ljnrsu

Acco40, for hiking MB the hiking requirements are:

req 5. Take five hikes, each on a different day, and each of at least ten continuous miles. Prepare a hike plan for each hike.*

req 6. Take a hike of 20 continuous miles in one day following a hike plan you have prepared.*

*The hikes in requirements 5 and 6 can be used in fulfilling Second Class Rank (2a) and First Class Rank (3) rank requirements, but only if Hiking merit badge requirements 1, 2, 3, and 4 have been completed to the satisfaction of your counselor. The hikes of requirements 5 and 6 cannot be used to fulfill requirements of other merit badges.

For backpacking the hiking req is:

req 10. Using Leave No Trace principles, participate in at least three backpacking treks of at least three days each and at least 15 miles each, and using at least two different campsites on each trek. Carry everything you will need throughout the trek.

As a MBC for both backpacking and hiking MB the Scouts can get credit for either a 10 mile hike or credit for a backpacking trek but not both.

Hope this helps.

Congratulations OGE that is great news. They couldnt have made a better choice. Your wise words and humor over the years is appreciated in the forums and by me personally as they helped me thru some rocky times.

 DeanRx time requirement for T-1 was dropped in 1990.

 SR540Beaver you sort of did read it wrong yes there was no project required for Eagle and there was no POR requirement either. POR and project for Eagle was added in 1965. 1965 also added service project for Star and Life in addition to the exsisting conservation project. POR's for Star and Life were added in 1968.

 Scouters.us has a history of Star,Life and Eagle requirements from 1911 to 2000.

 at:   http://www.scouters.us/history.html#anchor681097

Definitely wear your medal. Congratulations to your nephew.

Eagle1977, I agree with you that the placement of the bulls tail is a tradition not a "legend" as others have said. IMHO its a tradition for two reasons.

It's placement is not contrary to any current BSA rules,regulations,policies or procedures. As BW has said the BSA has no rule on its placement. The other is how long Scouts and Scouters have been told by Philmont trading post employees of how the tail is placed. I was told the same thing in 1971 when I purchased the bull after my trek. That because we hiked over the Tooth of Time we could place the tail over the shoulder.

Since Philmont opened in 1939 for camping that makes this year its 69th year and the over the shoulder tail position has been around for at least 37 years therefore in my eyes it's not "legend" but tradition.

Lou

711-E-4 (1971)

edit for content(This message has been edited by ljnrsu)

Having used both the 6th and 7th editions as a scout,joined in 1964 earned eagle and age out (both) in 1971. I would say that the current program has been watered down. Simple proof of this is FCFY. Back then scouts earned about 1 rank per year. You could only work on requirements for your next immediate rank. Each rank had a time requirement and "while a _____ scout do the following:". Requirements were also much more intensive than they are today.Examples taken from the 1969 requirements book:

Second class: #7 do the following (a) Identify local plants that may cause skin poisoning. (b) Find and identify in the field 10 different links of wildlife (mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish, insects) or evidence of them. Tell what they are, describe the natural surroundings where each was found, and explain how this wildlife depends on plants. Ten distinctly different kinds of wildlife must be identified. For example, a crow can be counted only once even though a nest is seen, a feather found, its call heard, and the bird actually seen. Furthermore, exact identification must be made from obesrvation or evidence. For example, the nest mentioned earlier must be identified as a crow's nest and not just a bird's nest.

# 9(b) Build a fire on a safe spot using not more than two matches. © On this fire, cook-without utensils-a meal from raw meat (or fish or poultry) and at least one raw vegetable. The term "without utensils" means without such itemd as cook kits, foil, tin cans, and other items manufactured for cooking purposes. Native materials such as kabob sticks, green stick broilers, etc, may be used where permissible.

Life: #2 While a Star Scout, plan develope, and carry out Scoutmaster approved projects in each of the following areas: (a) Church or synagogue, school, or community service. (b) Conservation Submit one project from a and one from b.

italics copied from requrements book

For Eagle you had to earn both swimming and lifesaving merit badges there were no "or" options.

I could go on and on about the differences between rank and merit badge requirements then and now. The easiest way is to see the differences is to check troop library if they have the handbooks or requirements books from back then and see the differences.

(This message has been edited by ljnrsu)(This message has been edited by ljnrsu)

I agree with what others have posted that a boy starts working on Boy Scout requirements after he has joined a Troop.

Earning Merit Badges for Tenderfoot,2nd Class and 1st Class was a requirement that began in June 1972 with the introduction of the Eighth Edition of the Boy Scout Handbook.

Tenderfoot earn any one merit badge, 2nd Class earn two more merit badges, 1st Class earn two more merit badges (this is a total of five of which two, Citizenship in the Community and First Aid are required). Other changes included the introduction of twelve skill awards and increasing the number of merit badges needed to be earned for Star 9, Life 15, and Eagle 24.

The introduction of the Ninth Edition of the Boy Scout Handbook in Feb 1979 removed earning merit badges for Tenderfoot,2nd Class. First Aid merit badge was required for 1st Class. The amount of merit badges earned for Star,Life and Eagle was decreased. Star a total of 6, Life a total of 11 and Eagle a total of 21.

The rank of Boy Scout was added:

1. Complete fifth grade and be atleast 10 1/2years old or be 11 years old or older, but not 18 years old.

2. Understand and intend to live by the Scout Oath or Promise, Scout Law, Scout motto,and Scout slogan.

3. Know the Scout sign, Scout salute and handclasp and when to use them.

4. Understand the significance of the scout badge.

5. Take part in a personal growth agreement conference.

The EBOR is required to explain in writing the reason for denial and explain the appeal procedures. You could contact Council and have them explain the appeal procedures.

I would start an appeal of this decision. IMHO the DAC should not have sat on the EBOR as he was told to convene the EBOR by Council. What happened to this Scout is a shame, he proceeded on the project based on what he thought was an approval. E-mail and verbal approvals are not that unheard of.

Keeping notes of hours the Eagle candidate worked on planning and completing the project,along with the names dates and hours worked of who assisted in the project is a necessity. One of the pages in the workbook asks the number of hours the candidate spent in planning and carrying out the project. It also asks for the names,dates and hours worked of those who worked on the project.

Considering what the workbook requires in hours spent I do not think what your Council Advancement Committee is asking is adding to the requirement. I think they are only helping the candidate in what he needs to have available in those regards.

As for the DAC's wanting everything on computer I will defer to Lisabob's reply.

I can't comment on not having MS word. The computers I have purchased since 1999 that program was included in preloaded software package.

Kudu writes:

 Specific leadership advancement requirements were not added until this 1972 move away from Hillcourt's traditional Methods. It is the pressure of these advancement requirements that causes this "upset" and the tendency of adults and Scouts to "see it from an advancement perspective more than anything else."

 A lot of things changed with the movement to "urban Scouting" in 1972 the leadership requirement was not one of them.

 The leadership requirement for Star,Life and Eagle ranks was added in 1968.

  Star Scout requirement #4 "While a First Class Scout,serve actively as a troop warrent officer(patrol leader, senior patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, junior assistant Scoutmaster, instructor, scribe, quartermaster, librarian, den chief) or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned project to help the troop. (1968 Boy Scout Requirements pg 8)

 The idea of a Scout must be Eagle is adding to the requirement of JASM. The only requirement is "A Scout at least 16 years of age who has shown outstanding leadership skills may be appointed by the senior patrol leader, with the advice and consent of the Scoutmaster" (The Senior Patrol Leaders Handbook 2003 pg 110)

 The only requirement for JASM that has stayed consistant since atleast 1945 is one of age. I have 6 different editions of Scoutmaster Handbooks dating back to 3rd edition March 1945 printing.

 The position of JASM is very near and dear to my heart. Being appointed as JASM as a 16 yr old Star Scout in Jan 1970 is what kept me in scouting. Was also active in HS sports and CAP and had decided to leave scouts. It was because of the appointment as JASM and new responsibilities that went along with it that I stayed in scouting and eventually earned Eagle. It is what kept an older Scout who was in a rut in Scouting.

First let me say hello and welcome CM570.

A listing of scouting forms along with requirements and progress records for Adult awards can be found here http://www.scouting.org/forms/

How to motivate scouts who are not advancing the age old question.

There are many ways you could try to motivate your troop on advancement. You could sit with your SPL or PLC and discuss what you are seeing with regards to advancement. Get their suggestions on what can be done and at the same time you could also make your own suggestions(plant seeds). At that time you could remind them that having their scout handbooks at meeting/trips is important to help teach the requirements and for having requirements signed off as completed.

You could suggest the SPL/PL have one on one conferences with the scouts who are forgetting have things signed off. Have them list the requirements they feel the scout has done but not been signed off on because they forget to bring their handbooks.

Have SM conferences with the scouts and do the same. Make your own list up of requirements that you feel the scouts have done but not been signed off on. Let the scouts know if they bring their handbooks those requirements can be signed off. Remind them that without their handbook no one knows where they stand on what is needed for their next rank. I do realize that Troopmaster and other such programs does keep track of ranks above first class in regards to MB's earned.

SM conferences are just not for scouts advancement they can be used for scouts who are not advancing in rank.

I am sure you have your own ideas on what could be done.

Over many years of working with scouts I have learned that the idea of they are responsible for their own advancement is foreign to many scouts. They are used to having teachers/parents tell them what to do and when do do it. Those scouts need gentle reminders of where they stand and what they need to do.

Congrats may this be the first of many many meetings where you sit and only watch your scouts at work. It is a great feeling when you see everything come together.

Was interrupted and I left out something important in my original post. Your Charter Organization must be a tax exempt organization and hold an sales tax exempt certificate issued by your state.

Sales tax exempt status varies via state. Most states have automatic exemptions for churches/synagogues.

FScouter for your state that could be very true. I am not well versed in every states sales tax laws as my tax accounting practice is limited to NJ and NY entities. Which is why I said to check with the Charter Organization as to their status.

Your Charter Organization is responsible for the tax exempt ID# that you would use. The reason being is that for all tax reporting purposes your unit is considered a subsidiary of the Charter Organization.

Hope this helps you.

Have used Woolite to wash my canvas pack a couple of times and it did a good job of getting a stain out. Other than that Calico's great post covered everything else.

Still using a canvas backpack that I bought in late 60's as a scout. With that said, don't think you were wrong in getting a canvas pack. I have always kept my pack indoors. I would not recommend storing it in a garage or damp basement. Since I keep mine semi packed with camping stuff I either store it between trips flat on floor of closet or under my bed. That way there is no stress on the packs mounting points.

If your pack has zippers on the pockets would recommend lubricating them with graphite or wax. If leather straps and buckles would use leather conditioner to keep them soft and from drying out.

Hope this helps you.

Nice to have MC's that want to take training.

EagleInKY is referring to Troop Committee Training Kit (cat # D33643). Your scout shop may have a copy or they could order it for you.

Packsaddle as a fellow eagle I couldn't agree more with your eloquent post.

There are times that people forget that while a scout had help along the way in attaining the rank of Eagle it was his alone to attain. We can push,prod,guide and sometimes as parents even threaten. When it is all said and done if that individual doesn't have that desire,want and goal then there isn't anything anyone can do.

Eagles are individuals just like anyone else and should be treated as such. The virtues that Eagles have is widely recognized in both the public and military sectors.

As you so aptly put "It is their achievement. And theirs to dishonor if that is what the future holds".

Gern and Brent you both have great lists of famous Eagle scouts.

Not wanting to cause anyone disgust but there is someone who comes to mind that fits the other part of the threads title.

He was both an Eagle scout and at one point a Scoutmaster. Charles Whitman, not the ideal Eagle scout nor Scoutmaster role model.

MaScout, scottteng, FScouter, EagleInKY, and Ed have all given correct information.

The choice between optional ER badges occurs when completing the Eagle Application. A scout could have earned all 5 of the optional ER badges in order to fulfill requirements for Star and Life as the requirement states any of the 15 ER badges may be used.

The Eagle Application has the following footnote in requirement 3:

*Cross out badges not earned. If a crossed-out badge was earned, it may be reentered in 13 through 21.

Four of these required merit badges were earned for the Star Scout rank and three more were earned for the Life Scout rank.

Effective April 1, 1999.

When approved by National the date of EBOR will be used on the Eagle confirmation letter and subsequent Eagle package documents.

My Council's Scout shop,a National Scout shop, requires the confirmation letter to buy or order an Eagle presentation kit. They also require documentation to purchase Eagle rank badges or Eagle medals.

What does surprise me is that without waiting the few weeks for the Eagle confirmation letter his parents were able to acquire an Eagle rank badge.

Our Troop tells the parents that nothing is official until Eagle confirmation letter is received. They are also told that the Eagle rank badge will be awarded the meeting after the confirmation letter is received and Eagle presentation kit is purchased.

Other than what you find in G2SS or age-appropriate guidelines, you won't find Official BSA backup to prove that they can use them.

It is up to the unit to decide what the guidelines are in respect of what can be used, who can use them and what supervision is required. A unit decides what level of risk and liability exposure they are willing to accept if something happens and someone becomes injured.

While some may call these "rules", "urban ledgends". In this specific case I see them as covering your tail. They very well might limit your exposure in a lawsuit.

Unfortunately in todays society lawsuits are all to prevalent when someone becomes injured.

If a scout becomes injured,we all know about Mr.Murphys law. It will be that Units leaders who are named as defendants, sitting in a courtroom with their insurance and pockets on the line if a monetary judgement is awarded.

Congrats to the new Eagle and to the new Eagle Mom and Eagle Dad.

Remember that fiasco well,June 1972-Feb 1979, era of Urban Scouting. The outing left scouting and membership dropped over 30% during that nightmare. As much as he tried in writing the Ninth of the Boy Scout Handbook Bill Hillcourt could not undo all the damage that was done by "Urban Scouting".

 I have to agree with LongHaul and Beavah on this. Its up to the SM's discretion on what to accept as hours for Star and Life service projects.

 "While a FirstClass/Star Scout,take part in service projects totaling at least 6 hours work. These projects must be approved by your Scoutmaster."

 The approval is for the project the Scout is working on to fullfil for his advancement requirement.

 "Star and Life service projects may be approved for Scouts assisting on Eagle Service projects." (33215  p. 20, my emphasis).

 It doesn't say "must be or can't be" it says "may be". "may be" leaves it up to the SM's discretion on what to accept. Its a choice the SM needs to make, whether accepting or not accepting working on another Scouts project fullfils the requirement.

As for the original post of a SM requiring leading a service project for Life, thats for the CO / IH and COR to decide if its adding to the requirements. They are the ones who are responsible for the unit and how the program is being delivered to the Scouts. The post doesn't say what prompted this change in projects or if there even was one. There could be a reason other than what was stated we are not privy to. Without all the pieces its kinda hard to a meaningful decision.