molscouter

I don't know the by-the-book answers, but my gut response is to #1 is, it depends.

If he were pursuing both the swimming and canoeing merit badges at the same time (with signed blue cards), I'd say demonstrating it once should suffice for both. Even if they weren't at the same time, if only a short time had lapsed (a month or maybe 2), it would probably be okay. If it were much more than that, I'd say no, show me again. Just because he knew it a year ago doesn't mean he knows it now. Even professionals have to get recertified every so often.

As for #2, I would be inclined to agree with the chairman. I base this on recent additions (clarifications?) to the Arrow of Light and Outdoorsman activity badge rules, which don't allow double dipping on one outing with a Boy Scout troop (i.e., you can't go to the troop campout and have it count for Outdoorsman's camp overnight with a Boy Scout troop and AOL's attend a Boy Scout outdoor activity).

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Ditto(This message has been edited by molscouter)

Excellent post, Twocubdad.

BTW, now that your oldest is a Boy Scout, do you need to change your handle? (This message has been edited by molscouter)

This column by Dan Wetzel says mountains about the man:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBqdGgyMXV0BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwNlY2w-?slug=dw-tillman&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

You may have to paste the link, I'm not computer saavy enough to handle two line links.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

mariewenden, you said that these boys and their parents are signing things off every night. If I recall correctly, there are about 50 things that make up the 12 achievements. If they do just one thing a night, that's 50 days or under two months. Most of these steps don't require hours of effort, a few minutes a day will usually do it. It's been my experience that the people who say it can't be done haven't taken the time to read the book and look for opportunities. A lot of the time, there will be stuff they do in school or just things that families do that will count.

You are lucky, you have very involved parents and boys who really want to be there. Keep up the good work.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

Does anyone know if BSA has come out with a new planning guide to refelct the new Webelos requirements? The one I used (sort of) had a schedule in it that went September, Communicator, October Showman, November and December Craftsman, etc. for the 1st Year and started off with Citizen for year 2. With Citizen now required for the Webelos rank so that it should be done in the first year and the addition of Outdoorsman as a requirement for AOL, I am wondering if anyone has revamped the guide. I didn't follow the old one religiously, but it did give me a rough schedule to follow. With my younger son graduating to Webelos next year, I would love to be able to give his den leader at least the opportunity to use something similar.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

Our Church uses the term Altar Servers.

My Dad actually did walk to and from school uphill, both ways. He lived on one side of town, his high school was on the other side of town, and a river ran through the middle of town. He doesn't talk much about blizzards, though.

Shell,

Acco40 was referring to your mispelling of the word "altar boy". Before he comes back, you should know it's Catholic, not catheolic. Some people get too hung up on this, but sometimes the grammar police are everywhere.

I like your definition of service hours being something outside of your regular duties as a part of a group.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

He is eligible for a Wolf den when he finishes first grade, so that is when he should switch. So yes, he can wear blue for the summer if he wishes.

Last night, I proudly watched six Webelos cross over to Boy Scouts; boys for whom I have had the honor of being their den leader for the past three years. They are all different.

All played at least two sports during their Cub years. They are A students, B students, and C students. They play baseball, football, basketball and soccer. One is a state place winning wrestler. One participates on a state champion level swim team. One is an excellent 5K runner. One was the school's math champion as a 4th grader (beating out the 5th and 6th graders). Another, who attends a different school, finished in the top 4 in the state and top 30 nationally in a 4th grade honors math competitition. Several sing in choirs and/or play musical instruments. A couple are very adept using hand tools.

My favorite moment came this year in February, when one boy, the one who is least involved in outside activities nor an A student, for whom Cub Scouts is his sole extracirricular activity right now, and who always decided at the last moment in September whether or not he was coming back, got the final sign off on his Arrow of Light Requirements. He raced over to his mom and said "I did it! It was worth it! I earned Cub Scouts highest award!" That alone made the three years of meetings worth it all.

What they really have in common are parents who care and work with them. I had two boys drop out in those three years (one after Bear, one during 4th grade). One had parents who weren't involved at all, the other just didn't like the stuff that Webelos did.

It is the rare boy who is self-motivated enough to succeed at anything without parental involvement. In my opinion, the thing that successful Cubs have in common is parents who get involved.

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If no volunteer hours ever count as service hours, what does count? Keep in mind that volunteering at a day camp usually involves a week of effort, far in excess of the amounts for any of the rank requirements. I see nothing wrong with these hours counting.

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So if a boy doesn't have his official Cub Scout socks on, he shouldn't wear any part of the uniform? Makes sense to me. Be prepared (weaving in a little Boy Scouts here, 3 days to crossover) for virtually all Cubs to be wearing no uniform at all.

A pack can encourage the complete uniform, but there is no way to enforce it.

Also (and scoutldr can back me up here), should does not mean shall.

The "temporary" patches our council has been giving out lately have had either a button hole or a device similar to the top of the Webelos Compass Emblem. You can easily attach the patch to the right pocket button and you don't have to do all that sewing and unsewing (is that a word?).

Using grade based criteria, the Wolf badge is for boys who have completed the first grade and the Bear badge is for boys who have completed the second grade. That means the day they finish school, they have completed the grade and can start work on their next rank.

As fboisseau said, I would encourage those who have not completed Wolf to try and finish if they want to. The others should be encouraged to start the Bear requirements. There are a lot of outdoor family activities that really lend themselves to summer. Also, remember, Wolf is not a requirement for Bear nor is Bear a requirement for Webelos, only Bobcat is.

The whole subject becomes even more important when boys have completed third grade and become Webelos. If you don't consider them Webelos in June, they can't go to Webelos camp, which typically run 3-4 days and give the boys at chance to at least partially start earning activity badges. Especially in the north, badges such as Aquanaut are a lot easier to earn at camp than during the school year.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

ScoutNut gives several good points. I've been a Den Leader for 3 years, 1 as a Bear and 2 with Webelos. If our pack is typical, (and kids are kids, so it probably is), the "showing off" is not that big a deal to the older Scout. Watch the awards cermony sometime. When a Tiger gets his totem or his badge, he's grinning from ear to ear. The same usually holds true for the Bobcat and Wolf badges and the Wolf Arrow Points. Bear year comes, and they get a little less excited. Been there, done that. First year Webelos, the first few activity pins get awarded, they are proud of themselves. Then that gets old as well. As second year Webelos, they can't wait to sit down and be inconspicuous. They don't want to be associated with those first graders. After they do some things with the Boy Scout troop, most will lose interest in the activity pins as well. They want to run with the big guys. Heck, my group wanted to sit down as fast as they could this past Sunday after they received their AOL.

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My guess is that was what the denner wore. The denner is a Cub Scout, elected by the den members, who helps the den leader with whatever aspects of the den meeting the den leader wants help with. Now they wear a double braided rope device over the shoulder.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

Marty,

I think SC's suggestion was just that, a suggestion; something that National could think about.

Personally, while it's an intersting concept, I don't favorite it for a practical reason. Putting a needle and thread through one badge is tough enough, I don't even want to think about trying to push them through two.

The answer to your question is that no one has had to deal with it. BSA completely revamped the Tiger program two years ago; this year's Bears were the first group to earn the diamond Tiger Badge. Every pack will need to deal with it.

My second son (a Bear) is about to outgrow his second shirt (luckily, it's a hand me down from his older brother, so we got 2+ years out of it). I'm quite certain he'll be ready for tan a year from now.

What's missing from all political discourse in this country is respect. None of the current politicos seem to believe you can disagree with someone and still respect them.

Remember the 1980s? President Reagan and Speaker Tip O'Neill would battle all day over whatever the issue was. But at the end of the day, you always got the impression that they could have sat down and had a beer or two, and tell jokes and such. They probably never did it, but you envision them doing it. They respected each other, even if politically they wouldn't have agreed that the sun rises in the east. Nowadays, both sides would be too busy trying to slip hemlock into the other sides drink.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

No matter what you do, the grin on the Tigers' faces is great. "Look at me Mom, look what I got". Contrast that with the Webelos who usually look like "Can I sit down now?" before they even get to the front.

I have to agree with FOG on this one. The arrow points are easy to sew on, there's only the shirt proper to deal with. The toughest is locating that Tiger badge in the correct place on the pocket (six o'clock and remember, they may not have the Bobcat badge yet, my younger son didn't) then having to try to sew it on that tiny pocket with my fat, short fingers. Luckily the Tiger badge is sticky on the back, that helped some.

The time has come for definitive guidance on this, though. This year's Bears were the first to earn the Tiger badge, so as Webelos next year, they need to know. The uniform inspection sheet (at least the one I've seen) contradicts itself. The words say only the current rank (Bobcat, etc) is worn and as an option, the diamond Webelos badge if the Tiger badge was not earned. The diagram clearly shows a Tiger Badge in the six o'clock position as an option, and arrow points are there. So which is it?

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Ed,

Actually, you were correct both times. As I said above, the new requirements just came out last summer. The current Webelos IIs, having started nearly 2 years ago, are using the old requirements, which means filling out the application (I know, my six just did it Monday night). I suspect the majority of Webelos Is are also using the old requirements, again having started before the new ones came out. They will likely be the last ones who need to fill it out.

FOG/Bob White

We are discussing the current requirements. The paragraph that fotoscout cites is the one that the current Webelos (certainly all IIs and virtually all Is) are using. The new requirements didn't come out until last summer. The new requirements for both the Webelos badge and AOL are not mandatory until August 2005. Technically, this year's Bears (and Wolves, since they would finish third grade in May/June 2005) could also use the old requirements; availability of books will likely dictate that choice.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

"That is why a group like the ACLU would look for a San Diego resident who is gay or an atheist and who is therefore paying taxes to a government that is using public property to give a no-rent lease to a group that excludes him from membership. That is probably enough to have "standing.""

Which makes evmori's point. The ACLU targeted the Boy Scouts and then found plaintiffs who would back them up. Why don't they do the same to other "religious" groups. Answer, because it isn't sexy.

What is the definitive answer on the oval Webelos badge? I will have 5-6 scouts crossing over in a month, and would like to give a definitive answer to them. Personally, I was planning to take my son's Webelos rank off once he is awarded the AOL, but does he have to?

While it may be allowed, it cannot be because it is the new Boy Scout's most recent rank, however. Any 5th grader can cross over provided he has reached the age of 11; AOL only is required for those who are not yet 11. If he got no further than Bobcat, he could cross over. No way the Bobcat badge is going on the Boy Scout uniform.

AOL is most definitely a rank; most of the time, one refers to the Eagle Scout award, but Eagle is definitely a rank. I see no reason that AOL should be any different.