ntrog8r

Trying to stay under two hours and maintain their interest can be a challenge!

Older but shorter films:

Drums Along the Mohawk (104 minutes)

Young Mr Lincoln (100 minutes)

Longer, but perhaps able to hold their attention:

The Right Stuff (193 minutes)

Glory (122 minutes)

Last of the Mohicans (117 minutes)

Rudy (116 minutes)

For the Scouters: Follow Me Boys! (131 minutes)

For the official BSA position, check the following links:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide.aspx (Insignia Guide, Intro and Table of contents)

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/01.aspx (Official Policy)

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/02.aspx (you may be interested in Clause 4 and 6)

The official stuff is there for any who may be interested. Opinions in how to implement the policy and this METHOD of Scouting vary greatly. I try to set the example and "...promote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions..." as stated in the official policy. I also find (most) of the unofficial patches funny, you know the ones - untrainable, etc.

I do get irritated when some "elder" of Scouting lectures folks about the way its gonna be while they're standing there in a uniform they know is wrong but feel they have the authority to change because of who they are. Usually these same guys are also wrong about the other aspects of the program they're lecturing on.

I've also seen great Scouters who are really focused on delivering to the Scouts and community. They have been fully and correctly uniformed or not uniformed. I have rarely seen great, inspirational leaders who are partly uniformed. But I have seen them.

So it guess its the "I'm better than thou" attitude that really gets on my nerves, uniformed or not. (This message has been edited by ntrog8r)

Arrow of Light Requirements (a different question, but raised above):

1. Be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge.

This is one of seven requirements and the one that seems to get the most attention since it relates to when a Webelos can transition.

The requirements for joining a BS Troop (this is one of ten):

1. Meet age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.

This, and the other requiremnts, can be found at:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/boyscouts/advancementandawards/joining.aspx

Hope this clears this up.

Generally speaking, do NOT remove the internal frame! The Internal Frame is either two aluminium, plastic, fibreglass, or composite staves that run vertically from the top to the bottom of the pack. In some internal backpacks a ridged HDPE frame sheet is incorporated in the design for extra stability and back protection. These frames are NOT removeable.

Fill your tub with lukewarm water, add Woolite, agitate for suds. place the entire backpack in the water and get it wet, inside and out. Let it sit for 15 minutes or so. Go back and scrub, mash, palpate, etc. If there is ground in food, stains, etc use a toothbrush and gently scrub the area. Rinse well and drain all the water possible out of the bag, don't forget pockets that can hold water. Hang dry over the tub for an hour or two, then hang dry in the shade with good ventilation until dry.

You can also just take it to the dry cleaners.

Hope this helps.

Beavah, Well said as always.

I don't care for the "Keepers of the Flame" concept. Eagle is what you become - not what you are presented by a board of adults based on forms and paperwork. Nothing galls me more than seeing adults decide a young man's fate, so to speak, by trying to tear apart his paperwork. If there are questions about the paperwork, get them answered outside of the EBOR and outside the hearing of the Scout. If there is a problem within the district of Scouts showing up wihtout the development of achieving Eagle, address that at the units, roundtables, advancement committee, etc. Why are we waiting until a Scout demonstrates the courage and resolve to stand before a board to address the failings of adults? Now, I am all for "hard" questions at an EBOR: What are the three skills you believe will be most helpful to you in the next four years, How do you expect to serve the community in the future, What POR allowed you to make the most impact and how, what impact have you had in the life of another Scout, what adult leader has had the greatest impact on you - why/how, what aspect of the Scouting program would you change, etc. Questions that focus on development, character, lessons learned, inculcation of Scout values, etc. are the "hard" questions for an EBOR (IMO), not a review of whether or not the Scout and every adult reviewer of the application got something right.

Another pet peeve, religious interrogation. What do you mean you haven't attended church services in the past few months, do you really think that is living up to the Scout Law? MAYBE an acceptable question would be, "How do you demonstrate reverance in your life outside of organized worship activities?", or "What are the requirements/expectations of your (organized religion) and how do you incorporate them into your life?" Keeping in mind the Scout's religious practices are NOT what is being questioned but HOW he lives "A Scout is Reverent."

I think EVERY BoR should be another positive, mentoring, life-building experience for the young man, not a chance to prove he doesn't deserve it. Again, if there are legitimate questions about the application and the Scout's performance, address this BEFORE the EBoR with the unit, et al.(This message has been edited by ntrog8r)

We've had no pilling on our Switchback pants. We put'em in the dryer.

Knee highs? I wear them under my 9" boots in long pants, but with shorts? Not since the '70s has this been a good idea. Now maybe in the deep wilderness there is some merit (ticks, burs, etc) but I know of no youth who would wear them! But I still miss them. (This message has been edited by ntrog8r)

As a former CM?SM, there are a couple of incidents that come to mind...

First goes back to CS days. We had a 5th grade Webelo who was a trouble-maker. All kinds of trouble, most way too advanced a young boy. Obvious problems at home, etc. Scouting was a safe place for him, where he could be accepted as part of a group. I didn't realize how fragile that acceptance was, or how fragile his control was until after the incident. We were having a Pack Committee meeting after the Den meetings, Cubs all released back to parents, MCs kids outside on the grounds with two parents to supervise. Unfortunately this boy's dad decided NOT to take him all the way home and instead kicked him out of the car about two blocks from our meeting place. Not knowing where else to go he came back to us. We came up to wher ethe other Cubs were playing, he started yelling at them, grabbed one, threw him to the ground, and started punching him in the face. He had to be physically DRAGGED off the other boy. When the police arrived and the other boy was taken by ambulance to the ER, his Dad finally showed up and started screaming that we weren't doing our jobs and tryed to attack me. Turns out he was beating this poor boy at home - big shock, I know. The Committee voted to kick this boy and his parents out of the Pack. I finally persuaded them to allow this boy back into the program, with new controls in place, and he finished his time with us in the care of his grandmother. He transferred to a Troop and made it to Life. His time was not always easy but he made it. The boy he attacked was fine, scared to death of him, for obvious reasons. But we spoke with him and his parents about the controls we implemented and they all agreed to stay with us and give us a chance to reach this boy in need and keep the others safe.

The second incident involves boy in our troop whose teachers sad was "unreachable", his football coach would not let him on the field because he was "uncontrollable". Our first outing (his Dad present) he decided to take a stick out of the fire and run through the grass with it like an Olympic torch. Once I caught him and brought him back into the camp site, he proceeded to cuss me out. I had his Dad take him to their SUV and sit him in the front seat. Dad sat in the back and I sat in the drivers seat. We had a talk about respect and being a man. It was explained that what he had done that would never be allowed again, why it would never be allowed again, and the various actions that would result if they did. He was sent home for two months. For those two months, the SPL, his PL, and I went to their home after every meeting and sat with his Mom and Dad and talked about what the Troop was doing. Notice we did not include him. He was never asked to come out or invited to join in. At the end of his "probation", we all went back to their home and told him we really missed his energy in the Troop. We asked if he would consider coming back to the Troop. He "reluctantly" agreed. He had extra requirements to participate with us, which I know some will quickly explain I, as the SM, had no right to do. He had to show me his grades every week and maintain a C average. He had to have his teaachers permission to attend the meetings. His report card and behavior, in and out of the Troop were discussions at every SM conference. He was given specific jobs to do with firm follow-up from the PL and SPL. His Dad had to attend all functions with him the requirement for his Dad was to stay uninvolved but present). For three years this young man grew in the Troop and earned Star. He never held a position as PL or SPL but always did well at his PORs. At 16, after two years of city league football, he was back on the school team and excelled. His coach told his Dad what great potential he had, if only he practiced more. His Dad pulled him out of the Troop that week and never responded to us again.

None of this is against removing Scouts from the program, I'm sure there are boys and families out there that can't be reached by us volunteers trying to make it all work. This is simply the two experiences I've had where boys ALMOST removed from the program, and both for excellent reasons! I'm glad Scouting was able to reach them, at least for awhile, and make difference for them.

I'm talking to Records again on Monday. I'll see what they have and ask how they'd like this. I suspect they'll let me pm you the appropriate contact info.

WOW! Top notch research, dew! Can you provide sources with this? I bet the National Museum would love this.

Though I have always heard and used the "towel" version, a Google search (pronounce baden powell) bings a myriad sites, not related to Scouting, that say it is "POE' l". This should be in the Handbook!

Beavah,

I like the partnership idea; maybe that's something that could be woked at the Council level in a given area. But I have to hope you're wrong about not having enough time wtih an hour a week. After all, we're trying to develop life habits in a lot of other areas in that hour and if it won't work we're just spinning our wheels, right? Certainly, one hour will not undo the choices they make during the rest of the week. But the hour may help mold those choices.

Maybe we don't know what to do ourselves?

Maybe National should push info through the magazine division - not just raw data but idea plans (program helps?), low cal recipes for the DO, healthy trail mix, low fat snacks, etc. Maybe balance every video game review with an active toy/sport review. Should SMs review camp meal plans with an eye to nutrition, ban "snacks" from a Scout's pack? How about a "Biggest Loser" challenge at the Council-level; it could be greatest weight loss by individual, unit, or even district. As Knoight pointed out, should Cracker Barrels be changed to no food or to healthy snacks only? Should units continue holding pizza parties? How about inter-Patrol competitions for fitness held over a six-month period - the adult "patrol" could participate? Do we just need to reemphasize the outdoors in the program and get the Scouts (and Scouters) outside - hiking, climbing, running, backpacking, swimming, etc?

In our Troop, the heaviest person is the ASM. But we're on a military base and everybody is pretty fit so when I say he's the heaviest, that means his stomach isn't flat. This guy can swim, canoe, backpack, hike with the best of 'em. But the national trend is alarming. Is our organization facing this problem? If not, are we not recruiting/retaining the overweight youth? If this is real problem we face, what are we doing/can be done/should be done about it?

I talked to Records at National today; all they had at hand was two copies of the article. They are going to look some more on Monday and let me know what they can find. Hope to have some good news for you then!

Forest E. Witcraft (1894 - 1967), a scholar, teacher, and Boy Scout administrator.

It appears what he left behind was a great essay in Scouting magazine, a grainy photo, and an inspiration to countless folks to serve youth by the liberal use of his quote. Other than that, there's nothing to be found. I imagine National/Scouting magazine may have more if you contact them.

Interesting the impact a single thing you say can make in the world, even if you're otherwise relatively anonymous. There's probably a Scoutmaster Minute in that somewhere...

I've never heard of an "Advancement Camp", camps where Scouts demonstrated / completed items for advancement - yes. I heard once, at a training long ago, that BP said, "Advancement should be like a tan, something earned effortlessly while out of doors." Now, I don't know if BP really said that or not, but it sure rings well with me...

As for signing the book, that's the SM's choice. If there is any question about the LEVEL OF SKILL learned by the Scout, have him demonstrate. If his dad wants to involved in advancement methods and procedures, recruit him to a spot where you can use his enthusiasm, AFTER completing requisite training. Funny how the loudest ones never go to the training... Personally I would not question the veracity of the activities being done, after all a Scout and a Scouter are attesting to it. I may question the LEVEL OF SKILL learned / retained by the Scout.

Regardless, I'd probably send a thank you off to the other SM for hosting my Scout and sending a note telling me what they worked on at the camp.

skeptic,

Thanks for sharing this piece of Scouting history. Sometimes we all need a SM Minute to stay inspired and on track.

The purpose of WB as described in the course curriculem:

As a result of attending Wood Badge, participants will be able to

View Scouting globally, as a family of interrelated, values-based programs that provide age-appropriate activities for youth.

Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values-based movement.

Apply the skills they learn from their participation as a member of a successful working team.

Revitalize their commitment by sharing in an overall inspirational experience that helps provide Scouting with the leadership it needs to accomplish its mission on an ongoing basis.

Which of these things require an age/experience/AW####/etc limit? Without digressing into whether or not current WB is on the right track, I'm wondering which of these purposes/objectives of the curriculem can not be met based on youth/inexperience. After all, these folks are ALREADY Scout leaders right? They are ALREADY teaching, coaching, mentoring, influencing Scouts at all ages whether they go through WB or not. WB only achieves the above purposes, it is not a prerequisite for serving the BSA as a registered Scouter.

Nick,

Great job and my heartfelt congratulations on your accomplishment. I'm sure this is one of many along the way and one of many yet to come. Young men, ethically led and purpose driven, will change our world. Thank you for being one of them.

Tsutla

The cost to JOIN is prorated based on when you enroll. The full fee covers 12 months ($10), so if the unit recharters in DEC and you enroll before the end of SEP that's 4 months ($3.40). If you OPT to subscribe to Boy's Life (highly recommended) that's a seperate subscription fee - 12 months = $10; 4 months = $4.

As mentioned above, there may be Troop dues to pay as well.

The info above is found on the Youth Application form Page 3) which you can download here:

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/28-406.pdf

You're right about adviser selection, shortridge. The OA pedigree does not always mean the person will be a good YOUTH adviser. Although they'd probably make a good trainer or adult adviser, at least.

I agree Beaver. I see the MBC list grow shorter ever year as troop seem to have an amazing talent pool, even though with less than 12 Scouts. I've never really understood the Troop-only MBC idea. How does it take more time to counsel Scouts from a different Troop? The community experts are usually more than happy to join in, if someone justs asks them. Archaeology, Ham Radio, Rocketry clubs, etc are filled with people with a passion who will usually jump at the chance to pass on their excitement. Museum staffs, Chamber of Commerce, local pools, outdoor stores, etc are another great recruitment place if are in an urban area. School teachers can sometimes be pulled into the mix as well, if approached right.

It costs as much as you have. What I mean by that is whatever money you earn you spend on the program - as much or as little as that is. When we started earning some major popcorn money, our spending went way up. Your minimum costs can just be recharter fees, depending on what the Pack does for the program. Even this can be paid for by the chartered organization - which is how we've always managed to do it with the units we've been affiliated with.

We had our Webelos pick a name for their Den - kind of like a "patrol" and that was the basis for their yell. They also would make a flag or ownership staff.

Welcome to the forums, fighterpilot!

All commitee members are allowed to wear the uniform so the easy answer to your question is yes. The Scoutmaster, as John mentions, IS a (non-voting) member of the commitee. If a Scouter is ASM then they are not a member of the commitee, but can attend. Of course you may have an ASM that is also the "outdoor activies chair" or something on the commitee as well.

If this is a CS Pack, just sub CM for the SM and Den Leaders for the ASMs above.

For the meetings with no obvious plan or direction I wonder where the Advisers were BEFORE the meeting. "What is your focus this time?", "What decisions have to be made/communicated at the meeting?", "What's coming up on the calendar?", etc.

Just like the meeting plan happens before the meeting so should most advice, I think.

If something is derailed, certainly the Adviser should step in, gently asTwocubdad suggests, to get things rolling again. Those guiding questions are great tools.

I spoke to the Chapter Adviser after the meeting, trying to use guiding questions, and then heard about how the Chapter Chief - an Eagle Scout - wasn't really able to run a meeting since he didn't know where the Chapter was heading. HUH?!? Phrases like, We're getting there, They need time, We're rebuilding, You don't know where we're at because you just showed up, This used to be a great Chapter, etc were used heavily.

I really think there should be an assigned adult "Adviser" whose job is to attend the meetings and tell the Advisers to sit down and let the Arrowmen run their meeting.

Eagle 92, I find hard to believe you were a s guilty as what I'm talking about. The "Let me just add something..." can be dangerous but at least the Arrowmen are talking. you could see the Chiefs boredom as he stood in front of evryone while the Adviser regaled us.

Maybe the Chief of th efire shuld make occaisional rounds to the meetings or have position to follow-up with active and inactive YOUTH Arrowmen to find out what they think about the activities and health of their Lodge/Chapter.

I hate to complain and would rather get results. What say you out there, how do we impact the Order to get us old guys out of the spotlight and into the shadows. Those that are successful, is there a key that keeps adults from over-involvement or is it just good Adviser selection?