function for the nation without competing with the central symbols of the Christian faith. Congregations that have war memorial chapels, plaques, or books of remembrance and the like and which desire to display the American flag might want to consider placing the flag near those places in their building rather than in the worship space.


    The so-called Christian flag seems originally to have been an emblem associated with the international Sunday school movement. It is not identified with any particular church body, is superfluous in a space where the cross or crucifix is the central symbol of the faith.


    Whenever the American flag is displayed publicly, it is very important to follow with great care the rules of protocol that have been established by civic agencies governing that display. It is possible to give great-unintended offense if these rules are not followed. A local veterans group or military post usually can supply these rules on request. These protocols apply wherever the flag is displayed, indoors or outdoors. Proper placement, lighting, care, all need to be considered carefully


  19. Ed,

    It is not about the work being done by volunteers, but by the work being done by non-union members in violation of a valid contract.


    If you had a contract with someone and they didn't honor it, you would be foolish not to seek to make them live up to the contract.


    That is all that is going on here. After the process is done there will be a finding whether or not the city could do it.


    The union has a right and a responsibilty to its members to seek that judgement.

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