Mike Long

Sager please take a look at http://www.asthmastory.com/

I met this man on the Appalachian Trail in the Smokies when he was finishing his 200 mile hike.

He was CURED of asthma. Many medical conditions are now being proved to be caused by viral infections. Ulcers for example. There is strong evidence to suppor that some forms of asthma are too. Might be something to look into for your son.

It is better to find a way to do an activity than to simply say you can't. I have many asthmatics that regularly attend our HA backpacking trips but indeed, every case is different.

1. The only thing I don't like is the shorts.

2. Our troop does just fine with funding because we work hard at earning money ourself.

3. This is not a problem with the BSA program, it's a problem with people who won't use the program.

4. The media only reports sensational news as it is now all about entertainment and not information. Nothing we can do about it other than promote ourselves through sending self written articles to the paper.

5. This is part of #3. Check out the troop program features, lots of fun stuff in there or use your imagination.

6. I can't say too much about it as I was never a cub or involved in cubs.

7. Quit treating them like 10 year olds and baby sitters for 10 year olds or get them into Venturing. It would also help if the adults would drop a few pounds so that they are physicaly able to do activities that interest older scouts. Also part of #3

8. Life is about choices. If you have a boring program then I too would expect kids to quit. See #3

9. Why is it necessary to choose sports Vs. Scouts? The majority of my boys do both.

10. Lots of different ways to have fun, unfortunately many parents promote a sedintary lifestyle. Parent problem not a scout program problem. If you provide an active program then not a problem.

Yes and yes.

That's usually the best way to get the ball rolling.

Just show up in uniform. They will ask why. Just tell them that you believe that scouts wear the uniform to scout meetings and that this is a scout meeting. You are all still scouts even though the rest of the troop isn't looking.

I wouldn't make up any rule or make any grand announcement. They ask a question and you answer. If they ask is it required ask them what they think about it. Let the discussion run for a couple of minutes and then get the PLC meeting underway.

Next PLC meeting I'll bet more of them are wearing the uniform and after a while they all will without you dropping the hammer.

Yes we do. We require uniforms at scout meetings. The PLC is a scout meeting.

I know exactly how you feel.

After college (23) I became active again as an adult leader. Luckily I got involved with a small troop that quickly realized that I indeed have a large amount of experience in the areas they were lacking. So it worked out and they valued my contributions.

A few years later when I became involved on the district and Lodge level. Despite the Assistant Scoutmaster and Committee Chairman patches on my arm (not at the same time y'all) I was treated like a 17 year old. The lodge advisors would try to shepard me out of lodge forums for scouters and the DE would ask if I was in the right place at roundtable meetings. Just this February I MCed an Eagle ceremony for a Scout that I have been a leader for since crossover and the visitors were wondering why the SPL was handing out the award. Get this, I'm 31.

Just do the job assigned to you to the best of your ability.

The bottom line is that quality shines through. However it does take time for some folks to see it so don't expect acceptance overnight or even a few months from now. This takes T I M E.

Offer suggestions but don't tell the other adult leaders that they are doing it wrong. Most folks don't take kindly to people half their age critiquing their work so take a softer approach.

Offer to help organize an event for the troop. Make it something that the troop doesn't normally do that will utilize your strengths.

You obviously have lots of experience from your days as a scout. You are exactly right that this experience gives you a strong advantage in dealing with the boys. You know what kids like to do and not like to do. You are acutely aware of the issues the boys face everyday because you lived it not long ago and find it easier to relate. The scouts will find themselves more comfortable around you. These are facts not opinions.

I do have a warning for you. Don't allow yourself to become the "buddy adult". The boys must understand that you are an adult and that your age doesn't mean that you will "let things slide." I strongly encourage you to NOT let Scouts call you by your first name unless it is preceeded by Mr. When I got involved again the Scoutmaster introduced me as Mike as if I was a Scout. Partly because of that the boys tried to treat me as a scout.

Personally I would not have felt comfortable being a unit commissioner unless I had been a scoutmaster for a few years but if you feel confident (It sure sounds that way) go for it and best of luck.

I suppose when I am 50 I will be very glad that I look young for my age. Don't bother growing a beard, it won't help, I tried.

My troop gets bigger every year.

I don't see a case of shrinking membership around me.

I'm re-reading this thread and I'd like to point out that this family didn't get the message the first two times by being removed from another Scout Troop AND a Girl Scout troop.

What makes anyone think that they are suddenly going to wise up now?

Some folks are content in their lack of class and decency and don't want to change.

I have a problem with scouts wearing patches and other items with their uniform that they didn't earn.

I always understood that the uniform was for (in part) to display achievements earned by the individual scout and not for souviniers (sp?) given to him.

Did he actually attend Philmont in any capacity? If no then don't wear your souviniers with the uniform if yes then wear your achievements with pride.

I am all for keeping kids in the program. I hate the thought of telling a family to go elsewhere. But I refuse to make the Scouts and families of our troop into being unknowing participants in an amatuer mental therapy group for a dysfunctional family.

The other families came here for a reason, that reason is Scouting. Scouting can change people, Scouting can address many faults but Scouting is not a cure-all. We are volunteers not licensed mental health care providers and family counselors.

We can work wonderous positive changes in kids IF THE PARENTS WORK WITH US TOWARDS A COMMON GOAL. This has been proven to me many many times. We can do very little if the kid goes home to parents that denigrate and slander us.

If and when you remove them you need to talk to you charter org about it too. Maybe her removel might help repair the damage to the troop/charter relationship that they caused.

Just a thought that occured to me.

These siblings are 98% of the time little brothers of scouts. Little brothers, I might add, that most likely will eventually be members of your troop.

Why would a troop make them feel unwelcome? As long as there is an understanding between your leadership and the parents why not get to know them, show them what fun scouting is, get them excited about your troop/Scouting and turn them loose to go and get their friends/den mates excited about your troop/scouting too?

Yep, I've allowed them and had no problems. I haven't had anyone just show up before though. If they did they would most likely be turned away for simply being rude trip crashers.

But first all are told the ground rules.

1. Youth protection applies to guests.

2. All Boy Scout activities are just that, Boy Scout activities. They are executed for the sole benefit of the active registered Scouts in our troop. All decisions will be made to that end.

3. Non-Scouts must be in the presence of their parent or legal guardian ONLY. No mom's boyfriend or good buddies allowed.

4. Parents or legal guardians are solely liable for the conduct and safety of their child.

5. Sibling participation is dependent on availability. If we have room for 20 and only 19 commit then that 1 slot can be filled by a sibling.

6. If this is an activity that scouts need to qualify for in order to attend then siblings may not attend. After all, why join scouts if you can just hop on a trip that the other guys have to work for?

7. All guests eat and camp with the adult patrol.

8. I never had to enforce this but if any non-scout causes problems that person is outta here immediately and don't ask to come again.

This should help you out some with printing your own shirts. Otherwise just email me and I'll see what I can do to help.

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=11063

Folks, the term is Screenprinting not Silk Screening despite what your local printer might say.

Ditto Bob White.

This clearly a case for removal.

Not suspension, removal.

I find threats of violence against another and the torture and subsequent killing of a living animal situations that qualify as youth protection violations. If the mother had threatened a scout we would all seek removal so how is it different and less dispicable that she threaten a Scouter? Do you really think that this person should be allowed in influence your Scouts? Do you think that a boy who enjoys killing should be allowed to influence your Scouts? 30 to 60 days would not be enough time to work out emotional/mental issues of this nature.

They don't need scouting, they need a mental health professional and then they might be ready to give scouting another go-round.

I'll tell you right now, do not worry about what these people will say about you. The vast majority of people see right through that garbage. Not only that, those sort of personalities have a not-so-subtle way of being noticed by everyone for what they are and usually have a reputation before they come to you. In the last blow-up I delt with the other parents of the troop found out who the agitator was and all replied that they all had had very negative experiences with her, don't worry about it.

No, never.

Our troop doesn't allow most electronics.

No phones, beepers, games, cd players, radios ect.

The idea is for the scouts to interact and work together not sit by themselves and be self absorbed. One of our primary chartering principles is physical fitness and that purpose is not served by gameboys or other devices that encourage sedentary inactivity. Not to mentioned all the argueing over who's turn is next and why so-and-so won't let me play too.

On long drives bring cards, when at camp and you have any free time (if at all) play with a ball or frisbee with your fellow scouts.

Meetings?!? I almost missed that.

Are your meetings so bad that the boys need to bring games to keep themselves interested and entertained? They are supposed to be scouting at meetings. You know, working on skills, learning, advancing, playing SCOUT games, getting ready for the next big event. That goes double for your actual events.

They want the games because they are bored with your unit. You need to not give them time to be bored by filling their time with scouting.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

Definately a range of ages here. I never wore hard soled leather shoes to school. Those were for church and we wore sneakers to school. Nowadays it has become acceptable to wear sneaks in a corporate office. On Fridays around here I can't tell who is going to work and who is going to the park for a day in the sun.

I prefer to wear my hiking boots with the uniform. Actually, I prefer my hiking boots than wear any other type of shoe.

I have to agree Eisely, all the different goofball looking shoes they make now look tacky with the uniform. In my opinion most of them don't look good with anything, ever.

A few links on this topic

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scouting/rec.scouting.issues/section-12.html

http://members.tripod.com/~kclocke/index-6.html

That's a fig leaf y'all.

It was very common in the victorian era (I believe that's the time frame) for nudes to be reworked to be covered as to not offend the conservative sensabilities of the day. The fig leaf or a well placed piece of drapery became a standard element of neoclassical artwork.

Neoclassical meaning a revival of Greco-Roman styled art.

Although this isn't a neoclassical work it is done somewhat in the neoclassical style hence the fig leaf. There is nothing rude or uncouth about the statue it's just the artist's interperatation of neoclassicism.

There is nothing wrong with the arm, the photo is taken at a bad angle. Usually neoclassical statues are meant to be viewed from the front and the photo is from the side.

I've never owned a pack where it was easy to reach my water bottle. Getting water meant a pack off break and sometimes I don't want to stop but I do want to drink.

Convenience is the key factor in choosing a cell over a bottle. Quick access to water, holds more water, collapses smaller when empty, lighter, easier to drink while moving (kinda hard to do with a wide mouth nalgene), when you fetch water at the end of the day you can carry more water with less fuss (one 110oz cell and filter Vs 3 32oz nalgenes or 5 20oz soda bottles and a filter. In my mind the only time bottles win is in freezing temps.

In a day of backpacking I will empty that 110oz cell by the time I reach camp. No, I don't keep the hose in my mouth, I keep it clipped to my shoulder strap.

I use a quick disconnect spliced into my line to refill mine. I just connect my filter to the line and pump it full.

I also don't put it in a pocket. I lay it under the top flap of my pack and cinch down the flap. Holds it just fine.

Oh yes, one problem with the Camelbak unbottles, the hose is too short.

John Muir also used to hike 30+ miles in a day. I don't care to be like John.

I laughed at hydration systems when I first saw them.

"How nice, something else to blow cash on."

Then I got one and won't hike without it.

First off it is a very bad idea to put anything acidic in the bladder. It will weaken the seams, and knowing scouts, grow some pretty nasty science experiments if not cleaned very throughly. If you just must put gatoraid in it I'd suggest you get a system with a wide mouth opening so cleaning is easier.

If you hike in cold weather the neoprene covers do work to keep your lines from freezing but I found that if it boil water in the morning and cut it 50/50 with outside temp water that my line won't freeze. (at least in the 20 to 30 temp range, it probably won't work if colder)

My favorite set up is the first need hydration system with a built in water filter. Just open the bladder scoop in water from your water source and drink. No pumping. (Be sure you don't get the bite valve in the water source) The problem with this set up is if you need to get your water from a seep or shallow pool then a pump will work much better. I've had to get water out of some very undesireable spots that for now I'm still pumping.

The only real problem that I have seen with hydration systems is that sometimes the hose or bladder gets kinked. Backpacks with internal hydration sleeves are notorious for this, plus you have to practicly unpack you geasr to get it straightened out. Be sure you locate it somewhere that it won't be a pain to get to if you need to adjust it. Scouts that are new to using them I'd suggest checking their setup before backpacking. Lots of times scouts get lazy and choose to simply not drink if the tube gets kinked. Don't let that happen.

Right now I'm using the old Gregory brand Mirage cell. The bite valve is very leaky and of poor construction. The new versions look nice but are heavy.

Several of my scouts use the Camelbak unbottle. Well constructed easy to clean nice bite valve.

Platypus looks chintzy but are stronger than I would think. The zip top models sometimes spring open, the bite valves are nice and are probably the lightest on the market. (for you weight watchers out there)

Even if you do get a hydration system be sure you also carry a water bottle and duct tape. If your bladder blows out you don't want to be left literally high and dry.

Your concern for your son is admirable but you are overreacting in a major way.

Your son is at more risk taking a stroll to the corner store than by taking a trek at Philmont. His Scout training should have prepared him for any situation that presents itself at Philmont or anywhere else. You need to put some faith in his abilites and those of his leaders and the Philmont staff. After all, they have been doing this for quite a while now and have the single best record of any outdoors youth activity camp.

Let him go.

I'm up in the Jacksonville area. During our spring break we take the experienced scouts to the mountains to do a 50 mile backpacking trek. It's a big hit and keep in mind you are only a days drive from the AT in north Georgia and two hours more you have the Smokies.

In the summer we try to do a week long canoe trip. The Suwannee River isn't that far away from you either.

Just make the trips more challenging. Test those skills.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

I agree with OGE with the restitution aspect.

Let me understand this. The adult responsable for the wagon SAW the boys fooling around with it, didn't correct them immediately and then let those same boys be "responsable" for it? That same adult couldn't tell the difference between fun and destruction or potential destruction?

LNT #1 Plan ahead and prepare.

This includes knowing what not to take. At the very least someone needs to learn what are appropriate activities and equipment for a backpacking trip. Wagons are not appropriate and your situation is a good example of why they are not.

Did anyone consider that in the vast majority of trail systems, unless the trail is marked as mixed use that includes biking, that wheeled convayences such as bikes, wagons ect. are illegal and will result in very stiff fines? Also if the trail isn't mixed use that is usually because the treadway is softer and more prone to damage by tires causing erosion.

I sure hope that aspect was checked before you went.

I agree with you Rooster. Intent definately must be considered and should always be a factor. I'll leave that to the Troop Committee to consider.

My list was a set of suggestions. It's up to the Troop Committee to do what they think is appropriate.

In my mind over-reacting would be tossing them out their ears with no further consideration.

The parents should always be aware of any corrective action.

Yaworski, I had the same reaction when I was told about aerosol bans at camp.

Stripping leadership is one thing I was unsure of doing but both of them are JASM and Eagles? I would find it appropriate. Leadership is a position of trust and they have violated that gravely. I have seen aerosol cans blow up, I have also seen cigarette lighters blow up and kill people. This isn't a case of boys fooling around, this is a case of older, experienced boys in positions of leadership promoting life threatening behaviour to younger, inexperienced scouts. That needs to be explained to them in no uncertain terms.

First off they lose the right (Fireman chit) to use anything with a flame. Matches, stoves, lanterns ect. and must re-earn that right. Part of earning fireman chit is teaching fire safety to others.

Second they lose the right to bring aerosol cans. You should think about discouraging these anyway, for a variety of reasons.

Third they obviously haven't seen an aerosol can explode or seen severe burns. How about having them help to arrange a troop trip to visit a burn unit at a local hospital and perhaps a service project on the subject of fire safety.

That's all I can think of for now.