msnowman

Back at the beginning of this thread I stated that I didn't feel a boy should hav two (or more) POR's. However, I definately seem to be the only one who feels this way.

Like with a lot of questions on this board I have run this out to the rest of my scouting family. Even there I was the sole person saying no.

Ahhh, at least nobody here has publically ridiculed my stand...Nephew has enjoyed pulling apart my arguements though. /smile

YiS

Michelle

Some of the best Troop/Pack/Family legends will start with the line "I was trying to be cool and....." and these same stories will end with some version of "that's how I learned not to do...."

Those lessons last a lot longer than boring words from an adult.

YiS

Michelle

This may vary by Council and/or by state. Each fall, in our Kickoff packet we receive a copy of our tax exempt certificate. This is from Council, not from our Charter Org.

Of course this is only useful if any of us remember to bring it with us when we make Pack purchases, but it is there.

YiS

Michelle

IMO no, a boy shouldn't hold two POR's. I say this based on Nephew's experience serving as both Den Chief and APL/SPL.

Our youth carry as full of a schedule as most adults (between school, sports, Scouts, OA, maybe a job, friends, etc), so you face the same burn out with your youth that you do with your multi-hatted adults.

Secondly, occassionally there is a Boy Scout thing and a Cub Scout thing scheduled for the same time period - either the Den Chief misses an event with "his boys" or he misses an event with his patrol.

I look forward to hearing the various sides of this issue and promise to refrain from publically negating someone else's opinion simply because it differs from my own. (/SMILE)

YiS

Michelle

(edited for appearance)(This message has been edited by msnowman)

Gratz on your newly minted Eagle. You must be so proud.

While I have never been to an outdoor ECoH, I would think they would have far more majesty than a stiff and formal indoor one. Good planning and best future travels for your Eagle.

YiS

Michelle

When Nephew was a Den Chief and an APL we went the 2 shirt route - he'd wear his DC shirt when he was working at the Pack Level and his APL shirt when he was working at the Troop level. When he dropped back down to one shirt w/ two positions he did as others here have suggested - APL/SPL (when the time came) patch and Den Chief Braids (including his Den Chief award braid).

YiS

Michelle

With so much scrapbooking stuff out there it seems like the hard part will be knowing where to "draw the line" for options.

I'm thinking that for a Day camp setting it might be good to have the shields precut and prepainted (time consideration), but this could also be a nice Den or Pack activity where the boys can paint their own quadrants before moving on to the pictures.

Hmmm, I feel an April Pack meeting funtime idea in the making.

I'm not the OP, but thanks again for the great suggestions - keep 'em coming.

YiS

Michelle

I liked this idea so much I've started working on a demo one to show my ACM. He's running Cub Day Camp for the district this year and is looking for ideas.

YiS

Michelle

Avid - then let me clarify what came across as poorly worded.

SM/ASM do approve the PLC plans - in as far as 1 - Banned by G2SS (no paintball or sod-surfing), 2 - Pointing out potential for scheduling conflict (ie - two far-flung activities on the same day), 3 - banned by Council (ie - camping in November, anywhere in the Council EXCEPT for the 1 island w/ no hunting allowed). Otherwise the boys do have final say...thus why they had a "lock-in" at the church that they wanted instead of the camping trip the SM really wanted them to do.

YiS

Michelle

Fgoodwin is right about Publisher. I used to do the Pack newsletter as a Word doc - okay, but not real special. In September I finally took the time to learn how to use Publisher - it made such a difference. 1st - I changed it from "newsletter" (how boring - who wants to read the news?) to Pack 123 Bugle (because we are "Trumpeting" news lol). I changed the format, use a lot of graphics and articles. Each den gets a section to put their news in. Some months I publish song lyrics or pencil games. Sometimes its jokes, etc. Various boys have written articles to share in it, which I put in unedited except for spelling. Scans of Hockey Team autographs have gone in to - whatever the boys like. The calendar goes in as an insert (calendar is also done in Publisher).

If you have Publisher and would like to see a sample set up PM me with your email address, I'd be happy to share what we have.

YiS

Michelle

In Nephew's Troop, the only adults that attend and play any sort of active role the PLC are the SM and an ASM (NSP advisor).

That's not to say other adults don't stay - the troop committee meets at the same date/time/place to conserve gas for the drivers and heating fuel for the CO. However, unless they are asked by the SPL for input, other attending adults are essentially "not entitled to an opinion". The boys do the planning. The SM/ASM approves/disapproves what they are doing. The SPL presents to the Troop Committee as necessary.

It may vary in other groups - but I think it is the norm for other adult leaders "not" to attend the PLC.

YiS

Michellle

It would seem multiple Mentors should be okay, along w/ multiple parent pins. In January there was an ECoH where the boy gave two mother and two father pins (and just one mentor pin iirc).

YiS

Michelle

Saturday, while chaperoning a Troop lock in, I asked the boys their feelings on this. My question to them was "Is it fair for a BoR to ask you if you believe in a god?" There were 2 Stars, 1 Life and 5 new Scouts.

The overwhelming response? "Well, a Scout is Reverent, so its as fair to ask about god as it is about being clean or obedient". They were also very clear that what would not be fair would be asking if they believed in God (as in Father/Son/Holy Ghost) - the specific God of standard Christianity. However, asking if they believe in "a" god - in whatever form that might take for the individual was absolutely fair game.

Just wanted to share views from some youth.

YiS

Michelle

I'm sure it will give some people fits, but Nephew's Troop holds their PLC and Committee meetings at the same date/time/place. The boys do their thing and the committee does theirs. When the SPL is ready to present their decisions to the SM he meets with them.

YiS

Michelle

A trophy for the "open/adult/sibling class" doesn't have to be a bought one. Our Open Class Trophy is one that one of the woodworking dads made. He affixed 2 race cars (though not PWD cars) to the top, made a lovely base, etc. It cost the Pack nothing, but brings lots of smiles. On the back is room for each year's winner to put their name on w/ a Sharpie. For what its worth, we also race a "Vintage" class (cars from previous years, including one from the 50's). This class gets a returnable trophy too....that trophy is a "vintage" (IE-recycled) trophy donated from a long ago, previous member.

YiS

Michelle

Dan - this was our second year doing that same thing - a perpetual trophy for our open class, to be handed down from year to year.

We register each to car to whoever brings it thru the registration process. This gives the boys a chance to accept responsibility for their car. We had one painfully shy Web II make a car with dad but refuse to race it. No worries - Dad registers it in the open class and races under his name. Shy Web II is happy to see his car race - and even happier knowing he will never have to get up front to get a patch/trophy/certificate.

Sounds like BS Son built the car but mom registered it. Okay, so technically its now mom's car and she gets the trophy. It sits on the family mantlepiece for a year before coming back to the Pack. Ultimately someone registered and raced the car and it won.

Hopefully it ends there. Of course, this is the real world and that isn't likely, because what works for us prolly won't work for you (or the next pack, or the one after that).

Good luck and remember - you have a year to decide how to handle this the next time it happens...because you know it will.

YiS

Michelle

Good for both of you for being willing to step up and help out. Please don't fall in to the trap that Bobwhite cautioned against- thinking that decorated = qualified. While many highly decorated Scouters may be perfectly qualified, that isn't always the case. And in many cases, the more decorated a Scouter is, the more out of touch with the realities of day to day runnings of a Unit that Scouter is.

One of my biggest pet peeves is the "we've always done it that way" (or its relative "that's not how so-so did it"). Well great and wonderful for So-so, but I'm not that person and I am bringing my own talents and abilities to this job.

I do sympathize with your husband. As a first year CM going to roundtable I thought I must be the biggest idiot going because I didn't even know what the knots were for, let alone how one went about getting them. I figured I had no business trying to run a good Pack program, but did it for my little Bear. He is now a Star (almost Life) Scout and the Pack has grown leaps and bounds...I guess I figured it out, even without a lot of decoration to show for it. Your husband will too.

YiS

Michelle

ETA - I have to second the greatest reward sentiment shared above. A boy or a parent saying "Thank you" is the best thing in the world. At the end of the day that's the thing that makes it all worthwhile for me.(This message has been edited by msnowman)

The Cubmaster's Knot and the Cubscouters Knot both have a two year tenure attached, as well as other training items. If he has taken CM training then he is qualified to wear the trained patch on his left sleeve, below the position patch.

IMHO (Having been a CM, WDL and back to CM again) the trained patch is almost more important than a chest full of knots. The trained patch, to me, says "I care about this Pack and these boys and want to "DO MY BEST" as Cubmaster to make sure they have a quality program".

Yes, I do have my CM Knot and will be getting my CScouter Knot this year. But, without that trained patch neither would be possible. When a parent asks about the light blue knot on my uniform I am happy to tell them that I could only get that because we run a quality program.

Encourage your husband to get trained (if he isn't already) and to wear his Trained patch proudly. Focus on building (or maintaining) a quality program for the youth he is lucky enough to serve. The knots will come in time.

Yours in Scouting

Michelle

PS - There will always be a few that say "the awards should be for the boys". Don't let them discourage you (or your husband) from earning things available to you. The Unit will only benefit from his efforts to improve himself and his unit.

We ran 16 Scout Cars and about 30 Open Class cars this year (our biggest field in 8 years). We don't do a double elimination or anything like that - each Scout car races 4 times (twice in each of 2 useable lanes). The times from all four heats are added together, with the lowest total time the winner and on done the line. While these results are being tabulated we run the two heats for the Open Class (and Vintage when we have cars for it). Those results get tabulated while we hand out the award certificates and then we hand out place awards.

One thing that cut the time required for our race was having registration for an hour BEFORE race time. Our race was set for 3pm, registration was open from 1:30-2:30 - bring your car, get it signed in and then you are free to leave until race time. This way we were able to get the race underway on time and get out in about two hours.

YiS

Michelle

Our pack has a couple of boys that are "scholarshipped" to varying degrees. We don't have a specific "need" policy. Rather we go on what we know or the parent tells us and go from there. We do take in to account how willing the parents and the boy are to help themselves. If they participate in fundraisers, etc they will get more help than those who don't bother to try to help themselves.

We have also had pretty good luck getting "sponsors" for boys in need. A few past leaders from the Pack, as well as some leaders in the Troop are willing to sponsor a boy's registration/rechartering fee to keep the child in Scouts. Some even sponsor for books, outings, etc - as works for the sponsor.

Regardless - we never turn a boy away simply because of money - they are usually the ones that need it the most. We have one of those boys right now. He is almost 100% scholarshipped, even to the extent of needing a ride to and from meetings. BUT - Mom does her best to help him with advancement, popcorn sales, baking for bake sales, helping in the kitchen if she can, etc. When the Pack committee is planning for an extra activity with costs involved we all pretty much do what it takes to get this boy where he needs to be.

Good luck and remember you are making a difference in their lives.

YiS

Michelle

Our Web I's did this last year as Bears and again this year as Webelos I's (God & Me and then God and Family). Last year as Bears they had 4 out of 5 choose to participate in the program (most of the families either had no formal religion or where alreday Methodist). This year they had 4 out of 4 (one dropped out over the summer) participate. They did the religious classes in addition to their regular den meetings.

The DL and ACM left it up to the parents if they wanted their son to participate or not. One of the boys has an Agnostic mother, but she let him participate so he can make his own choice.

I think organizing it and offering it as a den is fine. However, if not all the boys can participate (for whatever reason), then replacing den meetings with the religious class isn't quite fair to them.

YiS

Michelle

Its not just the boys you have to get comfortable w/ the Troop before summer camp. Since most new boys aren't driving themselves or writing their own checks you have to get the parents comfortable with sending their darlings into the woods for a week w/ strangers. Crossing over in March gives all of the new people time to get comfortable.

No, parents aren't the only reason - but you still gotta give them time.

YiS

Michelle

For a boy needing at Youth XL, a men's small wouldn't be too long. After his Crossover yesterday our sole Web II (now a proud Boy Scout) got a new-to-him shirt. He went from a Youth Medium (10/12) to a Men's Small because we didn't have any Youth Large (14/16). The shirt is a little long on him, but that means it will have a better shot at staying tucked in with bending and active use.

Yours in Scouting

Michelle

About a month before Pinewood we have a mandatory Pinewood Derby Meeting. This is the only times cars are handed out and each boy and a parent/guarding/partner is expected to attend. One of the things we spell out in short, little words is that if the scout does not attend, his car does not race in the Cub Scout class. Mom/Dad/Granpa/Auntie can race it in the open class, but it will not qualify for the District race.

As others have said, those parts of the rules will vary by Pack and what works for us may not work for you. If you haven't had a specific rule dictating that a boy has to be present for his car to race in the PWD than I don't see it as fair to keep that car from racing at the District level if it qualifies. And, this should give your committee something to chew on for next year...it will come up again.

YiS

Michelle

If the SM wants 10 minutes w/ the SPL after the regular meeting I don't understand why the ASM's would have such an issue with that. But, if they do, couldn't the boy's driver stay (to fill the 2nd adult role)? I am Nephew's driver (at least for another year, God help us all) and I don't mind staying late if the SM believes it to be necessary. As a Scout Guardian I belive my job to support not just Nephew but to support the SM too. I'm also a Committee Member, so I believe this doubly so.

YiS

Michelle