Mike Long

I teach etiquette when I see a lack of it.

Not as a formal part of the troop program but as the opprotunity presents itself. And yes I do it under the auspices of "A Scout is Courteous"

The BSA does though and have made it a requirement. So much so that it is the fourth thing you do to become a member right after be old enough, find a troop and fill out a medical form.

And unless you have a compelling reason other than "I don't like it" and arguments of convenience you don't have a case.

Might I suggest you look more closely at the traditions and belief systems of an organization BEFORE you join it?

Picking a fight for the sake of fighting isn't scoutlike.

I'll get to start teaching manners and basic life skills in about a month at our house. Our first child is due in early September. My wife is hoping that our baby is born with the "promptness" skill pre-learned. I won't hold my breath on that one, I happen to know my genetic code makes that a long shot at best.

There will always be oafs and louts out there and yes I've worked around many. I have also seen similar situations in Scouting. So much so that I no longer ask rude Scouts the age old question "Do you do/act like that at home?" I now simply state that "Boy Scouts are gentlemen and we DO NOT act that way. We act THIS way." I had hoped that the trend wasn't so widespread.

One of my biggest challenges every year is to get our patrols to eat as a patrol at one time instead of each guy grabbing his portion as it is prepared and running off to do his own thing. A patrol is a paradigm of a working family. The patrol method might not include the emotion of love but it does contain all of the functional aspects of a strong family when working as intended.

I do not object to a merit badge covering the subject I simply find it depressing to think that as a nation we have gotten so poor at educating our children in the BASICS of human interaction in our own families and society that we now feel the need to abdicate that responsability to schools and civic institutions. (Scouts in our case)

Shame used to be an acceptable way to reinforce ettiqette. Now allegedly shame is a bad thing because it "damages" self esteem and we are breeding it out of the species. My parents are teachers and both have been told that they will be reprimanded if they ever tell a child (even as an aside) that the child is displaying poor ettiquette because they will be shaming the child.

I felt and still feel that way about Family Life merit badge. Apparently the BSA doesn't think that all boys know what a family is and how a family is supposed to interact. Before anyone decides to call me to task on "Who are you to say what is and isn't a family" I'll tell you what a family is. It's a group of people who mutually love, respect and support one another and work for the betterment of each other and themselves. Feel free to add to that as you wish but that is the mimimum requirement. Unfortunately the BSA seems to be right on regarding Family Life judging by some of the egregious examples I've seen in the last few years. (a parent stealing summer camp fees from their kids so they can go party to name one example)

No, am not against either badge. I will/do support both of them, I just wish they weren't needed. Kids have to learn these things somewhere, why not in Scouts? We seem to be one of the few bastions of society left that has standards of decency and as society drops these skills by the wayside it seems appropriate to pick them up.

Has it gotten so bad that we now need an Ettiquette Merit Badge?

I was saddened to see a few years ago that the BSA now feels that we need to have a Family Life Merit Badge and an Eagle required badge at that.

I was under the impression that these things were taught in every home and were a natural part of growing up in America.

I guess I was wrong.

I can tell you that there is nothing in the mainline Presbyterian faith that admonishes you to not say the pledge. As a matter of fact many Presbyterians are ralling behind and support the Pledge in this current issue and were also a major force in getting the Pledge adopted and later adding "Under God".

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning as to exactly why you don't want to say the Pledge.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

The fourth requirement to join Scouts is to repeat the Pledge of Allegiance.

It already is a requirement and you should have done it by now.

That said, I would think that it being against your religious beliefs that requirement could be waived. If your Scoutmaster doesn't agree then you need to talk to your district advancement chair and see what he says.

But before you call district, I do feel that is is necessary to say that patriotism IS one of the primary points of the BSA's federal charter. As such your Scoutmaster is probably unsure of how you could possibly be patriotic, be a good Scout and refuse to recite the Pledge. Maybe you could explain to your scoutmaster what your faith says about the Pledge and other oaths and also explain to him how your faith allows you to be patriotic. Help him to understand your position.

Our troop meets in a church so the hats are always removed during meetings, this has grown so customary ans natural to us that the troop never wears hats when indoors.

Unless there is an extinuating circumstance (physical or mental handicap to name a couple) then the scout must complete the requirement in order to advance.

Not advancing doesn't mean automaticaly mean a diminished scouting experience.

All you can do is encourage the scout and maybe give him a little extra help to learn how to swim. Suggesting to the parents that they enroll him in swimming classes is a good suggestion too.

Just this year we had a third year scout finally pass the swim test and swimming merit badge at camp. This happened thanks to three years of hard work on the scouts part and a little personal help from the aquatics staff.

If the scout has not fullfilled the requirements then the leaders are not the ones denying anything.

Here is a true anecdote for learning to swim.

My dad was in the Navy. When I was a Scout our troop was chartered to Mayport Naval Station, Mayport, Florida. We performed a flag ceremony at a WW2 sailors reunion for the USS Forrestal. Remember the aircraft carrier that took a kamakazi to the flight deck and had that horrible fire during WW2? A lot of sailors jumped from the deck to save themselves from being burned to death.

Apparently the vast majority of the sailors in the war learned to swim while in Scouts and would not have learned to swim unless they had been scouts. Many of those same sailors who lived by jumping were in attendance that day and the first question they asked us scouts was "Did you boys pass the swimming requirement yet? If not you'd better work at it cause it saved our lives."

Learn to swim.

We took 31 scouts and 4 adults to camp this summer. Yikes, what an adult to scout ratio.

Two immediately choose to be on staff for the rest of the summer. Put those leadership skills to work!

All scouters attending completed Safe Swim Defense and Safety afloat.

One scout who was never able to complete any of the swimming requirements (and failed the swim test on arriving at camp) completed Swimming merit badge with a little extra attention from the aquatics staff.

Lots of hard work (for me), lots of fun (for them) and lots of achievement (for all of us). What more could you ask for?

Homesickness really wasn't a problem with the Scouts however Scoutsickness was a big problem with one parent who decided to make a very public spectacle of herself while we were away. What a mess that is.

Have you thought about changing troops? Maybe there is one near you that you would enjoy more that does more interesting trips or has better meetings. I would think a better unit would maybe rekindle some interest in scouts.

Or are you beyond that already? Did you ever like being in scouts?

In any event no one should be forced to be in any activity that they hate. It isn't fair to you and it isn't fair for your troop to have a disinterested leader.

I'm with yaworski on that one. Ain't no way I'm name tagging kids. Too much information easily accessable to those who don't need to know.

I make it a point to learn the names of everyone in our troop. I expect the youth and adult leadership to do the same. I can't stand to hear anyone in our troop refer to someone in our troop as "that kid" or "hey you."

It's simple common courtesy to learn someones name. Yes, I do have trouble with names too but I work very hard at it.

Teach both.

It is true that I have not used an axe in years but the skill of using either one safely and effectively is invaluable.

I'm a backpacker and I rarely use a compass either but I practice the skill regularly.

The upper 90's with 90+ humidity is standard here. No big deal and nothing the stay indoors over.

Now -30 would be a problem for us but that's only if we didn't know it was coming.

For our troop you named the only conditions to not camp: close lightning, tornados, hurricane, flood, or not having the right equipment or planning to match the weather.

That being said, last March our high adventure backpacking trip had us backpacking through that 100 year rainfall in North Carolina and East Tn. on the hike the year before an unexpected blizzard struck and when I was a scout at the '85 National Jamboree we were hit by an arm of a hurricane. Each time we were prepared or were experienced enought to overcome equipment shortfalls.

The bottom line is that it depends on wether you think and feel that your boys and adults are prepared and if you ever get that "wrong" feeling you need to bug out and fast. Never second guess bad vibes. Sounds all spooky and goofy I know but it is true.

There is no such thing as bad weather only bad gear choices and lack of preparation.

I have seen Eagle projects such as what you describe done for elderly shut-ins.

TANGENT ALERT

Rooster, the wonderland trail? You will love it. Stunning scenery. If you are driving down to the keys be sure to stop in Jacksonville, Florida and we will be glad to host you for an evening. (there will be food involved nudge, nudge)

FYI

That invitation is open to all of you out there.

END TANGENT

For me to grow our troop any more I will need to have much more adult involvement. Currently we have about 40 scouts. Last week we went to summer camp with 4 adults and 31 scouts. Let me tell you, it was almost solid work for us adults. If the math remains the same then when we get to 80 we will have 8 adults. I would definately like more help than that.

The logistics of camping would become very difficult also. Most places around here limit you to about 20 people. I'd have to reserve the whole park to get that many guys in.

But with adequate planning and foresight most anything can be overcome.

I would think like almost everything else the decision would be one for the committee to make.

Oh, by the way Little Dove, that sounds like a really cool alternative to the traditional BSA Summer Camp. Hats off to y'all for putting together a low cost, big fun trip. The boys will never forget going to "their" summer camp.

I think we are missing the real issue.

The patrol method.

Boy Scouts function as a patrol, the patrols come together to make a troop. You can't have the wolf patrol, the eagle patrol, and Junior forming the Troop.

By using the patrol method I assume the boys created the menu. We have had meny picky eaters in the past (some for health, some for religion) and usually the boys are able to build a menu that reasonably accomodates everyone's tastes. Key words "within reason." Part of the maturation process is learning that you can not always get things your way.

Simply tell her you are a Boy Scout Troop and as such you follow the Patrol Method. Patrols plan their menus, buy their food, cook their food together, eat their food together, clean up the mess together among many other things patrols do together. By doing these things together Scouts learn how to come to a consensus, build a healthy menu, budget, shop, cook, clean and function as a team. By delivering fast food the most basic building block of Scouting is being subverted. The Scout learns that he does not need to come to agreements with others, that he does not have to consider others, he does not have to budget, things will be provided for him at a whim, his menu is unhealthy, he does not need to learn how to care for himself in the form of cooking and cleaning, he creates more garbage due to the excessive packaging the fast food come wrapped in, he breaks down teamwork by declaring that he is above the Patrol Method and taunting the other scouts by showing it is true and the adult leaders let him get away with it. In e

You need to stop this now, before she makes another delivery, or next year the whole troop will be doing it and goodbye Patrol Method.

Interesting, I stated my objections to disparaging others faiths on another thread and was blasted for it.

Good news folks!

The Ponil fire is now 100% contained.

You all misunderstand my point and intent, perhaps I could have worded it better but I doubt it would make a difference.

Glad it worked for you but it is not reccomended that you stack positives to shoot a screen. The reason why is that light will creep around the edges and your stensil (ans subsequently your print) will not have a sharp and strong edge to it. A condition known as sawtoothing. Now for what most kitchen table printers are doing stacking positives will work just fine just try to use as few as possible. Just be sure you aren't trying to do any fine detail work. The best way to get it opaque is to use a mechanical pen like a rapidograph pen and use waterproof ink to darken the positive. Rapidograph pens cost about $20 a pop. Get a medium to think line pen.

But hey, it worked right? Theory is nice, results are better.

Kits work great and just I would suggest the one ScoutParent mentioned made by SpeedBall.

T-shirt quality. You get what you pay for. I have printed promotional quality Ts that you could read a newspaper through. Needless to say a thin cheap T prints poorly. There just isn't much material for your ink to grab onto. Most home printers use waterbased inks that sit into the t shirt material. You will want a thicker shirt to give you a nice durable print.

Y'all might want to find a commercial t-shirt supplier to get shirts from. There are many of them on the net now. Just search for "imprintables". All of us have tax ID #s so why not use them? Keep in mind your pricing will depend on the volume you buy. See if you can find someone who is sympathetic to the BSA and ask if they could find it in their hearts to give you Case Pricing. Case Pricing is where you want to be. As far a brands I'd suggest Hanes Beefy Ts, Anvil, Fruit of the Loom and other larger names. Russel Athletic always has quality control issues. Be sure to inspect every shirt you get when you get them and send back anything that isn't up to snuff. Don't be nervous about sending back only T either. That's business as usual in printing.

Printing on a pocket.

Get a piece of plywood or masonite about 5 or 6 inches wide and about 2 feet long. You want it to be as smooth as possible and as rigid as possible. Cut the material so that it will fit into the shirt pocket without distorting the shirt. Be sure to round it off so the end of the board looks like a U when looking down on it. You have just built a pocket palette.

Clamp the palette to a sturdy table so that your U end is pointing towards you and hanging over the edge of the table.

Get some spray tack adhesive and lightly mist the very end of the pallette.

You will want to tape the backside of your screen in case the spray tack tries to pull your stencil off the screen (and trust me, it will try reeeal hard to do just that.)

Fit the pocket over the end of your palette and then take it off to break the tack. The tack should be just that, only tacky enough to just hold the shirt in place but not be hard to take off. Practice loading and unloaded the shirt until you feel confident that you are not distorting the pocket. If you disort the pocket and print on it you design will be a lopsided and funky looking. The rest of the shirt should just be hanging by the pocket. It would be a good idea to get a tall cardboard box for the rest of the shirt to sit on rather than just hang. Less chance of distortion that way.

When ready, position your screen and print that sucker.

The difficult part is removing the shirt without letting it touch itself and smudge. This why is is important not to over-tack the palette. If you practiced loading and unloading you will see exactly what I mean. Most folks over-tack the first time and "nail" the shirt to the palette. When you try to remove the shirt it will "snap" like a rubber band and usually ruin the print.

Hope that helps.

Oh, while you are at it use this a chance to work on Graphic Arts Merit Badge.

I do agree with your definitions Rooster but where we part ways is that I don't find it necessary to call others faiths fraudulent. It is simply enough for me to state that I disagree.

Whoa now Rooster!

Think about what you are posting a little harder.

I'll have to ask you to reconsider your statements regarding Reform Judaism. You could use that same logic to make identical statements about almost all denominations of almost all faiths.

Reverent also means repecting the faiths of others that you don't agree with.

Yaworski.

Care to explain that?

I've been in a fire before while backpacking. It's not something I'll soon forget.

I won't get anywhere near one or the chance of one if I had the option.