BartHumphries

So, anyone have any recommendations to make Citizenship in the World not be boring?

You know, it's really easy to show that you, as a member of a "children's camp" have not been named in a central registry case as the perpetrator of child abuse of child neglect, because you are a Scouter and your Council is supposed to run that particular background check on all adult Scouters. So that's NealOnWheels' second objection out of the way.

That being said, Troop185 said that not only was he from Michigan, he owned a "children's camp" and that it doesn't apply to Scout troops. He suggested the simple expedient of picking up the phone and asking them. I favor that idea.

If you don't want to use it, more power to you -- whatever floats your boat. Other people don't have the same opinion, though, which is cool, whatever floats their boats too.

You need to move to a "new" camp site every night and the boys need to plan the five-day trip, with you all hiking at least six miles every day, so that the whole thing meets the requirements for the backpacking merit badge. Also, see the First Year program I put together at:

http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=314335&p=2 (the third-to-last post, the last post in that thread by me).

I'm sure someone else has already said it, but:

I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint.

People have been complaining that the youth of "today" just aren't as good as we were, or as our parents were, or as people were in more distant times, for almost three thousand years now. I think most of us just don't remember that (by and large) we weren't that much better than the kids coming through now. Anyway, as I understand it the general goal is to get people to first class within a year of joining Boy Scouts. This is a good schedule: http://www.boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/1st-scout-schedule.asp Boys who reach First Class within a year are, according to National's stats, far more likely to continue in Scouting (both on to further ranks in Scouting and also to continue later on as adult volunteers).

I do think some things have become easier, that we don't "trust" the boys enough to do some activities that we used to allow. Boys Life magazines from the 50's had advertisements for tires for the motorcycles that boys apparently had back then, there were ads for ammo and guns. I don't think the changes in things like that are due to Scouting, though, that's just our society.

The Camping merit badge is a whole magnitude more difficult than the Wilderness Survival merit badge in my opinion.

The Camping merit badge requires you to camp 20 days/nights, memorize the seven Leave No Trace Principles and the Outdoor Code, basically plan an entire campout (how to get there, what to do when you're there, meals, what everyone else will do, all the equipment needed), do at least two "big" activities sometime while camping and basically know everything else there is to know about camping, not to mention the conservation project.

The Wilderness Survival merit badge requires you to camp a single night (albeit in a shelter that you build) while following Leave No Trace principles (so if the forest is deep with pine needles you can't dig down to where they're matted, you can only take the top inch or so and then those have to be replaced afterward, etc.), you have to have discussed general survival principles (basically, take care of stuff that'll kill you tonight first, like panicking, bleeding, exposure to the elements, then signal for help and wait to be found while possibly working on getting water). I mean, the book basically specifically requires a person to discuss why it's "unwise" to eat anything that you didn't pack in yourself -- any sort of discussion as to what sort of plants in the area are good to eat isn't even on the horizon. It's unwise, remember? The only difficult part is possibly the "demonstrate three fire building techniques" part, depending on what methods you're using (permanganate/glycerin, road flares, etc.)

If anything, Wilderness Survival should be a prerequisite to the Camping merit badge. That's my opinion based on how things "are" (in my opinion). Sure, surviving in the wilderness "should" be tougher than car camping a lot and going on bike rides and day hikes, but the requirements as currently written don't really seem to support that. Again, this is my opinion, not some established rule written in stone or something.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

If you feel it's no longer appropriate to have her handle merit badges, then tell the kids that.

Without more information, though, I think it's all no big deal if she's a mertid badge counselor. As long as she's teaching everything that she's supposed to teach and otherwise being a good merit badge counselor, then it doesn't matter what troop she's affiliated with. Sure, you don't want them around your regular program, but the fishing merit badge? Sure, why not, as long as all proper things are followed (two-deep leadership, etc.).

Summer camp season, for me, ended today. I've been the Outdoor Skills (Scoutcraft) Director and Wilderness Survival has been one of the merit badges in my area. I agree with dkurtenbach's statement on merit badges.

The Wilderness Survival merit badge is not really a wilderness survival merit badge, it's a "how to sit there and wait to be rescued, while taking steps to make sure you can survive for a night or two while you wait". I mean, the types of plants that you can eat in the wilderness isn't that strange of a topic to me. I'd love to teach more about that, but the merit badge pamphlet specifically has me discuss why it is not wise to eat edible plants/wildlife in a survival situation. It's sort of my job to discourage true "survival" -- something like what happened in the book Hatchet isn't even on the horizon in that merit badge.

I think there's a vast difference between various merit badges as far as difficulty goes. Take the Nature merit badge, for instance. Holy toledo it's a tough one! There's no way on earth that anyone is going to accomplish that merit badge in a week of regular summer camp anywhere unless they've basically completed the merit badge before they come. Seriously, go look at the requirements. Pioneering is a difficult merit badge for young scouts -- splicing, lashing, it's difficult for them to wrap their head around it, let alone their fingers. Wilderness Survival is an easy merit badge.

Even the "memorize the seven priorities" requirement is easy, but that might be because I (and my counselors) teach hand signals for each step and we keep referring to the priorities while we do every other requirement in the merit badge. For instance, in the different environments, we run through all seven priorities, etc.

Yeah, the black oval patch isn't part of the BSA uniform.

Anyone have any picture links of what these look like?

The round LNT Trainer patch is the "position of responsibility" badge for those boys currently serving as "the" LNT Trainer for their patrol/troop/whatever. Like all position of responsibility patches such as patrol leader, bugler, chaplain aide, etc., it is not meant to be worn when you're not currently serving in that position.

At this time, there is no official BSA LNT patch of any kind for anyone other than the boys who are serving as LNT Trainers as their position of responsibility for Star/Life/Eagle advancement. I think that's kind of a shame, but that's a story for another day.

At home, or on a silk shirt where I can't use a shirt pressing machine (because the shirt can't get wet), I open up the whole collar flat and then iron it face down. On a shirt pressing machine, you stand the collar up and then the machine takes care of it.

You open the whole collar up and then press the whole thing flat. When you then fold the collar over, it will then naturally fold where the collar is sewn to the shirt. This also makes it really easy to press the tips nice and flat because you have a wide surface to press.

If a person tries to press the collar into a fold where the collar is sewn on themselves, they won't quite be able to push the cloth down tight enough next to where the collar is sewn to the shirt and the collar will end up creased too far away from where it should be creased.

The worst shirts to press are those women's shirts where the collar wing things are sewn shut and you still have to try to make the points look nice, but then women's shirts are basically the worst thing to press for several reasons.

Those plastic things that come in some shirts generally keep the collars pointed pretty nicely without much ironing needed, although as the cloth wears thin their outline will start to show.

I used to work in a drycleaners. I've spent just over five years pressing clothes over the last 16 years (working multiple jobs several times), and for six months earlier this year after a few years doing other things. The following is my opinion. Some people disagree with me and because the customer is always right I wouldn't say this to a customer, but this is my opinion.

A lot of people like starch and request it, but there's a difference between how a dry cleaner presses and how an ordinary person presses. Usually, when a person wants something starched, they just want it pressed like everything else -- when it's slightly damp. Having worked for three different dry cleaner owners, with over 60 years experience drycleaning between them, I can say that usually when someone gets something "starched" it doesn't really get starched, it just gets pressed like everything else (meaning pressed when slightly wet since a lot of places actually launder and dryclean everything, instead of just drycleaning).

Usually, when people in their homes like using starch, it's just because they aren't using enough steam when they press their clothes. If you use enough steam, then you can almost get most everything to look the way it looks after a drycleaner uses a machine to press it. For instance, some people use dry irons that don't have any water in them because they have old irons and don't want any water spots on their clothes and talk about how awesome their clothes look when starched -- because the starch is basically the only "water" that's being introduced to the clothes and clothes that have been laundered should be slightly damp when pressed (not really damp, you want to toss it into the dryer for about five minutes or so after it comes out of the washer).

Basically, new clothes don't need starch -- ironing alone makes them look marvelous. The exception is pleats and older (thinner) fabric.

Starch makes clothes look really sharp, but it also preserves any wrinkles that are introduced. Try putting on clothes then going about all day in them -- without starch, you'll still look fairly sharp, but with starch you'll either have sharply pressed wrinkles or lines where the starch has broken down from constant "bending".

Take karate uniforms, for example, or anything made out of good linen. They're a pain to press and you can only really press them with a machine at a drycleaners (and not the ordinary pressing machines), but once pressed they have creases that could almost be used to carve a wooden staff.

Other people disagree with me and I'm fine with that. When people would exclaim how good their sharply pressed "starched" (when no starch was actually used), every owner I've met (and I've met more than the three I've worked for) would just respond affirmatively, that the clothes do indeed look sharp.

"Light starch" for a man's shirts or trousers is really a euphemism for "No starch at all, just clean and press them the same as about everything else".

You might try not dressing them solely in loincloths. Sure, that's accurate for some tribes, but not all. Try "breechcloth and leggings" which is basically pants under a loincloth. I don't know about what tribal members wear out where you live (since, again, tribal customs were not in any way uniform across the US), but for the tribes down here in Southern CA, most wear more clothes than a simple loincloth while engaging in ceremonial dances.

Tell them what's going to happen so that they aren't surprised/scared. Tell them that it's a solemn ceremony that you've all put together and that they will stare at the kids to "look into their character" and that the kids should just stare ahead and basically ignore it.

"There is a good chance they're already in the CPS system. I need to give the elementary guidance counselor a quick call." Don't bother, they shouldn't be talking to you anyway. You already have expressed "reasonable doubt" multiple times -- it's time to pass it on to your COR and Council Ex.

That being said, we don't know exactly what the felony is for. You're closest, you'd know more about the person than any of us could know.

I almost had a felony once. I went to a gaming convention (I was running games for Wizards of the Coast and they were paying for my hotel stay, etc.). At the last moment, I decided to take a pirate costume for the masquerade on the last day of the convention. My suitcase was already completely packed (mostly with books to run the games with), so I threw the costume into my backpack. When I went through the airport, in 2003, I think, the X-ray tech saw the fake pirate jewelry (which is all made from wires and paste, you know) and the outline of the fake wooden Pirates of the Caribbean gun and I got pulled out of line pretty quickly. They arrested me with a felony charge of "Replica of a firearm in an airport secure ares." Thankfully, they didn't actually press charges afterward and so I can still say that I have never had a felony conviction.

Anyway, as long as there's no youth protection issues, if a person "paid the price" and you think they're a good guy, I personally wouldn't pay that much attention to the felony charge (although I would possibly try to minimize future temptation, like not putting a grand larceny 3 convicted person in charge of the treasury, etc.).

However, you already have "reasonable doubt", you've expressed it multiple times, it's time to just go report it and put it into your COR's and Council Executive's hands.

You can publicly claim whatever you want -- having an identical patch/pin made is easy-peasy. 1st point, though, a Scout is trustworthy. I think they mostly make "restricted" those things that might be easy for a parent to buy since they don't really understand what it is they're buying for their child like OA stuff, Eagle stuff before they actually finish the Eagle paperwork that's sat around for the past two years after finishing every other Eagle requirement...

I think this is the real story: National wants to push the Centennial hats before we get too far away from the Centennial. Thus, unless you really go looking, you're most likely going to see the Centennial hats as about the "only" hats you can buy.

You know, it could be, if you're all eating your own food, that he didn't really bring any food himself and is embarrassed that others might see that he's basically eating nothing. Maybe, in order to take the "time off" to come out with you all, he works twice as hard the few days before and is really sleep deprived -- enough that he can be up and awake and going when he needs to but just tired in his bones and wants to sleep. Perhaps he's more shy than you think and just doesn't make new friends very easily.

If you did the crime and paid the time, as long as there's no "youth protection" issues, I don't think the Council will turn him down. They might, but if I was someone in your Council, I'd kick it back to you and ask you what you thought since you're closer and would better know what the person is like and whether there are likely to be any continuing issues. If you ask the Council to reject it, if I was on the Council, I'd reject it.

That being said, if you were a regular person (not a Scout leader) and were "this close" to calling Child Protection Services or whatever they're called where you live, then I'd say to do it, mentioning the benadryl, etc. In California, at least, they accept "anonymous" calls/referrals. In the long run, you'll sleep better if you don't have to "live in fear" that something is happening to the boys that shouldn't be.

However, you are a Scout leader so you are required to report suspected (or known) child abuse to your Committee/COR and the local (most likely district) Scouting executive. You sound like you have "reasonable suspicion" which means that it is "objectively reasonable for a person to entertain a suspicion, based upon facts that could cause a reasonable person in a like position, drawing, when appropriate, on his or her training and experience, to suspect child abuse or neglect" (which is the rule in CA -- I don't know what it's like in Ohio).

In CA, this wouldn't result in an arrest, CPS would work with the family to educate them about how to better raise their children.

"The laziness got so bad that they wouldn't even boil the water for the raman, they'd just knaw on the dry brick of noodles and chug water."

Well, I sort of like the taste of dry ramen noodles. They aren't too starchy like macaroni/spaghetti noodles, they sort of have a (very) mild somewhat sweet taste. I don't eat them and chug water, I just eat them plain. That being said, I would never consider this a meal, it's just a snack. Those boys sound like they need some help learning how to cook simple meals that taste incredible. One thing that I've found really helps as far as motivating people to cook is to stop by some discount store and buy a few teflon-coated pots/pans to simplify meal cleanup. If the pot cleans up easily then suddenly the focus is on the food instead of on the cleanup. After you've had to take steel wool to a few pots, you start seriously looking for ways to get a meal without having to clean the pot (which is also a useful skill, like double-boiling inside ziploc freezer baggies that're in a pot or something). Try this 3-pot & frying pan set for $20 from Walmart: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Classics-7-Piece-Nonstick-Cookware-Set/5723665

What is this Green Bar? I've heard of Green Bar Bill, but not a patrol having someone who is a Green Bar.

Anyway, in my opinion, people who say that boys "aren't capable" of leading a troop have boys who have no experience leading -- of course they aren't as capable leaders as the adults. Instead of surprising the boys one night with, "Ok, plan out the next three months right now on the spur of the moment," give them the three Troop Program Features books and tell them to choose one of the month-long programs and work off that. Give them a sheet to fill out, times for each segment of each meeting, etc. After they do that a couple or a few times, then they'll really know how a program is "supposed" to work and they'll be more ready to actually start planning things out themselves. Don't just throw them in from the deep end, ease them into it.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

Which is exactly why I stopped checking eBay -- price gougers who just wanted too much for the jackets. It's not as though they're anything more than simple pieces of felt. It's not as though they're made from different layers sewn together or like they have an inner lining or something or like there's anything (in the absence of a Scout affiliation) that's really valuable about them. I'm glad the scoutshop has them for less than $30 including shipping right now, as I wouldn't pay more than that price for one.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

I've always wanted a red wool Scout jacket that fit me but there was no way I was spending $100. Sure, I could wear my dad's old one, but it's a 42. I just measured myself with a sewing tape and holding it at 38, it just fits around my chest at nipple height, with enough room to get two fingers in. I think I know what I'll be buying a couple weeks from now, presuming that they're still in the store then...

I've tried eBay before, but I think the people selling the jackets are bidding against me. I used to go check 'em out regularly on eBay, but I got tired of losing the bid every time when it went over how much I was willing to pay for it, so after a while I just stopped bidding. I'm really happy that they're in the scout store now at such a nice price. (This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

Yes, that is indeed how that particular segment begins in that specific paragraph of rules. It does indeed start off talking about wearing hats while indoors.

I said:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/03.aspx

"In any informal indoor activity where no official ceremony is involved, the headgear is removed as when in street clothes."

So how does the quote matter? "Blah, blah, the headgear is removed as when in street clothes." Grammatically, it's the same as saying something like, "When giving a tatoo, the skin should first be disinfected as when donating blood." The only thing we might disagree on is whether or not you shouldn't wear the uniform hat when in "street clothes" only while doing an informal indoor activity, or also when doing something outside completely unrelated to Scouting. Even so, as I said, I'm not picking on anyone for wearing a Scout hat when in normal clothes doing ordinary things in life (since I do that).

Where did the rule/quote come from? It's part of the Insignia Guide on the official Scout site -- I linked to it.

As I said:

"Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered." I have many things that I've earned in Scouting that I'd love to show off, but only a few things go on the uniform -- mostly the things on the uniform are about the same for everyone. The uniforms aren't a brag vest, where you show off everything you've ever earned. Some awards go on swim trunks, some are actually sewn on equipment, some go on the uniform, most are just left at home.

It's not a uniform police thing, or a desire to squash other people's fun. I mean, I don't wear the proper uniform all the time either. For instance, if you're not wearing the scout uniform, you're not supposed to wear a Scout hat, but occasionally I do wear my hat with normal clothes.

The insignia guide says:

"Consider displaying temporary insignia in ways other than on the official uniform. Here are some suggestions:

"Wear it on a BSA red patch vest, campfire robe or blanket, or special neckerchief.

"Display it on a wall plaque, trophy hide, or mounted in a frame.

"Or, make a special neckerchief slide, sectional totem pole, or flagpole insignia for display."

Whatever floats your boat though.

If folks googled "orienteering" they'd find out that it is a popular sport that involves handing the participant a map on which a series of "control points" have been marked.

It's basically a very very small orienteering course where if you actually gave a map with control points on it, there'd just be a big black dot on the map as the control points all bled together.

Things like this are designed for youth who have never handled a compass before and haven't the foggiest idea how declination might throw off the readings they're taking from the "North-South lines" on the map. You quickly explain these things to them then have the Scouts actually go take bearings and step off distances in a small controlled environment where they can learn by doing (and any mistakes made will only put them off course by 20-30 feet instead of a mile or more off course).

Once they've demonstrated proficiency with the tiny stuff, you're ready to turn them loose on the mile-long course.