KoreaScouter

Searchers are aware that lost kids may avoid them due to parental cautions about strangers, embarrassment, fear (particularly if search dogs are involved), fatigue, what have you. There are protocols for this, to include calling the lost child's name continuously, so he knows they're looking for him; distinctive clothing or identification to make all of them, even the volunteers, appear "official"; markers or tags that identify areas already searched, AND contain "get found" instructions for the lost kid if he sees the marker; making sure that a significant percentage of the searchers are women. There are others, but you get the point.

It's funny how we default to what our parents taught us, which is what their parents taught them. The stranger warning is one, and one that just can't be complied with from a practical standpoint. Another is the "find a policeman if we get separated" instruction. Both go back to small towns or insular neighborhoods, where everyone knew everybody else, and beat cops were on every corner. Welcome to the 21st century. To a little kid, the FedEx guy might look like a cop, and many people don't know their next door neighbors' names, let alone anything about them. When my kids were little, I told them that if we got separated, find the nearest woman with small kids, walk up to her, and tell her you can't find your parents. In five minutes, we'll be reunited. It works, just think about it.

KS

Procrastinators are a challenge, but they're easier to deal with than somebody who commits to something, then doesn't deliver. The former are an annoyance, and easy to deal with. The latter can torpedo an event. I've been burned by them in every unit I've been in, and people like that don't get a second chance with me. I've had them volunteer for things later on, and I always tell them I don't need their help.

I've never understood people who agree to do something because they think it's what you want to hear, with no intention of following through on it. I've got a thick skin, if you can't do something or don't want to, just tell me, I won't break down in tears.

KS

So, there isn't a single registered leader from the Crew going on the outing? Excuse me, is there a unit commish in the house?

KS

I too have a Sony, a DCS-75 3.2 megapixel -- got it several years ago, and am really satisfied with picture quality, video capability, etc. At the highest resolution and on optical zoom, the 3.2 looks great up to an 8X10 print. If you zoom a lot farther, or need larger prints, get a higher-res camera. I don't like the little jog/shuttle five position multi-button on the back though -- common on Sony cameras and just too small for my big stupid thumb to operate smoothly.

I use 64MB sticks, and get 40 pictures on a stick at the highest resolution. So, you should get 80 on a 128, 160 on a 256, etc.

As far as shutter lag is concerned, I've found that if I press the button halfway down when I'm framing the shot, the rangefinder will do it's thing, then when the shot's ready, push the button the rest of the way, and the shutter will fire immediately.

I'll never go back to film...

KS

CNY:

After reading your initial post, I have to tell you that the handsome gentleman off to the side who appears to be kneeling in prayer is actually me, and what I'm actually doing is lacing up my New Balances, so I can....RUN!!! As fast as I can, with Eamonn, and hopefully you, too, and others who want to join a Boy Scout Troop...

KS

As long as they're willing to carry in, unpack, repack, and carry back out, I don't have an issue with chairs. Those compact lightweight outfits they have now are quite comfortable, and easily toted by even first year Scouts.

You know, you'll always run into the doctrinal purist who doesn't think we should use anything B-P didn't have. I guess we'd better leave the LED flashlights at home...

KS

Brian:

Current uniform guidance tells us to wear either the MB sash or the OA sash, over the right shoulder. Not both together, and neither should be hung from the belt.

Check with your local lodge on registration after an inactive period. I'm sure it's as simple as madkins007 suggests...

KS

We've got right at 70% going, if you include staffers. Our two big factors for those Scouts not going are year-round school schedules and off-island vacation travel. I've got a couple in summer school, and a couple working, too. Money's not a factor; our camp's only $145 per, and the committee apportions most of our fund-raiser proceeds to the lads' Scout accounts -- most of our Scouts pay most or all of their camp fee from their accounts.

KS

SR540Beaver;

My comments in my last post were not directed at you; if you check the post times, we were both writing ours at the same time -- you clicked "submit" just a few seconds before I did. Rather, it was a general comment intended for those leaders who complain about summer camp programs, but who also do nothing except show up and expect to be catered to all week -- and that's knowing full well how much advance work it takes to get a council campsite ready for summer camp and to deliver a program while camp is underway.

I've found there's a direct relationship between the willingness of units and their leaders to pitch in and help, and how receptive council staffs are to those unit leaders' suggestions for improvement. And, if you're within a large coffee cup's drive from your council camp, like I am, there's really no excuse not to get involved. Bottom line: if you're on a first-name basis with the camp ranger and Council Camping Committee chair because you've cultivated a relationship with them throughout the year, your unit will have a much better time at summer camp. Using goodkidsmom's situation as an example, if the SM thinks the program is deficient, offer to help with it by putting older Scouts on camp staff, providing feedback to the program director, volunteering to be the District rep on the council camping committee, or offering up leaders to help while at camp. In my experience, the staffs welcome the help and constructive comments.

"One hand washes the other, and both hands wash the face."

Sorry if I offended you...

KS

If it's a scoutcraft skill through First Class, most of that instruction is done by the Green Bars & Instructors in our unit, and they sign off the requirement at the time it's taught/demonstrated, whether at a meeting or outing. If a Scout comes to me to sign off something someone else taught him, I need the Green Bar who did the instruction to verify it for me anyway, so our lads are conditioned to get the signoffs from whoever taught them. That's a bit of a transition for newly-crossed-over Scouts, who are accustomed to adults doing everything, but they catch on very quickly.

That said, they also know that they come to me to verify service hours, activities, Scout Spirit, Leadership, participation, and of course for the SM conference. I prefer doing that during outings (more time and fewer distractions), or before meetings as a less desirable alternative.

On outings, as much as possible, I try to look like I'm sitting around doing nothing, so that the Scouts will be more inclined to "bother" me. BTW, I don't treat the adults' campsite like a "snake pit" where boys enter at their peril. I like them coming over, so they can see what we're cooking (and scam the leftovers -- we always cook plenty extra), see how the campsite's laid out, get the football scores, and basically see "what right looks like".

That said, I've seen units at District and Council activities in which the SM was more like the Wizard of Oz; you know: "...I am the great and powerful -- pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" Ego trips...

KS

cmarrero:

The first line of your opening post answers your question...it's a "pack trip". That makes it a Scout outing, and the tour permit is required, with the vehicle information.

I see tour permits in the same category as money-earning applications -- they're a tool to help you plan your event. Councils aren't trying to keep units at home, or in the poor house by throwing up insurmountable barriers to travel or fund-raising. The forms aren't hard to fill out, TroopMaster or PackMaster help a lot if you have the vehicle information entered for your families, and in every council I've been in, the staff turns the tour permits quickly.

Your profile says you're a Tiger Den Leader. I'm assuming you're fairly new at this -- please correct me if I'm wrong. Your son may be in Scouting for the next 12 years, and if you're sharing it with him, it can be a wonderful experience. That said, here's a little advice from my experience: Watch out for adults, even some with a chest full of training award knots, who will blow off the paperwork with some rationalization like "...if we don't wear uniforms and don't call it a Scout event, we don't have to follow the Scout rules...". Chances are, the paperwork isn't the only place corners are being cut. It takes intestinal fortitude on the part of an informed leader to remind others of what's right, rather than what's expedient. I've had to do that myself on way more than one occasion. Quick example: we did a Troop campout on a military base that also operated an MWR go-cart track (safe and well maintained) within walking distance; I'd been there myself several times with both my kids, and those things are loads of fun. The Scouts wanted to include go-karting as part of the campout program -- I had to be the wet blanket. My popularity rating slipped, to be sure. But, I couldn't allow what the Guide To Safe Scouting considers a prohibited activity and at the same time hold Scouts accountable to all the points of the Scout Law.

Have a great time at the ball game; we did the same thing when we were in Cubs, and even got a special welcome over the PA during the game -- the lads felt like celebrities!

KS

Our council camp doesn't offer the citizenship badges, or communications, at summer camp. They offer the outdoor-oriented badges, and those that are difficult to do as part of the troop program (rifle, for example). By and large, they do a great job at it. It's a two-way street too. Our council staff asks on-island units to adopt a campsite at our council camp, and do maintenance and improvement work out there throughout the year -- we have, and we do. They also expect leaders to attend orientation sessions and training classes on new program features -- we have, and we're scheduled to attend COPE high elements instructor training later this month, so we can help run the course. Scouts from my unit are on staff each summer, too, counseling MBs among other things. There's more, but you get the picture.

I'd be very reluctant to criticize the council's camping program unless I was doing everything I could as a leader, an Arrowman, and a Wood Badger, to help make it better...

KS

Owl;

BSA's very fussy about what the unit flags look like, since they're such a visible symbol of the movement. Have you considered custom-made streamers for your flag versus sewing stars on it?

KS

OGE:

You're a good man with the patience of Job; you stuck it out a lot longer than I could have. When I stumble into one of those threads you referenced, I get right back out as fast as I can -- you didn't have that option, and I salute you for your efforts!

KS

They can be a positive thing. When I was a SM in Korea, one of the amusement parks there had a small zoo with all native animals, and interactive nature area that provided a fabulous way for our boys to learn native plants and animals (the Handbook and other BSA references are North America-centric, so we had to get creative). We always did the zoo/nature area first, then the rides, games, and whatnot.

There are many potential advancement & MB tie-ins (Business monthly Troop Program Feature; Engineering, Architecture, Salesmanship MBs, and I'm just shooting from the hip -- there's certainly more) with an outing of this nature. Anything can be a teaching moment if you have your thinking cap on.

KS

Root Beer floats? That's it, I'm moving!

KS

I'd use the Outdoor Essentials and Personal Overnight Gear (P224 in the Handbook) as a place to start. Take the optional items too, perhaps minus the musical instrument. Anything else depends on preference, what's at the Tradin' Post, and camp/unit policy.

We hold a parents' meeting, and while I'm with them, the SPL is with the Scouts, doing the same thing. If you PM me, I'll send you a copy of the powerpoint slides we use.

Regarding clothing, hygiene, and how to pack, I require every Scout to take a shower, every night, right before lights out -- and we check 'em when they get back -- no exceptions. They'd better have wet hair and be smelling like soap upon return. They do it by patrol. It was almost comical last year, our first night in camp. Up until the hygiene call went out, they thought I was kidding, because under previous leadership, there were some lads who didn't touch water except for at the pool for the entire week. Our showers are semi-private, they can shower in their swim trunks if they want to, but shower they will. If we're spending a week together, nobody's smelling like a barnyard animal -- the 11th point of the Law is a beautiful thing.

I recommend big ziploc bags, with underwear, socks, and a t-shirt for each day. After the shower, the clean ones come out, the dirties go in, the bag gets sealed up...Bob's your uncle.

I also recommend at least one extra pair of pants -- if one gets wet/dirty, we can rinse and dry for tomorrow.

KS

I think every Scout who makes it to Star thinks about earning Eagle, since it's not as distant a goal as it was when he was working on his joining requirements. Part of that is thinking about possible projects, especially when they're putting in hours on their buddies' Eagle projects. I don't see anything wrong with it. On the contrary, show me two Scouts, one who's thinking about it as a Star, and one who isn't, I'll bet on attending an Eagle COH for the first one someday...

KS

While I agree that most boys will internalize the values by osmosis, either sooner or later, some never will. I prefer to spend my time and energy on the former, rather than the latter. I get them for an hour and a half a week -- as good as we are, it's tough to overcome the other 166 hours. Besides, by the time we get them, their personalities and demeanors are largely formed. I'm not Father Flanagan, and this ain't Boys' Town.

We've done parents' conferences for infractions a lot less serious than than what uz2bnowl described in his opening post...

KS

I recommend the Silva starter, clear base plate compass sold in the Scout shop, for most Scouting uses. Sturdy, easy to pack, easy to teach, easy to use.

I also recommend teaching new Scouts to figure the declination once, mark their maps accordingly, then they don't have to recalculate every time they take a bearing.

Now, a little joke and a humorous story.

Joke: Why did the Army locate the Infantry School at Ft. Benning, Georgia? Because the declination angle is zero degrees in Columbus, Georgia...

Humorous story. Many years ago, KS is at the Air Force's school for new air base defense lieutenants in the low hills above San Antonio. We're on one of countless land navigation problems, in which the instructors load us into the back of a truck after dark, completely close us in, drive to the far end of the training area (about 45 min away), then start kicking us out two at a time, with instructions to get back to a particular 8-digit grid.

We're teamed up alphabetically, and my land nav partner is a gal from Chicago who's never been more than 100 feet from an electrical outlet. She's afraid of the dark, doesn't like critters, and doesn't have very good night vision either. We're supposed to be semi-tactical, so we duck under a poncho, turn on the red light, and get out the map. Several out of the poncho, into the poncho iterations to fix our position and orient the map. We plot the destination grid, and start figuring out our route. All options unpleasant -- either very hilly or very swampy. But, we notice that there's a paved road running mostly parallel to our overland route, then a 200-meter mostly flat romp to the coffee. We look at each other, and decide to go IFR (I Follow Roads). Out onto the blessed asphalt, lock elbows, and "Weeeeeee'rrrrrrreeee off to see the wizard..."! Well, of course we knew that we're not the only trainees out there. Little did we know that on that road, 44 students from the basic course are laying in ambush on that very road. Their instructor had designated victims scheduled, but when he saw us coming down the road like a couple of goombahs, he figured we'd be better (and more fun) targets. They were very well camouflaged, and practicing very good noise and light discipline, too. In other words, we had no idea they were there. Until, that is, the machine gun began firing -- that was the signal for everyone else to open up. Unarmed ourselves, all we could do is shoot an azimuth back at them, then scurry on with our ears ringing. Aside from the obvious lesson (stay off ambush routes whenever you can), we learned that a well-laid ambush is a truly awesome thing.

Sorry to digress...

KS

Although our adults can certainly sign off advancements (and I presume we're talking mainly through First Class here), that's something I expect my Green Bars to do. For one thing, a Scout will probably wait less time for his PL than he will for me. Also, knowing that he may be expected to teach and sign off requirements keeps the Green Bars in their handbooks and their skills sharper. The only limitations are that only the SM or his designated ASM signs off Scout Spirit, and that's done at the SM conference. And, that a Green Bar can sign off advancement only for those Scouts lower in rank than him. For our NSP, the Troop Guide is a busy guy, as it should be.

KS

ScoutNut;

All the councils we've been with have had a substantial military population; more transfers than those you've been associated with, probably.

I understand the proceeds go to the Troop. My point is that so far at least (again, three councils and 7 Troops), there has been no linkage between program planning and money earning.

Individual councils may not care whether Troops carry forward or not, but as you know, GSUSA uses a less centralized oversight model; service units and the Troop leaders have much more autonomy than BSA units within a District and Council. Moreover, there's no committee with a chair, CO, or some comparable entity to rule on carry forwards (or anything else for that matter). For some time, I thought a service unit was comparable to a committee, but I've been set straight more than once.

Of course, the Troops should set their cookie sale goals based on their program goals -- I didn't mean to imply that they shoud be downward directed like a Soviet collective farm. My point was that the program goal should precede the cookie sale goal.

I know there are program tie-ins with the cookie sale, just as there are with BSA and the popcorn campaign each year. As my daughter moves from Juniors to Cadets next fall, I'm only hoping that her Cadet Troop resembles the model you describe, rather than having a plan spoon-fed to them, sell cookies like galley slaves, then blow the money come summertime.

KS

I understand that from an accounting standpoint, it's easy enough to do. This is a human factor problem, in my experience. To carry the funds forward means that somebody next year, who didn't earn the money in the Troop this year, will benefit from someone else's fund raising efforts when they move up a level in the program. I've tried to explain till blue-faced, that if all Troops in a service unit carried forward, it would be a wash. I might as well be speaking Sanskrit, because while it makes sense, nobody wants to be the first to have to do it.

Speaking of building balances, if GS service units set Troop cookie sale goals based on program delivery cost estimates, there would be two near-immediate results. One, there shouldn't be huge surpluses at the end of a GS "year" that leaders squander on trinkets just to get rid of it -- unless it's understood that balances carry forward for program delivery in the fall. Two, the cookie sale won't be the dominant, over-arching activity for the year. Again, just a sample of three, but in all the GS councils we've been in, the drive was "sell all we can, and we'll figure out what to spend it on later".

KS

I've got one of each in the house, and the one difference that I just don't understand is how GS Troops handle their money. In three different GS Councils, my daughter's Troops have had to zero out their balance at the end of each May. They spend the money raised mostly by cookie sales from people who thought it was going for program support, for trinkets and presents for the girls, just to get rid of the $$. Then, in the fall, they're broke again until the cookie money comes in months later. Nobody has ever been able to tell me why they don't just carry it forward and use it for what it was intended for.

I shudder to think how we'd manage in BSA if we had to do the same thing...

KS

Q1: A father/son 1-on-1 can look inappropriate to an observer who doesn't know the family...but it's sometimes inevitable. For example, after I drop everyone else off, guess who's left alone with me? My son...can't help it, unless I call him a taxi from the last drop-off.

Q2#3: I think there should always be adult and youth facilities wherever possible. Barring that, there should be a flip-over sign (youth/adult) at the entrance. When that's just not possible, like at non-council property, I always go to a stall for privacy reasons -- if the youth isn't going to protect his privacy, I'll make sure to protect my privacy.

Q4: We insist on buddy system if they're leaving the camp site, even to the latrine...heck, especially to the latrine. I don't expect a buddy to stand next to a Scout like a urinalysis observer, but if he's nearby or even right outside the door telling him to hurry up, I see that as reinforcing YP because another person in the latrine will know that Scout isn't alone. Besides, it's so much easier to be consistent than situational (i.e., buddy system unless it's less than 50 yards, or to the bathroom, or ten minutes or less, etc.).

KS