NEPAScouter

My charter organization has supported a troop for 85 years and a pack for 72 years. In my council, and from posts on this forum I know there are units that have been around far longer than my own. For example, one in my own council marked 100 years in 2011. Five or six other units are in their 90s. Five are in their 80's. Which got me thinking...

Does anyone know if there are any handy resources for figuring out (even roughly?) the veteran status distribution of units across the country? How many are over 100? over 95? over 90?, etc.

We're hoping to have alumni (scouts and leaders) at an anniversary dinner from as far back as the mid 1940's, and I'd like to have some perspectives to cite to thank them, the other leaders/scouts, and the charter organization for their "teamwork through time" toward keeping a tradition of scouting sponsorship going all those years since 1928.

Thanks!

Eagle707 scripsit:

NEPA, I think you may have misread my comment. I didn't say anything about donors. I'm completely in favor of this award and have been since it was announced.

D'OH! I had Papadaddy in my reply, then got messed up while I was editing, and put your name in its place. Sorry Eagle707!

Thanks for starting this thread, Skeptic. Like yours, my council has been awarding an "Eminent Eagle" recognition at our annual Eagle Dinner to one local adult who earned the Eagle rank at least 25 years ago and who we feel best exemplifies the life of service and professional achievement we'd like to encourage our new Eagles to emulate. The award recipient is not required to be currently registered in Scouting. Sounds a lot like the intent behind NOESA, with the exception of no 25+ years of required tenure.

Like the DESA, councils aren't required to nominate for it. My council's Eagle Dinner committee decided to stick with what they've been awarding rather than switch over and possibly cause confusion. I think if a council hasn't already been presenting this kind of recognition, the NOESA is as good as any to use.

Eagle707, I'm not too concerned about the danger of giving the award to big-money donors, since the James West, 1910 Fellowship, etc. and the council-level Northern Star recognition can be given to non-Scouters, though I admit the possibility of abuse is always there.

Moxieman, it sounds to me like the balance NESA is trying to strike between DESA and NOESA is the same as between a Lifetime Achievement recognition and a Meritorious Action recognition. A series of meritorious actions in a career might eventually merit a lifetime achievement award. But some single meritorious action shouldn't be overlooked, either, if such public recognition might spur others on to emulate them.

I'm not too sure about the need for linking the number of nominations to the number of Eagle Scouts in a given year, though. One per council per year should be plenty, and I think Papadaddy is spot on with his observation about the challenge of obtaining "nominations which are written well enough to be worthy of the award, and not just 'he's areal good guy'."

Hi folks, sorry for the delay in responding -- had an out-of-town trip.

Basement, yep, we are in agreement on the amount of promotion. It's important that the scouts take ownership of this themselves.

We showed the scouts the medal and the full set of rockers last summer (borrowed them from the council), and told them to talk with their PLs and SM/ASMs whenever they wanted to make specific progress in the program (e.g. organize *more* outdoor activities beyond what we have). The two scouts were recognized for their camping rockers at last September's COH.

Since then, there's been no "adult push," but we have the ASMs keeping track of troop/patrol outdoor activities in the background. We did remind the scouts this month about what merit badges they might want to consider at summer camp for the NOAA program, and we did have to alert some gung-ho outdoorsman fathers that family events could not be counted toward the program, but that's been it in the past year.

As an aside, I've been agitating with our council summer camp administration to recognize scouts who finish a rocker or pin or medal while at summer camp with a suitable individual shout-out at the closing campfire. What better place to get scouts peer-recognized for developing their outdoorsmanship than in the great outdoors around the ol' campfire?

Hi Wood_Owl,

To answer your particular question, yes, with the following differences from "normal".

We hold one-hour weekly meetings (as opposed to the usual 90-minute meetings) through the first week in August, then go to summer camp in the second week of August, then take the last two weeks of August off. We start up 90-minute meetings again on the first meeting night after Labor Day. Except for COH meetings, the scouts wear troop T-shirts to troop meetings during the summer. We get mostly the under-16 younger scouts attending because the older ones get summer evening jobs (local movie theaters). Attendance hovers around 70% of the total troop membership, which is pretty good considering how family vacations, jobs, etc, compete for the scouts' time.

Hey bnelon! Ok, you may be done with your necker issue, but I'm not letting you off the hook on the OP yet ;-).

The OP asked about the popularity of the NOAA program, and you mentioned you had been in touch with the designer of the award. Have you heard anything about how much adoption there has been of the award at any of it's levels? Like I said in my original reply we've had a couple get one camping segment with some pins based on what they had been doing as scouts over the last 5 or 6 years. If we're as serious as I think we are about using the award to spur more outdoor activity among our scouts, my 20-member troop might see the potential for one or two of our crossovers from last year to qualify for the medal no sooner than 4-5 years from now, realistically, if we follow what we think is the spirit of the segment requirements.

I'd hate to see this program go away before then.

Thanks in advance for any info!

Hi bnelon44,

You raise a good point. We do have a troop neckerchief that we wear only for occasions like COHs, Scout Sunday services, Boys' Day in Government, troop meetings and BORs. It's white with gold trim and has a patch identifying our charter organization (we're chartered to a Catholic church). We don't usually wear this neckerchief at summer camp or campouts because, well, it wouldn't wear well. We're not about to change it, though, despite that problem -- 50-year tradition and all that. We figure the troop number on our shirts and on our class B t-shirts gives us a way to define our identity outdoors.

So, that was the thinking behind wanting to look into a NOAA neckerchief just for our troop's outdoor activities.

Interestingly, I agree with you when it comes to the Eagle neckerchiefs, buckles, and other Eagle doodads -- doesn't the Eagle patch or medal do a good enough job showing one's achievement? In the same vein, I'm not a fan of temp patch holders flapping over sewed temporary patches, either. Which is what I can see happening with the "segment and central patch and pin constellation" of the NOAA patch set in our troop.

Guess a little more pondering is needed before I propose this idea to the PLC. I really like the NOAA setup for recognizing Scouts who are excelling in the outdoors, just wish it was better executed than as a temporary patch set.

My troop had two scouts earn the camping segment, one with a gold device and the other with 3 gold devices. This year I thInk we'll have three or four more do the camping segment. There are one or two scouts who will probably also earn the aquatics segment.

Last year was when we started promoting this award program. I think it's a good way to bring recognition to the outdoor method of Scouting. We're gradually trying to promote the medal as a parallel recognition program to Eagle for the older boys.

A minor issue I have with the patch+segments portion of the award is that it looks as though scouts aren't keen on wearing them as temporary patches. I'm looking into getting neckerchiefs made and having the scouts wear the pentagon patch and segments and pins on that. Kind of like a varsity letter for outdoors. They'd wear it at summer camp, and at class-A events during camp outs.

Welcome from a fellow PEE-AYE guy, PABill!

All the suggestions sound like I could try some version of them in my situation. I'll especially try to get some kind of post-cathedral recognition practice going so that scouts back in the troop get to see the recipients recognized, and get the counselors in front of the scouts at a meeting.

Thanks for your advice!

Does anyone have advice on how to encourage scouts to work on the Catholic religious emblems Ad Altare Dei (AAD) and Pope Pius XII (PPXII)? My troop is sponsored by a Roman Catholic parish, and the pastor and I would like to encourage more of the troop's catholic members to work on these awards.

Here's some background:

Our troop regularly holds a Scout Sunday service at the parish church, and is pretty integrated into the life of the parish through 3 service projects each year. About 70% of the troop membership is catholic.

The parish has a pack, and we don't have too many problems with getting the cubs interested in working on Parvuli Dei, but there I think the fact that parents are expected to work with the cubs makes it easier for cubs to earn the award given that the parents are also interested. So, the catholic boys who cross over from the pack tend to have earned Parvuli Dei already if their parents are interested.

In the troop, we'll give each interested Boy Scout an AAD or PPXII workbook free of charge, and put them in contact with counselors from the local diocese. The counselors (a married couple) meet with the group of candidate scouts outside of the troop meetings, and we like it that way because it would otherwise detract from the candidates' participation at the troop meetings.

Each December our troop committee chaplain aid approaches each eligible scout and reminds him about the religious emblems, so that he can start working with a counselor over the January-April time period. The awards' boards of review are held in the diocese in May, and the awards are presented in the diocese's cathedral (not in the local church, like Parvuli Dei) in June, at a time when we can't get the troop to attend as a unit to cheer on their peers.

If a scout is even mildly interested, we hand him a workbook and counselor phone contact immediately. We also ask him over the course of January whether he's contacted the counselor. It's at this time that things usually fall through -- the scout keeps forgetting how to use a cell phone. We won't do this calling and scheduling for him because, well, it's supposed to be *his* medal and *his* interest in his faith that we're talking about, not the adults'.

Last year we had three scouts work on AAD, (two were brothers), and this year the same three are working on PPXII. But these are the first in 5 years to have gotten interested in the awards, and I'd like to get more boys interested more often.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to discuss these religious awards with boy scouts so as to motivate them to go for the medals on their own outside of a troop meeting? Thanks!

Talk about staying active in Scouting after earning Eagle. He attended the 2010 Jamboree and was the scout who introduced Mike Rowe at the closing show. I knew he looked familiar! He was one of the 3 youth emcees at the closing show.

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2010/07/mike-with-an-accomplished-scout/

Congratulations to Roland!

Here's what the Pennsylvania BSA specialty license plate looks like:

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/images/plates/bsa.jpg

All great promotions for Scouting! But the PA ones don't support "vanity quotes." I understand that they are issued only with numbers in numerically increasing order.

Roadkill, I hope the plates help the Michigan BSA program a lot!

I think the forum would benefit from nested thread support that lets users see what posts are responses to responses (to responses, and so on...). I think some of the heat in some of the discussions on here comes from users not being able to see what post someone is responding to within a thread.

I usually skim over OA threads since I'm a non-member who, as a youth, was in a troop where OA wasn't promoted. But this thread's thoughtful string of ideas primed my engine with some questions and observations. Hope they're helpful!

1) I'm all for service to camps, council, units, etc., but from my non-member perspective, what is it about OA that would enable me to do more for these entities than I'm already able to do as a non-member? I think this is the general question I have as an adult seeking answers from m3sd3's and SeattlePioneer's ideas.

2) I understand that OA has tried to move toward the "Honor Society" concept and away from the "Honor Campers" concept. Some posters here would like to move back. As an outsider, I think moving back would be a good idea, especially if OA encourages more outdoor activity of its members, either within lodge activities or at the broader unit level.

3) Someone mentioned the need for a JTE for Lodges. I'd like to suggest one measure of the "honorability" of the camping by Lodge members would be how far youth members progress in the National Outdoor Activity Award program.

Happy New Year!

Yes, it could have been authoritarian, and some might see it that way. I may have drunk the koolaid (hope not!) but the goal as I've been told is to see units make an effort. Things out of their control aren't going to be held against them. What the council wants to see is active troops with good programs for their situation, not necessarily huge troops or high recruitment in areas where there just aren't enough boys for large growth. They're more interested in helping a troop or pack work at some kind of improvement than summarily terminating them.

Thanks Once_An_Eagle_Always_An_Eagle, for reviving this thread. My unit was, and is, a "decent" unit, but my fellow leaders recognize that there's room for improvement, and it helps to see some concrete guidelines from National to get a better idea of where we can direct our improvement efforts. We're an old unit (83 years) that was very strong up until the mid 1990s, but hit a rough patch of about 10 years of having only 5 or 6 members. Over the past 6 years we've gradually built membership up to 23 scouts. Although some of us "old timers" from the troop's earlier salad days came back to help, it's essentially a new troop. JTE helps all our leaders start at a common point of reference when we're discussing how/whether to improve, because the memory of the "rough days" still haunts us, and we don't want to go backwards. The chartering organization lost its parochial school, and we'd hate to see the youth activities in the parish dry up any further.

On a related note, in my council JTE is being used to identify units that don't meet Bronze levels this rechartering cycle (December 2011) as "flagged units." They will be encouraged to work closely with committed unit commissioners to improve themselves over the next year, but if there is no evidence of improvement (note, they don't have to make Bronze, just show improvement), their charters will not be renewed at the end of 2012. The council sees it as a process of "protecting the brand."

For example, if a troop isn't getting outdoors, or having boy-led activities, or making progress on using the PLC and the patrol method, or helping their chartering organizations with at least a service project in a year, what impression of scouting is it making on the public?

I've used the $0.99 Animated Rope Knots to show not just the picture of a knot but also the process of tying them. About the only criticism I have of it is that for some knots the movies showing the tying process run a little quickly.

The free Planets is a good app to show planet and constellation positions. Its 3D sky view is very good for the price! I also use the free Space Station Lite to get realtime tracking of the International Space Station when we're out waiting for it to appear for flyovers.

Hi jtswestark,

We get about 2 scouts per year trying to earn Astronomy at summer camp. When you have a good counselor who'll conduct "night under the stars" sleepouts, I find that gets them interested. There are a couple of iPad apps out there that use the GPS location to show the night sky, labelled with constellation names, so that as you hold the screen overhead, the screen is supposed to show the correct labels with the portion of the sky it lines up with. Haven't used them though. I do use the Planets iPhone app to help figure out when what is visible. For the free price, it has a decent 3-D view of the sky.

I've personally found that when I show the Scouts Saturn through a small telescope, they think it's cool how 3-D and real the planet looks with its rings, instead of the flat whitish disks that the other planets show. This summer, Saturn is out until 3:00 AM. Talking about the Mars rovers works, too, especially if you've done some robotics-kit stuff.

Pictures of the characters? Not really helpful in my experience, but I do get more mileage out of the "connect the dots" pictures showing what stars belong to a constellation, and then using a bright flashlight at night to point out the stars. Just make sure you hold it above everyones' heads and that no one uses a light during the nighttime viewing session except if they are red lights to preserve night vision.

Gern, you forgot to mention the problem for the poor scouts who camp above the Arctic Circle or the Antarctic Circle either when the sun doesn't rise or when it doesn't set! :-)

On the weekend before Memorial Day weekend, my troop helped the local veterans place flags on the CO parish's cemeteries. It was also on that weekend that the troop took a trip to Valley Forge to learn about what our country's first veterans experienced at the low point of our battle for independence. As is our long-standing (40+ years) custom, on Memorial Day itself we marched with the CO parish cub pack in the local town's parade.

Sounds like a well-planned project that your grand-nephew will be able to look back on with pride. I'm especially impressed that it falls outside the "construction zone" category of project (not that there's anything wrong with those!). I wish him and his team all the best!

I give the official requirements a big thumbs up. I really like how the requirements for building a robot are platform-neutral. Lego is a natural for this, but there are other kits (cheap) out there these days that offer enough flexibility for meeting requirement 4. I also like how the fourth requirement expects the scout to confer with the merit badge counselor on specifying a task for a robot to perform *before* building the robot. Sure, there's always the possibility an MBC will say, "Oh, you wanted it to grab a foam ball, turn around, and drop the ball, but all it does is turn around? Sure, I'll pass 'ya" but if we're staying honest to the intent, it's a good way of having the Scout confer with the MBC once or twice before the whole merit badge is passed. It'll help teach scouts that even allegedly simple actions (and not just robotics!) benefit from a process of exploratory redesign and retesting, not just a follow-the-recipe exercise (I hope).

I noticed navigation is not mentioned in requirement 2, but I'm guessing that it is subsumed into "mobility." If it's not, that'll be a nitpick for me. I've seen too many FIRST robotics competitions where there's too much emphasis on programming inhumanly precise timing into the robot's fixed-duration moves to navigate a course instead of having it occasionally figure out where it is on a course.

Sorry for getting all nerdy, but this is one professor who's been waiting an awful long time for this merit badge!

Thanks for straightening me out, Moosetracker. I didn't notice the reference to the crossover depletion. While I'm in favor of the JTE objectives in principle, it's amazing the number of unintentional gotcha's that seem to have sneaked in to the measures. Oh well, back to the thread....

@pchadbo: (and, I guess, moosetracker, too):

I was surprised to hear that the JTE gold requirements would lead to you needing to get 31 *more* scouts recruited beyond the 35 you already have, so I went to do some more research (my own troop and pack were just going over the standards and goals) on this, and now have a question to make sure I'm not missing something.

Item #3 on "Building Boy/Cub Scouting" says Have an increase in membership or be larger than the average size troop/pack. The levels then say:

Bronze (Troop): Have a net gain of one member over last year, or have at least 14 members.

Bronze (Pack): Have a net gain of one member over last year, or have at least 19 members.

Silver: Increase youth members by 5%.

Gold: Increase youth members by 10%.

(Silver and Gold are the same for both Packs and Troops).

Now, my current understanding of this is that for any objective that a unit intends to get points for, the unit first must meet the Bronze level. If only the Bronze level is met, the unit gets the "Bronze points." After that point, the other levels are considered inclusively. That is, meeting Silver level would include the "achievement" that got the unit a bronze point level. But, the unit would only get the points for the highest level it qualifies at (in this example, no Silver+Bronze points, just Silver points).

So, in your pack's case, if you had 35 youth, for Bronze points you'd already be there because your unit has more than 19 youth. To be at Silver, my understanding says you'd need 35x0.05 = 1.75 = 2 new youth. To be at Gold, I would have assumed you'd need 35x0.1 = 3.5 = 4 new youth. (assuming one rounds up when the decimal ends in 5 through 9)

I don't see where doubling the size of your pack is implied by the Gold achievement level. If I'm misunderstanding things here, please let me know. Thanks!