Momleader

Eagle1993 - your council is the only one messing with The future of Cub Scout Camp. I posted earlier this month (in the Cub sub forum)about the hair Brained idea our council is doing this summer. And add to it the council that shares our state has a council camp not 15minutes away from the town the pack I work with and they aren’t even offering a Cub Day Camp this summer. They rented the facility out to another camp group to run a day camp program at it. So they suggest the people who want the 2 overnight program use those in our council. 

Honestly - if I still had a Cub Scout who wanted to go to Cub Scout day camp I would have to drive 25 minutes to the nearest council camp bus stop and they could ride a school bus for an hour to camp from there. That stop picks up at 7am and drops them back off at 6pm (if they don’t get stuck In traffic). And the council exec wonders why parents are sending their kids to the local nature centers, Pack and rec,  and ymca camps? Similar costs until you add in the fees for bussing  

the bell tolls for cub camping in my part of the state

Are individual units allowed to apply for grants and keep the money - or are they supposed to turn it over to the council?  I’ve looked all over and haven’t seen anything but our unit commissioner thinks we have to turn it all over to the council since we aren’t a popcorn pack.  We found a grant that we can apply for that would help cover two of the enrichment activities for the pack and help with the fees. It’s not huge $$ but would make a big difference in our pack budget -we could keep a couple hundred in the checking account to start off for next fall.    
 

Our pack has been trying to come up with a way to fundraise to cover a couple

guest speakers for pack meeting enrichment and the increase of national fees and the increase of council fees for the 2020 recharter. Going back to the families for an additional $20 per kit was not feasible since so many were on payment plans as it was.

Pack Committee and parents decided last spring/early summer that popcorn would not be sold for a host of many reasons, all that were valid. We are rural (no real neighborhood housing developments), most of the parents are either self employed or work where they aren’t allowed to help their kid sell at work, setting up a booth at the town fall fair is expensive and takes a fair amount of the profit earned in past years, our  local supermarket isn’t allowing groups other than school groups to have sales outside their store, 3 years ago we had more than a few quality complaints (council wide thankfully) and parents are tired of selling period.  
 

Our pack uses the laundry detergent jugs with water in them. And hung from the handle is a bar of dial soap in a red mesh bag that held onions

Money problems affect camp big time!

Our council - like others has money challenges and now changed the offerings for Cub Scout Camp opportunities.   Not really for the best either. 

This summer if parents from my community who want their cub to attend Cub Scout day camp will need to drive 1 hour each way to our council camp facilities (school bus will take longer since they can’t drive as fast as mom on the highways) Also if you want your child to attend Cub Scout resident camp you must either sign up for a full week program - they eliminated the 2 night mini-camp experience and the Cub & Me overnight camp portion. Granted it’s all because of numbers of campers and the costs involved but, Now there will be cubs who don’t qualify for camp scholarships who have families who might not be able to swing the full price of a week at camp OR who might not be able to attend a full week due to the time being too long for time off work or away from home (where the 2 night/3 day was doable). Eliminating Cub & Me means families with no prior camping experience or are unsure they want their child to do this type of camping won’t have a try before you buy experience. 
Our pack hasn’t sent a cub for the full week since I stopped going because I wasn’t able to  keep going as the leader when my sons crossed to the troop (DFS frowns on leaving minors home alone)  and no other cub leader had stepped in - but we can usually get some to the Cub&Me With their child.  

This is sad because there will be a large section of cubs who won’t get to do some really good activities that are only sanctioned at council events/camps such as BB shooting and archery. Not to mention swim tests for those without BSA test administrators/lifeguards (something really good for webelos so their first experience isn’t as a crossover)

What are other Cub leaders funding for this summer??

Sorry, but National cannot blame volunteers for this and the current financial mess the organization is in, they can blame certain volunteers with a predilection and drive to molest the youth entrusted to them and they can blame their predecessors for not being more proactive in eliminating those individuals from the roles of volunteers.  They can blame those who were spending the money at the National level for properties like SBR.  They can take a long hard look in the salaries at the top level of national and the council execs (who should NOT be earning more that schools superintendents in their region)
 

Since the announcement of the new National fees and this Philmont Mortgage there has been lots of unhappy grumbling in my district. Our council charges a ‘Program Fee’ per youth or adult registered. When pressed over the past years as to what portion of program it covers they finally came clean and said the council offices and salaries.  They were offended at  the suggestion it be called a Council Membership  Fee or Council Joining Fee like National does. When they were  pressed about what kind of cub programs (day/weekend events) they will offer, the answer was “depends on what the volunteers want to plan, organize and then we will help them figure a budget and an attendance fee”. No staffers available to come help with the event.  
 

Sorry but I’m a little skeptical about the future. We go to Roundtable and get finger wagged about about all the things we could/should be doing to make things better for the organization and a lot of the smaller units want to make things better for the kiddos they are serving first.  Show me one adult volunteer who wants to be told by council about all the stuff they aren’t doing right or enough of and here is more paperwork/online training that you need to do so we have data on the program. Case in point: this month the report was how  the cub camp at council camps have declining numbers for resident and day camp.  This is because, strangely a lot of the packs in our district are opting to hold Weekend Pack Campouts because it’s less $$ for families and program can be tailored to the group.  BSA should decide if they  want to use camping as a money maker or skills/leader maker.  

To blame volunteers for the financial problems is wrong.  The people at the top control the purse not the volunteers

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

So at a quick glance of OP document, this is rob Philmont to pay Bechtel?   

Ive never made it to Philmont. My husband and kids went twice together and husband went as a scout. We’ve all been to the ‘Summit’ twice. They said they will never go back to WVA. There is absolutely no comparison and it isn’t the ‘summit’ experience you would expect it to be - they felt the Jambos were an exercise in hurry peace and wait. Hubby had been to one at AP Hill. I wasn’t all that impressed with what I saw of the ‘Summit’ either - but I was working 10hr days with 2 half days off in the merit badge area.   Seemed like a giant summer camp week

I’ve been at this leader gig what feels like a long time. Over 12 years. I totally understand burnout. I would say, first and foremost focus on your child and families happiness before the ‘good of the group’. It sounds selfish, but if your child isn’t having fun and you’re stressed out from wearing to many hats then they could start resenting the program and the other kids. I’ve seen it happen - in our pack and in others. Our own Kids can be fickle creatures some days - happy you’re involved but green eyed & jealous when they feel others are getting all the attention - even if it’s not the case - it’s all perception. 

Sometimes just stepping back to a fun role is helpful. I would try that and maybe ask if your Woodbadge fee could be credit it’s toward another course In the future. 

Bring back the pioneering and Native American skills and games that were in the old Cub Program.   Let them play games that they can get filthy dirty in. Our fall hike was based on the old Bear leaf ID elective and the kids had a blast stomping around to identify them with an arborist dad.   One Grampa in the group found paw prints near the water and the cubs were trying to ID them back at the luncheon with the old stalking/tracking MB books the troop in town keeps on hand. 
 

parents need to let the youth fail - fail at making a fire, or a meal or having their tent set up so it doesn’t leak.   It’s not like they’re being sent into the woods solo to fail - there are friends and adults there so it doesn’t get dangerous. 
 

STEM/STEAM is good but they get that at school. What about letting the kids make the connection from ‘old’ skills to the STEMy stuff themselves. 

14 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One SE told his council to be prepared for up to $100.

Considering tomorrow is the date we have been told we would hear by....every council is doing a good job keeping mum about it if they know yet. 
 

as to pack’s budgeting for this - it’s hard to budget for something like this when we were told NO New Increases. Then we get told as school starts, there’s an increase to insurance fees, and we might be raising the council fees now .... then the day after recruiting night ‘guess what?!  National is raising the rates!!’    It’s a moving target and makes you dizzy trying to follow it  

after the dust settles if our pack doesn’t have to refund all the parents the fees paid for this year (19-20) I will probably stick around and keep finding adult training like Baloo/owls for the pack leaders even going out of Council when need arises and planning kid friendly stuff for the remaining cubs to do

Let the girls who are working on communication merit badge know if they plan and emcee the COH it counts as a requirement #8 I believe

Also if your town/area communities have a small gauge RR with RR car bikes that can be tons of fun for cub families. (Workout for the parents) but really a neat free/low cost thing to do

Double Eagle:  Stop Running / No running is acceptable. Especially in our council camps - when my boys were cubs we had a summer camp week where the ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) child was told stop running in camp several times and it was explained daily why no running in camp - until he ran in camp, tripped on a rock or tree root and broke his hand.  Safety doesn’t always need gentle reminders  

this weekend we had a cub Activity day with picnic & s’mores after. One cub family left early because their child wanted to eat s’mores while everyone was eating lunch (everyone was told those would be made after everyone ate lunch). Parents told the child - to eat their lunch or sit quietly and “if your going to have a tantrum over the rules-we go home” and they did. 👏👏👏

At Roundtable yesterday - heard our council lost a packet of Cub Applications with a leader application from a pack the next town over. And I know of a couple Eagle Applications that were misplaced for months, presumed lost and found after parents of Eagles raised heck.   
 

how do other councils handle this handing over of information?  Do they sign for it or give a receipt?

sadly this is nothing new in our council (most of us scan and keep a copy just in case) but in the event of leader apps there are SSNs on there. Shouldn’t they be more careful to protect that information?

What about best selfie with catch. Parents will probably be taking photos

At Roundtable yesterday our interim DE (6 months) said they’ve heard nothing about what the national fees might be, other than substantial (probably more than $5-10/registeree). When he was pressed if the council fee would stay the same or increase also, answered the board will decide after National makes an announcement what the council fee will be based on membership numbers.  But they want our Charters returned and paid for on 12/2/19 for processing. 🤦‍♀️  

7 business days out from national’s communicated date and no leaks or rumblings - hmmm.  
 

not sure what anyone else is hearing but that’s what we have heard in our state

I see 2 HUGE flaws with their way of thinking on this one....

My pack’s CO (we have to follow safe church and BSA YPT) requires if cubs are camping a parent/guardian attends while cub is on campout regardless of rank and we have had NO problems. When they cross to the Troop the kids are excited to finally camp without a parent present 😂. 
 

first flaw - site rental at the council run camps in our state - you book for the weekend. And they are minimum hour drive away. Following this rule of national councils should  reduce the rate we pay so we only pay for the time in camp it will be a cold day in hades before that will ever happen.  We have to rent the site and pay a per person surcharge ($3).  

second flaw - what happens on a pack family campout when a parent comes with 2 siblings  (Tiger and Bear or Above). “Sorry but little Joey has to go home after one night but little Johnny can stay?”  How is that family friendly BSA?    
 

Kids here know that our pack is Year round outdoors activity related. We’ve had more kids join because of this and a few quit because they don’t like the outdoor activities much.   I held my fist Lion/Tiger den meeting this week every child was asked what was the one thing they wanted to do before the Blue & Gold awards ceremony In spring as a Cub Scout? #1 Sleep in the woods in a tent with a fire, #2 catch lots of fish (we have a large state forest in town - good fishing). We have den goals posters every year the kids make up...bears want to earn whittling chip and get a knife and camp. 

Tried to attend one of these when my own kid was a Webelos. It was in a different district in our council - those running it weren’t very welcoming when we asked if we could attend (we had never heard of one before). 
 

what kind of activities/achievements were worked on?

2 hours ago, SteveMM said:

Well this thread has strayed pretty far from my original post.

The squirrels have run through. I think folks heads are still trying to absorb the idea of increases in fees and looming bankruptcy announcements while trying to run a decent program for the kids. 

We’re bringing back the den flags this year!  

Going to Walmart getting some white cloth and a packet of grommets (have the install tool). Each den gets one with the rank name on it for the kids to decorate with fabric markers. 

Glad to see that Goodwill is working with them cooperatively.

 I tried working with the 2 Goodwill Stores in my area and the manager says they usually toss scout uniforms out to the bins that go to the goodwill outlet (where you rummage around and pay per pound) or they wind up in the bin of Halloween costumes. I offered to bring a bin in for them to toss uniforms into but they said it wasn’t allowed. Kind of a shame because we could have recycled them into the pack and other packs in the area. 

I did leave a card at the kid consignment shops and smaller thrift stores for this reason though - I will buy them. 

One problem we have is kids join and their parents come asking for a uniform they can’t afford, if we have a uniform for them, we ask they return it for the next size or if they decide to not do scouts anymore. We NEVER get those back to pass along to another scout in need.  

Biggest reason I would love to see Cub Scouts move to a polo shirt uniform per rank (keeping it around $15-$20 each) - plus they would fit better.  

We have 2 families that signed up their 3 cub scouts and are now asking for financial aid. 

I emailed them to give the free/reduced lunch info from my council. And I’m waiting for them to get me that info to drop off with the applications. Not sure if either qualify for the lunch letter or not , they haven’t replied.

How do your packs determine financial aid from the pack?  Do you have criteria or application process?  Who Makes the awards decisions so that it is fair and doesn’t look like anyone is being favored over another? Should our chartered org be in charge of this decision?   The pack doesn’t have the funds to cover the kids fully or partially unless we start charging the adult leaders.  

We don’t sell the popcorn: sales declined in our pack drastically and then parents voted to not do it as a fundraiser (they don’t want to sell anything) and as the Committee Chair, it’s not my place  to be the only one at a show and sell for it.  

Whoa I hope  you’re wrong. $67 increase is a big pill to swallow!   

Does anyone else think there will be a number by the promised 10/23 date or will they push it out again?

I feel duped & letdown by the organization.     I opened my email last night and felt anger the council emailed leaders - this morning I opened it again and felt sick because there was more email about it all - Last night our council sent ‘the letter’ to every registered family.  Our pack just sorted out how to absorb the “no fee increase - fee increase to council fees” since it was announced after we collected dues for 2019-2020. 

The bsa circle talk about money matters is beyond ridiculous.  National knows that more kids join the program at the start of the school year than other months - the data will show that.  So they know this should have been timed to have occur at least over the summer (municipal budgets start July 1)  but ‘no...let’s wait until mid 4Q to announce a change in pricing’.  What happens if they actually announce bankruptcy in the following 1Q or 2Q how is that trustworthy of them?  

I will be directing every single parent with questions to our DE and Scout Exec. They can do the explaining about how they have come at these numbers. They can come to a parent info session and give the reasons.  And they can’t blame it all on lower number of kids signing up, LDS departure or decreased popcorn sales. 

8 hours ago, yknot said:

I can answer #3 for you: If you are still in scouting after your kids have aged out some parents will wonder if you are a pedophile. I can't tell you how many parents have told me this is a worry.

 

Oh that’s just great!  Makes me really sad and kinda feel used by younger families in our area. I even wore my Uniform that has my district patches on it.   Last year I helped get the lion den off the ground since parents were not stepping up to be a leader/point person for the den - some were shocked that they couldn’t just drop the kid off for the hour activity - what does that say?

I get that people are especially wary and want to protect their kid given the history and the news.   Our Cubmaster & some leaders wouldn’t have been able to attend 3 different schools we recruit from because they’re at one of them as a parents for their kids. I wish the people could see This is when the committee members with older kids step up and help the pack out because they want to help not because they have bad intents