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Posts posted by NWScouter

  1. The borders of our country have always been porous. With us trying to stop Mexican migration northward; we are trying to stop something thats been happening for hundreds of years. The recent change in the last 30 years or so is that more are crossing because there is more work for them. When I was a child in Washington State when had the same if not more seasonal farm work, but not a much Mexican labor. I have seen pictures of migrant hop pickers in Issaquah in the 20s and 30s, they where not Mexican but what you would call more American, of European and African origins. I had cousins who picked berries as teenagers for school clothes. Remember the book Of Mice and Men. At some time Americans decided not to do the work and in the case of teenagers it was deemed too dangerous. If you want fresh fruit and vegetable from the US we have to have the pickers.


    Americans though dont like migrants of any kind. In the Dust Bowl years of the 20s and 30s many states, California comes to mind, tried to keep the Okies and others out.

    (This message has been edited by nwscouter)

  2. The city had signed a contract with the union and in it agreed to what kind of work it covered and if there was a dispute there is a grievance process. If you where a real estate agent and had a listing (a contract) to sell a house and while your listing was in force, the seller sells to friend and refuses to pay your commission, youd sue him because your listing agreement says that if the house sells while the listing is in force then you own so much commission. The contract between the city and a union is no different except that this contract has a process (grievance) to find out if the contract had been violated and to enforce the contract if it had been. In this case city employees are going through the process that the city agreed to, to see if the contract has been violated. It is not a minor issue, peoples lives and incomes are at stake. If the wording of the contract that was agreed by the city and employees (union) says that they should be paid for that work then they will get paid, now even if the scouts did all the work.

  3. I live in the city which would have got the new 787 line for Boeing. Boeing never in good faith bargained to keep it in Everett. The union, the city and the state worked hard to keep it here. But the company never had the intention to keep it here. The line workers here make $25 + an hour; in North Carolina without a union they make $12-14.

    Boeing claims a month long strike is why to 787 is 22 months behind schedule. No it is mismanagement.


    Back in the 80s in Portland Oregon the bus service had the same dust up over an Eagle Project taking union work. Back when I was in student government in college, we had student legislature reps try to block a student flower planting day over union work. It is not a new issue and the unions have a contract signed to do that work.

    Just imagine if there was no union involved. ABC Trail Construction inc. had signed a contract with the city to build that trail. Then the local trail association volunteered to build it. So the city told ABC to take a hike. ABC would have the city in court so fast you heads would spin.


  4. Do you if you arent a relative of US citizen you more the likely will not be able to immigrate legally. Even then the waits can be well beyond ten years from certain countries like Mexico or the Philippines. The only quick way in is by refugee, asylum status and by taking high tech jobs away from Americans (H1B visa).


    Up until the 1920s anyone could immigrate here unless you were undesirable, criminals (including political), sick (TB etc.) and oh, Japanese and Chinese (since the 1880s). The first comprehensive immigration law was in the 20s, we decided that we needed to protect against un-American, low-wage foreigners. So they set up quotas for immigration based on ethnic groups already here. High quotas for Northern European Protestants cause they made the best Americans (still not sure about the Irish), let in only a few of those Southern European Catholics and Eastern European Slavs and Jews, and still exclude the Japanese and Chinese.


    The reality is the Americans have always decided that we have enough people here and keep those that arent like us out.


  5. read this right, the 5 months 10 days is how long after he was Life he served as a Den Chief an Eagle POR and you have a problem with either being a Den Chief as a qualifying POR or that he didnt do a good enough job as Den Chief.


    If you have a problem with a Den Chief as Eagle POR, get over it, the requirements allow it. If you had a problem with his service as Den Chief and he has served a year and Im assuming he used it for Life, why wait until 20 days left. You should have discussed with him earlier in Scoutmaster Conference. By the way all he need to serve is 20 days more in POR, you cant make him serve six months, he only needs to serve six months in qualifying PORs it does not have to be in one position.

    (This message has been edited by nwscouter)

  6. I guess all Im trying to say is if you ran under the banner of a party and the voters of a district who know what the party stood for and then voted for him. You should not be surprised that the representative voted for those things. The representative should listen to you as he listens to all the people of the district, and then votes the way he feels is best for the district and the nation. If the people of his district feel he is not representing them, then they can vote him out.


    What I am saying if your district has been electing a representative for multiple terms as a Democrat or Republican then they are also approving him as part of that Party. I can rant and rail against Doc Hastings, or Dave Reichert, Republican reps from Washington State, but I have to feel that they are representing their district the way the people in those district want to be represented. Just the way McDermott, Smith, Inslee, Dicks, and my rep Larsen do. I feel that Baird who ran as Democrat and then didnt support the bill is betraying the people who voted for him.


    I will have to inform you that I am a Democratic Party Leader, I hold the following offices; precinct committee officer, chair of the 38th District Legislative Democrats, 2nd Vice-chair of the Snohomish County Democratic Central Committee and Treasurer of the Washington State Democratic Chairs Organization. I find that in Washington State party leaders, they are like you and me in Scouting, not paid and given the same line Its only one hour (or meeting) a week (or month).


  7. My representative does all that too, newsletters and polls. He got plenty of complaints about the health care reform, most of them based on misinformation propagated by right wing scare groups. The interesting thing is he received an equal number of communications from people who did vote for him who felt he didnt go far enough. They want not just a public option but a single payer plan like Canada and the European countries. They want the insurance companies out of health care.


    Most of the people who where at the healthcare forums, yelling and calling him names would not vote for him what ever he did. 60% of his constituents, who voted for him, knew he was for health care reform and voted for him because he was for health care reform. If you lose an election you know, as I knew during the Bush years, your ideals dont have much chance to get ahead. Winning says you have the majority and your ideals should govern what is enacted. If you los,t work to get someone else elected next time. If who you voted for betrays you, then find someone to run against him.


  8. I have used back packing stoves since I bought a Primus back from REI (then called the Coop) in the 60s when I was a Boy Scout. I now have a MSR WhisperLite still from REI, liquid fuel, prefer it over gas canisters, dont like sleeping with my fuel to get it started in the cold and worrying how to correctly to dispose of canisters. The pot I used back then was a 3lb metal coffee can (Folgers, I think was my parents favorite).


    I once bought this neat fold up non-stick fry pan. I hiked in with a frozen steak to impress the scouts with what they could cook. It thawed perfectly by dinner and I fried it up in the pan on my WhisperLite. Put it on a plate and did the mum mum it sure is good routine. Went to clean the pan; it had a bare metal circle the size of the stoves flame area. All the non-stick coating there had gone somewhere, my stomach I think. The stove was too hot. I also have had light weight plastic backpacking forks melt off their tines when using them to fry bacon or pork sausage. Right into the grease.


    I took a look at the JetBoil website. They have a picture of a guy sitting in a raging river holding the stove and cooking. Not a good idea, too many times I or my hiking buddies would have stove tip over and boil water, soup or what ever all over the place. I just love ads that show products used in an unsafe manner just to make them look neat.


  9. I got these out of the Washington Trails web site wta.org. These are recipes by Sarah Kirkconnell. Her blog is www.trailcooking.com. The names sounds real fancy but it is easy to do on a backbacking stove.


    I know it calls for fresh picked Huckleberries, too late to get them around here now but be creative with the fruit.


    Many like the freezer bag method, no pot cleaning. Just rise out the bag and put it in your carry out trash bag and your dish washing is done by throwing it in the first trash can you come to.



    Curried Salmon Pilaf

    In a quart freezer or storage bag put:

    1 1/2 cups instant rice

    1/2 of a 1.4-ounce pouch Knorr Vegetable

    Soup Mix

    2 tsp mild curry powder

    Also pack:

    1 6-ounce pouch wild salmon

    1 Tbsp or 1 packet extra virgin olive oil

    In camp:

    Pick about 1/2 cup fresh Huckleberries, making

    sure stems are plucked off. (That is about

    two handfuls of berries.)

    Add 1 1/2 cups water, oil and salmon to your

    pot. Break up the salmon and bring to a boil.

    Turn off your stove, add the rice mixture, stir

    well then gently fold in the berries. Set aside for

    10 minutes, in cooler weather use a pot cozy to

    retain heat. Fluff up and serve with Parmesan

    cheese on top if desired.

    Serves two.

    Freezer Bag Cooking Method:

    Add the oil and salmon to the dry ingredients

    in the quart freezer bag.

    Add 1 1/2 cups very hot water, stirring well.

    Gently fold in the berries. Seal the bag tightly

    and put in a cozy for 15 minutes. Proceed as above.


    Double Ginger Huckleberry Cobbler

    In a storage bag:

    2/3 cup baking mix (e.g. Bisquick)

    1 Tbsp. sugar

    1 Tbsp. diced candied ginger

    1/4 tsp. dry ginger powder

    In a snack bag:

    1/4 cup sugar

    2 Tbsp. corn starch

    1/4 tsp. True Lime or Lemon powder

    In camp:

    Pick about 1 cup fresh huckleberries, making

    sure stems are plucked off. (That is about four

    handfuls of berries.)

    Add 1/4 cup cool water to the baking mix

    bag and knead gently till mixed.

    Seal and set aside.

    Add 1 cup water to your pot and stir in the

    contents of the small sugar bag till dissolved.

    Add the berries and bring the pot to a boil.

    Lower the flame on your stove to as low as it

    will go and quickly add in the prepared baking

    mix by dropping in spoonfuls on the hot berry

    mixture. Put on the pots lid and simmer gently

    on low heat for ten to twelve minutes or until

    the topping is done.

  10. I want to ask you a question. What is the way you determine if a legislator/representative is not doing what the people he is represents wants? Not just who yells the loudest or disrupts meeting the most, but what the people in his/her district want. It is called an election. They were elected by a majority of the people in their district (I know a very few by just a plurality). Every two, four or six years you get to vote them out if enough of you in their district agree with you.


    This summer I went to two of the town halls my US representative held, I talked to many of the tea baggers, found very few of them who voted for Rep. Larsen, who won with more than 60% the last three times. It seems to me that the people in our district like what he is doing.


    Elections is how we determine how we what to be represented. The people who voted him would feel betrayed if he voted against for example the house health care bill, in fact may of us feel it doesnt go far enough.


    I cant do much than send a check to defeat your representative in your district, but I can work hard to get my elected that thinks like I do. Thats why I dont like term limits. Why should I not get to keep someone I like? No one should limit my choice on who gets to represent me.


    BTW I'll be in meeting with Rick Thursday morning.

  11. Did Jackie Paper die or just go away-- you decide. Singers do not live forever, Mary Travers RIP


    A dragon lives forever but not so little boys

    Painted wings and giant rings make way for other toys.

    One grey night it happened, Jackie Paper came no more

    And Puff that mighty dragon, he ceased his fearless roar.


    His head was bent in sorrow, green scales fell like rain,

    Puff no longer went to play along the cherry lane.

    Without his life-long friend, Puff could not be brave,

    So Puff that mighty dragon sadly slipped into his cave.



    (This message has been edited by nwscouter)

  12. Baden does not speak for me.

    Leroy brings up the contradictions in what some of the posters dont understand. If the BSA discriminates against gay and atheists for whatever reason; the government cant give any kind of sponsorship because it is against the law. The BSA can be a discriminatory organization, thats their right, but to cry about it when we loose some government support is not standing and taking what we deserve.


  13. Reading the topic about WWII scout uniforms reminded me of website I read about Scouting world wide during WWII. It is really a book length site called The Left Handshake, The Boy Scout Movement during the War, 1939-1945 by Hilary St. George Saunders. http://pinetreeweb.com/left-handshake.htm .

    It is fascinating full of stories of Boy Scouts and Girl Guides in the ruble of the Warsaw uprising, working with the Dutch underground. I only found one factual error dealing with Norway, the author said the invasion of Norway followed the Danish by 24 hours; they were all part of the same operation on the morning of April 9, 1940. Personal with me, my mother, brother and many of my relatives were under occupation there.


    Here is the forward:



    byThe Chief Scout of the British Commonwealth and Empire

    WHEN COLONEL BADEN-POWELL entered the capital city of the Ashanti people in 1890 he was met by one of the Chiefs who came to him holding out his left hand. B.-P. held out his right in return but the Chief said: "No, in my country the bravest of the brave shake with the left hand." So began the "left handshake" of the world-wide brotherhood of Scouts. In this book are told some of the stories of courage and endurance shown by Scouts in many different countries during the war of 1939-45. There would not be room even in many books to tell them all. Many, indeed, can never be told; some for political reasons, some because the actors died unknown. They remembered their Promise, to do their best to do their duty to God, and their Country; to think of other people and not themselves. So, when the time came, they were prepared in body and in spirit to render their service.Their record is unsurpassed; they were "the bravest of the brave."

    Lord Rowallan

    Chief Scout


  14. Now the Webelos misconception, first the only difference between a W1 and 2 is the grade/age of a Webelos, the program is the same the W2 are just about finished. What you called Webolos 3 and assuming this because you said they were in a troop, is used by LDS troops. They divide up their program strictly by age because their responsibilities in their church are done like that. The Boy Scouts 12-13, Varsity 14-15 and Venturing 16-17 are under the Young Mens Presidency, while the Cubs 8-10 (no tigers) and 11 year old Boy Scouts are the Womens Relief Society. Im out here in Washington, at least a third of units are chartered to LDS wards (4 units to each). You work in any position above the unit level you get exposure to their unit structure. The 1st year Boy Scouts, will generally not meet with the other Scouts, goes on only 3 overnights and does not go to summer camp. It did fit better until the BSA in the late 40s lowered the ages of Boy Scouts to 11 and Cubs to 8, thus they created a first year program but are registerd as Boy Scouts.

  15. No we have to be registered there are bad guys out there.

    I was a district advancement chair for two years and maintained the MBC list was a pain. It was an excel spread sheet and data consistency problems. James Jones, the same person as Jimmy Jones with a different address (move?) or Jim or Jr Jones at the same address (son or a different MB?) . Then they started tracking on the National Database (just names, not enough time to add MB counseled). Well that allow us to drop scouter registered in other positions when they left them; but what if he was a great leather crafter and would have stayed on as MBC. Another problem, if MBC was only registered as a MBC nothing else, there was no rechartering (no money) as an incentive to clean up the list. Imagine if you gave a SM a MBC who turned around and gave it to the scout and MBC has moved, divorced or died. Some mighty uncomfortable conversations for a young scout. One of my pet peeves was MBC who only do their unit, our council even had a box to check on the MBC list of badges form to limit who they worked with. I seriously doubt that it was ever checked when an advancement report was submitted (no time) and it would not be fair at Eagle time for MBC could be no longer on the list but was when completed.


    If you didnt register them and do YP can you imagine what the BSA liability would be? But how to get qualified MBC is and will be a issue that I really dont see an easy solution.


  16. It didn't copy over.

    Here is the list of handbooks:


    Official Handbook/A Handbook of Woodcraft, Scouting, and Life-craft (1911)

    The Official Handbook for Boys (1911-1914)

    Boy Scout Handbook/2nd Edition The Official Handbook for Boys (1914-27)

    Boy Scout Handbook/3rd Edition Revised Handbook for Boys (1927-40)

    Boy Scout Handbook/4th Edition Revised Handbook for Boys (1940-48)

    Boy Scout Handbook/5th Edition Handbook for Boys (1948-59)

    Boy Scout Handbook/6th Edition Boy Scout Handbook (1959-65)

    Boy Scout Handbook/7th Edition Boy Scout Handbook (1965-72)

    Boy Scout Handbook/8th Edition Scout Handbook (1972-79)

    Boy Scout Handbook/9th Edition Official Boy Scout Handbook (1979-90)

    Boy Scout Handbook/10th Edition Boy Scout Handbook (1990-98)

    Boy Scout Handbook/11th Edition Boy Scout Handbook (1998-09)

    Boy Scout Mini Handbook (#30511); an extract of the standard handbook for use as a temporary advancement record

    Boy Scout Handbook/12th Edition Boy Scout Handbook (Aug. 1, 2009)[3]


    My cub uniform has the Lion Badge. I once tried to start a Lion Club for FOS to join you had to have in some part of FOS contribution you had to have the last two digits of the year you earned you Lion, Like for me it would be $63, $163, $630, $6300 or any other combination. I didn't get any traction on it.

  17. One thing I like to clear up, the accident insurance that a unit has purchases only medical coverage coordinated with any insurances a member of the unit has. It is not liability insurance, it will not cover the shingle that gets away and hits a park user for medical or for his windshield being fixed. It only covers specific persons. Last time I read one policy, the wording was such that it would cover a boy on an outing checking out Scouting but uncovered are non register persons like a little sister tagging along. The last I heard is the National is the holder of the General Liability.

  18. I do remembering the change. I started Boy Scouts in 63 and stayed until I was 18 in 70. The handbook had changed in 65. In 67 they got rid of the Lion badge, added 15 activity badges and made a one year stand alone Webelos den for 10 year old. The badge we know as the Arrow of Light was added to Cubbing in 41 and called it Webolos, in 54 they started the Webelos Den for 10.5 year old Cubs. In 72 the cloth Bobcat badge we know today was added. From 67 to 71 only diamond shaped rank badges worn were Wolf and Bear. The Old Webelos badge name was changed to Arrow of Light in 72. The diamond shaped Webolos badge we know today was started in 77 or 78. If you find a diamond shaped yellow with a blue W, that was the Webelos Den patch, which still resides on the right sleeve of my Cub Scout uniform in my closet.


    Below you will find a list of the editions of the Handbook, the infamous plain green cover edition of 72 is included though many old time Scouters wish it didnt exist and may refuse to recognize it.


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