NEPAScouter

Troy, I read the proposal and you clearly worked hard on getting the facts together in making your case!

Here are my takes on the proposal, in the spirit of giving helpful feedback on the "knot mechanics" in the document. On the "con" side, the proposal's differentiation of "bronze," "gold," and "silver" merit badge knots is a little confusing for "quick visual translation" in that, for example, one could be wearing a "bronze knot" to represent two *silver* palms, or some combination of bronze, gold, and silver. Of course, maybe the knot names are all that need to be changed to address this.

The "red/white/blue" knot's requirement about earning all currently available merit badges is ambiguous, and your own observation on the "achievers" page about the BSA adding and removing merit badges bears this out, so I know I'm not pointing out anything new to you there. However, the BSA's periodic institution of new merit badges could play out badly for scouts when this happens just before their 18th birthday. It could be a week, a month, or even two months before their 18th birthday, some new time-intensive merit badge is introduced, and boom! the scout who formerly had all the merit badges might no longer qualify for the "red/white/blue" knot, through no lack of initiative on his part. Since this kind of requirement is difficult to evaluate uniformly (no cutoff before 18 would completely fix the problem), this is one of the biggest "cons" for the proposal, in my view.

On the "pro" side, I think you make an excellent photographic case that the palm-pin system physically breaks down when more than 4 pins have to be worn on the eagle square knot. But I tend to think it argues for a different device rather than for another knot.

OR, just to stir things up, maybe National should just increase the merit badges required for each palm, thus thinning out the number that would go on the Eagle knot. It happened briefly to the Eagle rank itself in the mid 70's when 24 merit badges were required instead of 21! If the palm requirement on merit badges were doubled to 10 merit badges per palm instead of 5, then one silver palm would represent 30 merit badges beyond Eagle, two would represent 60 beyond, and three silver palms would represent 90 beyond Eagle. 100 extra merit badges, which is, give or take, the most one could earn, would require no more than 4 palms (3 silver and one bronze).

I highly doubt National would ever make that modification to the palm requirements, but it's interesting to consider for completeness alongside the alternative device idea, your knot proposal, and the status quo.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents now that our visit has happened. The visiting team drove an RV with a lot of Scouting artwork painted on the exterior. I'm sure it must have caught a lot of drivers' eyes on the highways! I made sure to get a picture of myself with that vehicle right behind me!

As for the visit itself, well, the team made a good presentation on the significance of the tour and the print that was presented to our council, but I was hoping for more words of inspiration directed at the volunteers who attended. I got the patch, but wasn't particularly impressed by its quality.

On a more positive note, our council used the event to good advantage with the press that showed up -- we managed to announce a list of all the public activities we'll be holding in observance of the 100th anniversary and get the list in the news.

My unit recently received an invitation from an alumnus to camp on his property near A.P. Hill during the Jamboree. Naturally, we're curious about visiting the Jamboree. Does anyone on the forum have experience with this from earlier Jamborees?

I want our scouts to know what to expect if they decide to go on this camping trip. We understand that it will not be the same experience as if the youth or adults were official Jamboree participants, but how different will it be? Would it be like going to a summer camp for a day and seeing scouts doing all sorts of fun things, but you can only watch them? I certainly expect activities like COPE would be out of bounds for visitors, but are there any activities in which visitors are allowed to participate?

Hi AlabamaDan,

It's my opinion that a video experience (even a Wii-based one) will never replace the real outdoor activities of the BSA.

The jury's still out in my mind, though, as to whether it is possible to create a video experience that will get scout-age boys who haven't had the benefit of being recruited by some of the great recruiters on this site to want to try the real thing by joining the BSA. This is the "recruitment market" that xlpanel and others have been expressing doubts about. I'm not sure whether it was the market OGE had in mind when he started the thread.

There's also another potential market, which I'll call the "in-house market." These are boys already in Scouting who might enjoy using a video game to challenge themselves mentally on stuff scouts should know - like first aid, nature facts, etc. This was the market that the Northeastern Pennsylvania Council had in mind when developing the "Goose Pond" video game.

There was also the goal of promoting the camp and the goal of giving scouts and scouters some way to stay in touch with the camp electronically over the years...especially out-of-council units. There is a whole "promotainment" industry out there, though developers in the field usually deal in creating flash and web games for upcoming movies.

Frankly, I would be surprised if the Goose Pond game got any non-Scout who finds it on the web to *join* a scout troop. It incorporates too much scout knowledge. Will it stir interest in the "in-house market?" Well, we'll see as the summer progresses...

>>The problem, as I see it, is that we don't promote our actions. Scouts aren't highly visible in many communities anymore. I think we need to be more visible.

Just wanted to bump this to see if anyone has tried the Goose Pond game ( http://gpsrcd.nepabsa.org ) and has feedback to share. The game is a big download, so I thought I'd post on a weekend when everyone might have time to leave the computer in "download mode."

Thanks Clyde. Most of the reply posts in this thread indicate that there seems to be a bit of a problem in getting advance notice out on this. Since I first posted this thread I've found this website by the organizers that describes the whole "Century of Values" tour program: http://www.acenturyofvalues.org The schedule for the nationwide tour can be found there as well.

A look at the arrival times shows that most of the tour bus arrivals in my area are around 9:30 AM or 2:30 PM. Not the best time to get a crowd together to greet the bus. Well, on the bright side, at least our visit is happening after most schools are out.

SctDad, how long would you say the visit lasted? Was it the kind of event that only scouters/pros would appreciate, or would youth members get something out of it? Thanks!

'm serving on my council's BSA centennial committee, and we recently learned that there is a set of "Century of Values" Tour Teams conducting a nationwide road trip to visit every council to present a copy of a painting commissioned by the Detroit Area Council's centennial committee. How high-profile have these visits been? We're supposed to be visited on June 30th. If your council was visited, how did the visit go?

Here a link about the activity:

http://www.acenturyofvalues.org/media/letter_from_national_bsa.pdf

In Northeastern Pennsylvania Council we've put a LOT of local Scout history research out, though we haven't put a one-book history of the council out. It's more of a collection:

We combined some council history with the history of our council's boy scout camp. The book is called, appropriately enough, "A History of Goose Pond Scout Reservation." Written by Tom Kameroski, it covers 1920-2007 and has a DVD full of 80 minutes of rescued film footage from the 1920s and 1930s. It was a pretty successful effort because a lot of older Scouters came forward and shared recollections and photos. Pictures are a must for any Scouting history effort, because in this day and age a lot of younger Scouters and Scouts simply wouldn't believe what things were like "back in the day." The book can be downloaded for $10.00 from LuLu at http://www.lulu.com/content/1746661 If you want the DVD, I'd recommend ordering the softcover book from the NEPA council site (www.nepabsa.org).

Tom is a really dedicated historian. He dug up the old minutes of the council board meetings of the Scranton Area council (1928-1946) and got them published as well. The minutes don't always make for riveting reading, but they do show how a burgeoning coal economy promoted Scouting in Northeastern Pennsylvania. The book is available for $3.00 download at LuLu.com at http://www.lulu.com/content/1307831

Tom also put out "Ahmeek Lodge." This is the plan used for the Scranton Council's first Boy Scout summer camp at Goose Pond Scout Reservation in 1920. It includes administration, program, and facilities details. Again, it's at LuLu at http://www.lulu.com/content/1514944

asm 411 wrote:

How many times have I read "A scout can not fail a BOR." Well that is unless it is an EBOR - "..he is asked to return and told the reasons for his failure to qualify." Shouldn't he have a regular board of review, wouldn't his feedback be of value to the troop? Then some sort of official review of requirements or is this event just badly named?

Hi asm,

My understanding of *all* BORs (not just Eagle) is that there is always the possibility that a scout could be told to return for a followup BOR. And in all those cases, the scout must be told the reasons and what he needs to do to improve himself for the followup BOR before he can advance to the next rank. Doesn't sound like EBOR is different in that regard. I know in my troop this sometimes happens for second class, first class, etc.

I was talking with a friend in professional Scouting and heard the same thing from him. Proposals were definitely accepted by the "Innovation Council" to create merit badges for Robotics, GIS/GPS, and SCUBA. Of course, there's been no official word on when the badges would be entered into the official list. A little more searching on the web hasn't turned up any requirement lists, but the http://ideas.scouting.org site is where some of those proposed merit badge ideas appeared.

Depending on how cheaply one can get experience with a robot kit and on what scouts will have to do with a robot, I can see the Robotics merit badge exciting the imaginations of today's scouts the way Space Exploration's rocketry requirements appealed to scouts in the late 1960's when it came out.

Our troop and pack attend a Mass at the catholic church that charters us. We enter in a procession carrying both units' flags. Both units' members serve as altar servers and liturgy readers in uniform. The pastor generally shapes his sermon to include references to Scouting, and acknowledges our work over the past year. Over the past several years, catholic scouts from another troop in our town have begun attending the Mass, and several of our members have started attending the other troop's protestant church CO's service later in the day.

Well, we finally got a free downloadable version of "Goose Pond: A Timeless Adventure" online. The "freebie" version covers about 1/6 of the whole game. The whole thing is done in QuickTime (an installer is included if you don't already have it). It runs on Mac and PC computers. It is a 230 MB download...

http://gpsrcd.nepabsa.org

Get ready to swat some mosquitos, build scout spirit, avoid skunks, learn some merit badge stuff, put out fires, climb a COPE tower, solve some puzzles, and.... find tickets for the National Jamboree bus.

1. No.

2. Yes, Eagle Class of 1979.

I answered the questions as posed, but I wanted to add my two bits:

a) If the Eagle rank patch *were* allowed to be worn until 21, then I'd ask why not all other ranks until 21?

b) If part of the reason for some voting "yes" to question 1 is that others don't understand the significance of the square knot, then maybe it's more a question of educating others than revamping the insignia guide.

A few years ago I had a scout in my troop tell me after he received Eagle two months before his 18th birthday that he was disappointed he couldn't wear his Eagle rank patch after 18. He knew there was the "tiny" (his word) knot insignia. I told him that there are many adults in Scouting who would be only too happy to wear the tiny knot if they could go back in time and do some things differently, and that he should proudly wear that knot to show he is an adult Eagle instead of a youth Eagle. I encouraged him to see the change in the patch as a further indication of his maturation into an adult who can give back to Scouting since youth CANNOT wear that knot.

Some might call this "spinning," but two months later when I warmly congratulated him on becoming an adult ASM, he wanted to know where to get that knot! YMMV

I'll agree with Scoutmaster52 (though you can tell from my username that I'm very locally biased!) about Goose Pond Scout Reservation. It's a 520+ acre camp (founded in 1920) in northeastern Pennsylvania and has an old-style camp feel to it. The camp staff is really dedicated and the program is definitely good for both older and younger scouts. The Pathways program for new Scouts is terrific -- it brings together troop Scout leaders and new Scouts. The non-merit-badge program has a "Swamp Romp," a Thursday evening "Adventure Race," and many patrol-based activities.

If you're into Scouting history, there's a post in its dining hall that was signed by Green Bar Bill in 1992 at the last Wood Badge course he ever attended in the US. The 1923 building itself is pretty colorful with 900+ plaques from troops all over the eastern US starting in 1951.

Although the camp is old, they're not averse to 21st century technology: they have online merit badge class registration, which should come in handy for an out-of-town unit like yours.

Here's the camp's council's website if you're interested in learning more about the camp: http://www.nepabsa.org

We're a troop that was founded in 1928. When our most recent Scoutmaster stepped down after 9 years of service we presented him with a copyright 1928 Scoutmaster's Handbook boxed in a wood+glass case. He had known the original Scoutmaster of the troop and we presented it as a way of saying Thank You for continuing a long line of excellent service.

http://www.vbvm.org/troop21

We had a lot of fun reaching out to veteran Scouters and their relatives for pictures from "way back" for our photo album!

Hi OGE!

Now I understand how you know those fellows from NEPA. Alas, I was not at the Powder Horn at Goose Pond. But, knowing that you were, I bet you understand the need for a searchable plaque database on the GPSR disc!

Yes to all of the above fine Scouters!

It doesn't cover *everything* that's been suggested here for a "Boy Scout Video Game," but how is this for a start?

http://gpsrcd.nepabsa.org