molscouter

scoutldr,

Do you feel the same way about those kids in "special" education? Gifted education can be viewed as another form of special ed, just on the opposite end of the scale.

While all people are created equal in terms of rights, they are not created equal in terms of abilities. There were thousands of college basketball players who took the court today at an ability level I can't even fathom. Likewise, there are any number of concert pianists, ballet dancers and atomic scientists performing at an equally high level. These people have undoubtedly worked hard to hone their God-given talents, but they had to have talent to begin with.

(This message has been edited by molscouter)

"Let's keep in mind the plaintiffs are also San Diego taxpayers, and the city can't decide to treat THEM any worse, either."

From what I read, the only plaintiff was the ACLU (yes, I know they were probably filing on behalf of somebody who actually lives in San Diego).

I have great doubts that $2 million dollars in fees was actually accrued (let's see, at $500/hour, that's 4000 hours). The very fact that the agreement capped the fees at under a million tells me that the original claim wouldn't stand up to a decent audit. Yep, right up there on the honesty scale with mass tort lawyers.

"And does the BSA inform all those thousands of public schools that charter BSA units that the BSA is a religious organization, and they are agreeing to "own and operate" a youth group that has religious requirements for membership?"

Do class action attorneys tell their clients that they'll get virtually nothing for their participation while the attorneys rake off a ridiculous portion?

Don't get me wrong, most attorneys are decent people. However, in my opinion, the ACLU as an entity is basically an extortionist organization that preys on small towns and school districts who haven't the resources to fight,

"This thread reminds me of when Nancy Reagan made some critical statements about the Beach Boys when they were selected to play in Washington DC on the 4th of July back in the late '70s."

Neither President nor Nancy Reagan ever said anything of the kind. That was James Watt, Reagan's Interior Secretary, and he said it circa 1981-82 even though the Beach Boys had performed several times on Independence Day in Washington throughout the 70's during the Ford and Carter administrations. I recall Mr. Watt receiving some sort of Silver Foot award for that faux pas. I also believe the Beach Boys were back in DC the following year.

The troop my son will soon join does both. Typically, the younger kids go to our local council camp and the older ones go out of council. As I understand it, they went to Michigan in 2002 and Colorado in 2003; Philmont awaits them this summer.

I just had the thought that you could tweak it a bit for part of a crossover ceremony by first using blue coloring and adding it to a glass with yellow to make green, so as to represent moving from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts.

What does he have to be terrified about? For starters, has he ever been alone in a room, outnumbered by adults, where he actually is expected to contribute something? I submit that for most kids, the Tenderfoot BOR is the first time.

Think about it. At school, kids outnumber the adults, not so threatening. If he's been at a family gathering, either 1) the conversation towards him is one on one or 2) the adults are talking among themselves and he isn't really a part of those conversations. Not to mention there's always one or two older Scouts who make it sound as if it's the inquisition, even if it's not.

Yes the icebreaker questions should help. But if he's petrified going in, they may not ease the anxiety quickly enough, especially for a shy boy.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

It depends on how complete you want the uniform to be. The hat is an official part of the uniform, but I don't view it as essential. No one in our pack has the hats. In fact, I don't know of anyone who has the pants. Since it is affiliated with a Catholic School and the school uniform pants are blue, no one feels the need to go get another pair of blue pants.

As for wearing it during flag ceremonies, the answer is in the Bobcat section of any rank book. You do not have to remove the hat during ceremonies, inside or out. Now, if you are teaching that hats are not to be worn indoors, that's a different matter.

You can't read anything off of one data point. While I have issues with the new Tiger program, I doubt that that specifically is the problem.

Eamonn, what is the size of the first grade in your area? We have had a weird situation in our town with large variance in class size from year to year. Example, my older son is a fifth grader. His class size (currently in a public school) is 27 and this seems to be typical district wide. He transferred out of our Catholic school prior to fourth grade, but the current fifth grade there has around 22 students per class. The current fourth grade is 1/4-1/3 smaller, the Catholic school is around 15 kids per class, the public schools around 20. My younger son is a third grader in the Catholic school, his class size is around 20 (not sure on the public side). It could just be a one year blip. If it continues, then there problems.

ScouterPaul, do not assume that a boy has to be 10 to have finished the 5th grade. There is a boy (not a Scout) at my son's school who competed in the National Spelling Bee last spring (April I think it was) as a 5th grader. He was 9 at the time. Granted this is a very rare occurence, but it can happen.

As a current (soon to be former) Webelos leader, I can attest that ScoutNut is correct: for a belt loop to count towards an Activity Badge requirement, it has to be earned as a Webelos Scout. My own son has earned the Baseball and Soccer loops twice, for example. With most of the sports loops, one of the requirements is to explain the rules of the game. I expected a much deeper knowledge of these as a second year Webelos than I did when he was a Wolf. (Explaining the infield fly rule, for example, or what a balk is, stuff beyond four balls, three strikes, three outs, etc.). I also gave all the kids who were going after the Sportsman badge the option of taking the credit for earning the loop or actually receiving it. Most of them just wanted the credit. Several of them had earned virtually all of the sports loops as Wolves and Bears, and didn't really want another loop.

Someone mentioned that this was inane. I submit it isn't a lot different than a Scout having to understand the Scoutt Oath for his Webelos badge and memorize and explain it for AOL, then do those things again for Scout and Tenderfoot.

The boys should be recognized as soon as possible after they earn their rank i.e., the first pack meeting. Admittedly, if they finish on Thursday and the Pack meeting is Monday, it may have to wait a month, but like I said, as soon as possible. I know that there are some packs that do everything at once so as to not hurt anyone's feelings, but the go-getters should be recognized. You would also be surprised how fast the others get into gear once they have seen their buddies get a badge, especially at the lower ranks.

While it's always appropriate at a Scouting event, my thoughts are it depends on what the Boy Scout wants to do. Definite yes on the Blue and Gold (he's probably an alum of the pack anyway). Pack meetings (you can actually get him to go to pack meetings? ) could go either way. If your Boy Scout is going to be doing something "official" such as lead an activity (or if he's a den chief), sure. If he's going to sit in the corner and do homework, I'd say no, why bother.

Eisley/Rooster,

As an alum of Notre Dame, I can assure you that the Stanford band's mockery of various subjects has not gone unnoticed by the ND community. The 97 performance in Palo Alto essentially implied that Irish culture consisted of drinking and starvation (the Potato Famine). However, a worse incident occurred back in 1991 during a game at Notre Dame, when they mocked Catholicism in general (I believe the music was conducted by a band member wearing a habit and waving a cross) I wasn't there, so I can't speak to the manner in which things were conducted, but from what I've been told, they weren't exactly respectful. In fact, they were been banned from ever performing at Notre Dame Stadium again.

There is a line between using symbols with respect and using them disparagingly, a line that has become very blurred in the modern victim mentality.

dsteele is correct, tackle football is a prohibited activity. However, some of the skills from regular football practice would apply to flag (throwing, catching). If the enough kids are interested, have a flag game as part of a activity; it might enable those kids who prefer to play soccer or don't play any sport to get the beltloop without having to be on a team.

I once saw one in London, walking with the Queen, his hair was perfect.

Bob,

Yes, I know it's not required. Just kind of triggered in my mind after reading Ron's statement of not being on his son's BOR as as ASM. It also assures I'm not being any easier or tougher on him than anyone else.

Anyone wondering why this thread is in the Issues section? Seems like it ought to be under Advancement.

Bob, earlier in the thread you made the statement:

"In Webelos the son of the Webelos leader would have the same ability if there were not a requirement to attend meetings."

In my Webelos den last year, I required my son to go to my assistant to get most everything signed off, and I required her son to come to me. The rest of the boys could go to either one of us. My reasoning was that both of them had to learn to talk/demonstrate/whatever to someone other than a parent that the requirements were met. The main exceptions were those where the requirement said discuss with your parent whatever, but it worked well.

I realize that the SM as an SM is not a mandatory reporter. However, if he's a doctor, paramedic, teacher, social worker etc, he might be a mandatory reporter. Tha's the angle I was coming from.

One question, is the SM a mandatory reporter. If so, I'm not sure he can separate his Scouter required actions from his state mandated ones.

Thanks all, just Texans bragging again That was the flavor of the thread, anyway.

Bob, my bad re. the handbook.

On another discussion board, one of the posters made reference to the fact that the Texas state flag is permitted to be flown at a height equal to that of the US flag due Texas' former status as an independent nation. The poster also cited the Boy Scout Manual as a reference for this. Two questions, is there such a reference in the Manual and for those of you who have been to a Jamboree, how is is flown when it is with other state flags?

I'm with TwoCubDad on this one. A strength requirement is not realistic for many kids this age. Remember, these are kids entering puberty, growth and strength do not always go hand-in-hand. Example, I just got back from Webelos resident camp. At this camp they have a very low level COPE course (essentially, climb around a three sided wall) that's maybe eight feet high. Last year, one boy scampered around the wall with no problem. This year he couldn't get to the first corner. He's a runner (competes very successfully in 5K runs, plays soccer, basketball), he is in shape. Oh, did I mention that he grew 6 inches and put on 15 pounds this year? His strength just hasn't caught up yet. A hard and fast rule just doesn't seem right at the ages we're talking about. On the other hand, they should be doing something.

Yes, but they'll bill you $300 for each hour they are there

Re. the question of youth driving to district events, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been told that tour permits are not required for district events. Perhaps that's why there is no restriction?

I'd contact the German Embassy in Washington. The number ought to be available online. If it isn't, perhaps your local Congressman's office or one of the Senate offices would be able to get it for you.