ASM7

We use troop tents for a few reasons;

1. It fits into the uniforming of the troop. Everybody has the same and nobody can say mine's better than yours.

2. To be able to control how the tent has been used. If a boy brings his own tent, we can't guarantee that food hasn't entered the tent somehow. Critters can smell food in a tent months after. Even a candy wrapper.

3. Parents have enough to buy as it is.

4. Looks better and more organized.

By the way most of our boys prefer to stretch a tarp between a couple of trees or their ski poles that we use for hiking. It's a lot less weight and they can tie two half hitches and taut-line hitches with their eyes closed.

As far as temperatures go, while using one of those dual thermometers, I measured outside and inside temps one cold night snow camping. While getting into the bags, temps in the tent were warmer, but when I woke in the middle of the night the temps inside and out were the same due to good bags. Now, the leaders always use a tarp. Its easier, lighter and when put up right keeps the rain and the wind out. Anybody else do this?

wffarrell

I agree with Bob White. The scouts don't typically respond well to adult planned meetings. They should have left that behind in Cub Scouts. As leaders, that's not our place. You may be trying to do too much. The PLC is the planning committee. Give them the resources and let it happen. Make sure they go through JLT and JLTC. If they are still bored, then they can only blame themselves. It may be unstructured for a while, but let them lead the troop. Too many adults running around telling everyone what to do is sometimes counterproductive in establishing boy leaders. The boys should plan games and activities for the troop as part of the meeting. If they are not having fun, something is wrong.

Hope this helps and keep us posted

YIS

Doug

The answer is No. Besides, whats the reason for the fireworks anyway?

Our district is currently looking at a District level Venture Crew, sponsored by a community wide organization rather than individual sponsors like a church. The thinking is that one big venture crew would be more attractive to the older teenagers. The first big event to draw them in is the Council Ski trip. A special package that covers skiing, transportation, food, and a t-shirt at a real bargain. Other high adventure trips are being planned. It's showing promise.

Doug

The adults have to be nominated for the award and shouldn't know about it if they are. If you are of the United Methodist persuasion go to www.naums.org

Doug

Some institutions require the participants to be members of the institution, others do not. Chech out www.praypub.org/main_frameset.htm

This is the website for PRAY. You can pull up your institution and find out the requirements.

Doug

littlebillie

Sorry for the typo. The verse I meant to add was Amos 4:13. Some other verses that may help are: Matthew 5:45, 1 Kings 18:1, Job 14:18, Genesis 7:4.

These are passages that say God sends the wind and the rain. Job 14:18 talks about erosion. Hope this helps.

Doug

le Voyageur

Sounds like a revelation to me.

Doug

littlebillie

If you believe in creation, then your belief is based on faith. Faith in the Creator. So, instead of asking those who believe, why not ask the Creator himself. The answer may not be the one you were looking for, but it will be the correct one. I believe that science is the progression of man's knowledge of God's work. There is a joke that I feel like fits here:

A group of scientists were talking about all that they knew and could do. They came to the conclusion that they could do anything that God could. At that point God appeared and they told him of their conclusion. So God picked up a handful of clay and formed a living human being. One of the scientists said that he could do that also and picked up a handful of clay. God stopped him and said, "No, use your own clay".

The more we learn the more I believe.

Doug

Amos 5: 13

I thought some of you would want to know this. This was emailed to me through the United Methodist Men.

October, 2002 - The General Commission on United Methodist Men (GCUMM)

proudly announces the first overseas shipment of "Strength for Service for

God and Country" devotional books to US military personnel. Chaplain Warren

(Randy) Robnett said, "be assured they will be distributed to our military

men and women who are serving their country, any time, any where."

Originally, published in 1942 as a World War II-era devotional book, the

newly revised edition is the product of an Eagle Scout project by Evan

Hunsberger, a Boy Scout in Southern California. Chaplain Robnett further

comments, "We count it a blessing to be a small part of a young Boy Scout,

Evan Hunsberger's vision, and the support of the Methodist Men group to

continue the heritage of this 'little book.' Please express our deep

appreciation to your staff and supporters for their generosity to the Air

Force Chaplain Service and to the men and women at our deployed sites."

United Methodist Men have set the goal of supplying up to million devotional

books to our military and public safety professionals. If you would like to

contribute to this great cause please mail donations to GCUMM, PO. Box

440515, Nashville, TN 37244-0515 or call (615) 340 7145.

God and Country

I think the only mention of separation of church and state was in a writing by Jefferson, but nowhere in the constitution or any amendment is a mention of it. And the 1st amendment certainly doesn't.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

This means you have the right to exercise any religion you want and they can't tell you what religion that will be.

And by the way, all of the signers beleived in God. As a matter of fact they were all Christians.

The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,

Definition of atheism is a denial of the existence of God. So it's not a religion, but a denial of religion.

The lawsuit states that all of the plaintiffs beleive in a separation of Church and state. However the ruling will be based on law and not their belief.

Doug

Nov. 6, anno Domini 2002

Merlyn

I only speak for myself, but I think that most posters on this forum will agree with me. You will not change anyone's mind. You are wasting your time. If you have anything to say for the good of Scouting, please do. If you have anything constructive to add, I would be interested. If you think the BSA discriminates against Athiests. You are dead on track. Because to be discriminating is a good thing. But it does not discriminate against any r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n. Too many people think of discrimination as the same as prejudice. They are totally different. To discriminate is a human right. Part of our free will to choose. You obviously discriminate against the BSA and people who believe in God. That's your right. It only means that your eternity will be much different from mine, unless you someday beleive the way I do. I pray that it happens soon for you. God loves you Merlyn.

Doug

RobK

I like your idea of the Athiest Scouts of America. Merlyn's efforts would be better served by using his God given talents toward forming this organization. I'm sure young boys all over the country would knock down the doors of his organizational meeting to become members.

Let's see, how could we start out the meeting? With the pledge of allegience? No, it's got that part about one nation under God. And wait a minute. We couldn't use the name Athiest Scouts of America. America's motto is "In God We Trust". Of course we need an oath of some kind. Maybe, "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to myself, because I only believe in me." And we need Chartering organizations, right. Well maybe the military bases or the schools will do it. I can see the parents lining up with their kids right now. I guess we can sign up kids when they come out of the Harry Potter movie. And don't go on any camping trips because the scouts would wonder how all of nature came to be. Keep them in the big cities where all they see is created by the almighty man/woman. This could really take off!

Doug

Merlyn

I am anxious to know your opinion of the origin of the laws that you you think are being broken. Where do these morals come from. Why are laws based on good

rather than evil. What one human decided that stealing, murder, rape and any other crime is against the law. It had to be human, right? I'm looking for the origin. What do you think?

Doug

TJ

Let me try to explain my feelings about something you tried to explain.

From what I've read of your posts, the term "Faith Based" seems to be giving you the most problem. I think that maybe you are trying to associate the words with a certain religion or church. The religions and churches started because of faith or a belief in God. To believe in God you have to have faith. God is not physical like everything else that we see, feel, hear, taste, or measure. Trying to put God in man's terms just doesn't make sense. According to what I have been taught, man is not capable of understanding what God is. He is beyond our limits of comprehension. Trying to comprehend and explain God is what a lot of people have a problem with. Hence the Atheists. "I can't prove it, so I don't believe it." That's what faith is all about.

All of this was a feeble attempt to try and explain that Duty to God is based on faith. We have to accept the fact that we can't prove God exists and accept the fact that he does on faith and nothing else. So, to promise a duty to God, we are saying that we are faith based. The values come from the laws that were handed down by God. All of our ethics and laws are based on those laws. In that respect, the government of this country produces laws based on ethics, morals that came from where? Who decided that murder, rape, stealing, were all bad things? It could have gone exactly the opposite direction, like the animal world, where just about anything goes. I beleive that God sent down laws to man. Those laws have been replicated in the form of the laws that we now live by. So, in a way the government is faith based derived.

If none of this made sense, then you will just have to have faith that I think I know what I'm talking about.

Doug

Merlyn

I guess you are just going to avoid my direct questions from 10-31.

Doug

Bria ah Merlyn

Just a few questions for you.

Are you a Scouter?

Have you ever been a Scout?

Do you believe in God?

If you answered no to the first two questions, why participate in this forum of dedicated Scouters? You don't seem to have anything constructive to add.

janssenil

Many home schooled boys do great in Boy Scouting because the programs and merit badge studies and requirements work well in aiding the planning of the curriculum. Show the Mother the advancement requirements and a list of merit badges. Scouting is also a great way for the boys to develop social skills and to meet other youth, not to mention it's great fun.

Hang in there,

Doug

Merlyn

I went to that site like you suggested. I found nothing about Scouting there.

Doug

Merlyn

Maybe you need to go back and read the website. The Pack was originally sponsored by the base, but now is sponsored by the Commanding Officer. So yes, I was right.

Doug

Merlyn

If you go to Pack 4567's website and look at their bylaws, you will see that National BSA policies have precedence over any of theirs. So yes they can exclude athiests. And by the way, according to their section on leaders, they do not have one.

Doug

Are you referring to Walter Tetley of "Sherman" fame. If you are, I didn't know of his involvement in Scouting. Maybe you could shed some light.

Thanks

Doug

tjh

He sounds like he is a good kid, and he certainly sounds like he would acknowledge the importance of selflessness and that there is a greater power than lies solely within him (nature? humanity?). His respect for the things of nature, not unlike most Scouts, is probably one of awe. His respect for mankind probably far exceeds just the accountability of man's laws and rules. And while he doesn't want to put a name on this (God), he probably wouldn't have any trouble acknowledging the underlying beliefs are there, nonetheless.

maybe you read to much into what this young man is saying. You talk like you know him very well. You don't know anything about him, except that he is a proclaimed atheist, not an agnostic. He does not believe in a God of any kind and does not fit into the program. As a scout leader, I don't have to respect anyone's belief. I have to respect their right to believe. He is not a believer. He is a non-believer.

redfeather

To think of removing his Eagle should not be even considered, it was earned as a youth and approved by BSA.

And if he professed to be an athiest before he received Eagle, then he received it falsely. The Eagle Award is too prestigious to give to those that fall short. And yes it can be taken away.

Her's the link to the newspaper article with a picture of Darrell Lambert.

http://www.thesunlink.com/news/2002/october/1029eaglescout.html.

Doug

I can see where a young scout just joining, would be able to say the oath each week and not put a lot of credence in the meaning. I don't see how as he grows older he would be able to say it and continue with the program. How did this get past the BORs previously. The Scout leaders are not doing their job in promoting duty to God. What organization charters the troop? Is the Mother (Scoutmaster) a beleiver? If not, then she needs to go also.

The Tenderfoot rank is the only rank where the scout does not have to "Denonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life". This needs to be changed. Even the Scout joining requirements has the new Scout to agree to live by the Oath and Law.

I understand that maybe he changed his belief after getting Eagle, but he should not be allowed to lead if he does not comply. If he did beleive this way before getting Eagle then he and all of the BOR members will have to live with the fact that none of them did their jobs. The Eagle BOR has to be unanimous. This should really be looked at by the District or Council Advancement Committee of which one member should be on the Eagle BOR. Something is really wrong here.

Doug