le Voyageur

Been awhile since hiking the John Muir.... this trail should be on every backpacker's bucket list even if they've got the AT under their belt... however, know that this isn't a trail for the novice, lots of ducks to get in a row

I'll argue the other side just because I like to argue....

 

While I agree knots are an important skill and have some long tradition in scouts, they are a bit of an anachronism. We don't teach kids today how to type on typewriters because they'll never use one. Kids don't use the card catalog in the library because there's a computer. Kids don't carry quarters in the pockets anymore because they have a cell phone for emergency calls. Kids are starting to leave text books behind in favor of e-books. Kids don't care about map and compass because they have GPS and phones. Kids don't retain knots because there are bungy cords and Velcro and webbing with friction buckles and/or come-alongs to take the place of rope for many tasks. Kids just don't see the value in knots. And they won't until the cute girl needs to move and they can tie-down something in the back of their pick-up.

 

Some of the knots the scouts teach, like the bowline, seem to be falling out of favor. We're sponsored by a fire department which teaches their members to use a figure 8 w/follow-through or a figure 8 on a byte to put a loop in the end of a rope. That's also the knot the scouts learn at the local climbing gym to put the belay rope on their harness. The logic offered by the FD is the figure 8 is easier to tie correctly, creates less load-bearing reduction on the line when tied, and is easier to untie (I do question the last point). When one of the "big" knots is questioned by other professionals as less than appropriate, it puts a huge dent in the rest of the knots program.

 

Finally, I'd argue that some folks do get obsessed with the means (knots) over the ends (character). Ultimately, we can plot character and competence on a two-dimensional chart to measure any scout. Sure, we'd like for all the scouts to be in the upper-right (high-competence/high-character) quadrant. However, I think we can be equally successful when scouts end up in the low-competence/high-character quadrant simply because the character part is the ultimate goal here. I'd certainly take a scout in either high-character quadrant over a low-character/high-competence scout any day. Even the Army is questioning where they are on the character vs. competence grid (http://www.stripes.com/news/army/chandler-emphasizes-character-commitment-in-talks-with-troops-1.242931)

 

Now, queue the responses about how I'm a wood badge loving management type. I can take it. .

 

We don't need no stinkin regulations. As some on this board have pointed out the apocalypse has already started, so what's to point ?

Knew this would happen....Was just a matter of time....... http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/scie...lvania-stream/

No Bibles,.......Just Thoreau, Abbey, the Tao and a canoe........

The Seychelle is a purifier, not a filter.... from there website "The bag features Seychelles's in-line filter which contains EPA approved iodinated resin for extra safety, which has been proven effective against bacteria and virus to a reduction of up to six logs (99.9999%). Therefore, under EPA guidelines, the water bag filtering system is a water purifier. It also removes up to 99.99% of chlorine, chemicals, VOC’s, heavy metals and micro-organisms such as Giardia, E-Coli and Cryptosporidium"... The Pur filters are not in the same ball park. They'll remove the bugs, but not the nitrates and nitrites found in farm runoffs, nor the heavy metals found in storm runoffs from urban areas... To date, I'm still running water quality test on this bag, I'll soon be approaching the 50 gallon mark at which time I'll compare results with those at the 1st and the 25th gallon. Besides salt water, about the only other contaminants that I can think of that the Seychelle can't handle (or any filter) would be a water and petroleum mix of gasoline, and motor oils as well as battery acids which was common in the flood waters from our last hurricane..

While the vote was the “catalyst,†it wasn’t the only issue, he said. Rather, it was the Boy Scouts’ direction and the desire to keep the church from getting caught up in it, he said. “We want everyone, including ourselves, to live by biblical standards,†Hester said. The way I read that is. "The BSA was not Christian enough for us and would not let us take them over, they are heritics"

Used one for several years...had the same problem to the point that it was no longer reliable for back country travel. As such, I've upgraded to the Seychelle's. Unlike the Basecamp, the Seychelle has two prefilters, the advanced filter (purifier) and the bag is ballistic nylon. At 40 bucks, it's the better buy then the Basecamp at 70 to 80....

http://store.seychelle.com/Pure_Water_Bag-Pure_Water_Bag_Advanced.html

http://www.bikemap.net/en/#gsc.tab=0

http://mobac.sourceforge.net/

http://www.velomap.org/

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/

Links for those with Garmin devices

http://www.garmin.com/en-US/shop/downloads/basecamp

http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/

It looks like those bacteria test take 48 hours and at least one of the other tests had a sit time of 24 hours. How are you using those in the back country? Or are you just counting on your filters?

Could you post a link to the test kits

 

I have drank from a few streams and just wondered........While they were remote most of the areas we backpack in are reclaimed......So you never know what is in the water.

Here's the links http://www.filters-now.com/products/www.html#WFWW487197?CA_6C15C=1400808742 http://www.firstalert.com/home-security/environmental-test-kits/home-test-kits/wt1 http://www.prolabinc.com/pesticides.html http://www.prolabinc.com/bacteria-in-water.html The filters I'm now using http://store.seychelle.com/Pure_Water_Bag-Pure_Water_Bag_Advanced.html http://store.seychelle.com/Pure_Water_Straw-Radiological_Drinking_Straw.html

This season I've added the following to my kit...a water test kit for heavy metals, chemicals and pesticides; and, an e coli test kit to ensure that my purifier is doing it's job when it has reached it's half way point, and at three fourths of it's useful lifespan. Any postive results at these stages, and the filter is replaced....

Never had a problem backpacking with just light weight sneakers ... the only time I consider a boot is, if I need to use crampons, or in cactus country.. Might consider a fewl easy trails to see if a lighter shoe is the answer. Just be aware that when it comes to gear. be it boots or whatever of the hype factor which is to drain your wallet....the only defense against hype is experience....

I've always wanted to go to Yosemite. I don't know why, but I've always been fascinated by geysers/volcanoes/pretty much any natural disaster, I've written three different school papers on natural disasters, one on the general subject, one on volcanoes/earthquakes, and a third on tornados/hurricanes. Be sure to visit Old Faithful for me.

I've always wanted to go to Yosemite. I don't know why, but I've always been fascinated by geysers/volcanoes/pretty much any natural disaster, I've written three different school papers on natural disasters, one on the general subject, one on volcanoes/earthquakes, and a third on tornados/hurricanes. Be sure to visit Old Faithful for me.

If I had the opportunity I would change the focus from merit badges to high adventure. Setup a rappelling/climbing area(a real cliff if one is available), a waterfront with small boat sailing, use one of the days to go on a whitewater rafting trip(when I say whitewater, I mean Class IV rapids, where it's necessary to have a guide in the raft with you), possibly setup a ropes course(or take a day trip to a ropes course), ziplines, or even go caving. That pretty much covers the best high adventure activities, BTW I have done all those except for caving.

IIf I may, I'm not a Unit Leader, but a Council Member at large that serves as a river guide for our Council's high adventure programs. It's from that perspective that I'm coming from. . As canoeists we've more options then backpackers as to weight...... following LNT guide lines, we've said goodby to campfires except on those rare occasions where fires are permitted, and are now using Stansports Outfitter propane stoves with 5 gallon tanks as they are more efficent for groups then Whisperlites, and Pocket Rockets. As such, the safety concerns of using PC's (mine is a Hawkins 3L hard anodized) isn't an issue since the stoves have controllable burners. However, you are most correct concerning the placement of PC's on campfires, or coals which should never be done......thanks for bringing that concern up...

We have done the cave overnight thing in the past. The 'sanitary' issues are troubling enough to the boys and the leaders that we now opt to do the caving thing and then camp outside the cave in tents. Seems to remove all the ambiguity as well as the 'sanitary' concerns. The food is better too.

Been wondering why I've never used PC's in the outdoors. I've now become aware that traditional pots and kettles waste fuel, a lot of fuel compared to a PC... made beef stew, done in 20 minutes vice 1.5 hours. And my favorite bean recipe, down from 2 hours and 30 minutes to just 15.....steel cut oats with dried apples, a mere 7 minutes...talk about a wake up call for this old dog.....

I've been away from this forum for a while and decided to poke my head up here...needless to say, this was more then a shock. I never met OGE in person, but we did become friends sharing our love of reenacting via emails and messages. Belated sympathies to the Arno family, your John and our OGE will indeed be missed... en roulant mon ami.

Boiling is pasteurization, not sterilization. Boiling will kill, or render harmless most bacteria, where as sterilization kills everything. The problem of concern are spores. which can not be deactivated and render harmless by boiling, the temperture is too low... thus, the pressure cooker serves an autoclave that will raise the temp to sterilize water. Additionally, at higher elevations boiling becomes less effective. I know for backpackers that weight is everything...but, that small amount of additional weight is not a concern for canoeing. However, for those interested both Hawkins and GSI makes small backpackable PC's... Also, it would not suprise me, that within a few years to see NOLS, as well as other outdoor groups going this route as water quality continues to decline ...

http://store.seychelle.com/Products-Pure_Water_Straw.html

Besides currently owning three PC, and a Pressure Canner that could hold a nuke .... I'm far more interested in making pickles, jams and jellies, then bombs....got no interest in harming others, so, no concern. If some agency has concerns, they're free to drop by. I'll serve black coffee, scones with homemade butter along with homemade blackberry jam.....but, switching horses to this

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/04/glob...worse_partner/

Boiling is pasteurization, not sterilization. Boiling will kill, or render harmless most bacteria, where as sterilization kills everything. The problem of concern are spores. which can not be deactivated and render harmless by boiling, the temperture is too low... thus, the pressure cooker serves an autoclave that will raise the temp to sterilize water. Additionally, at higher elevations boiling becomes less effective. I know for backpackers that weight is everything...but, that small amount of additional weight is not a concern for canoeing. However, for those interested both Hawkins and GSI makes small backpackable PC's... Also, it would not suprise me, that within a few years to see NOLS, as well as other outdoor groups going this route as water quality continues to decline ...