ASM1

Well, a solution to my old problem has been found. Now I have a new problem that is a welcome problem, but still a problem.

Because this all happened since summer camp there has been little time to plan. We are starting a new troop. We have the CO, and a SM, CC Treasurer, and 5 older scouts for our Venture crew. 3 boys, 2 girls. Problem. How do we jump start a new troop in recruitment of younger scouts in the Fall? I got a Den Chief into a Pack but bridging is next spring. In order for the Troop to be legit I need about 4-5 scouts. The Venture Crew is good to go with a good start. But the Troop is in severe need of young blood. Any ideas? I need them.

ASM1

What (I) did was to raise concerns over severe leadership malfunctions by our new SM at summer camp. (who I also recommended for the job) We all make mistakes and mine was to support this intellectually deprived primate as a "Leader of Boys".

My concerns were made in a private email to our CC. She responded that we would all have to meet privately and discuss these issues. I thought that would be a good idea.

The next day this deprived primate SM called my son on the phone and verbally assaulted him. Telling him that every boy in the troop hates him and wants him to leave the troop. All of which is a lie because my son grew up with most of these boys in little league and school, and they are still at my house playing PS2 evryday. Does not look like hate to me!!

The email I sent to our CC was read by her husband, an ASM of the troop, as I am/was. This ASM is also our Roundtable Commissioner and has the mistaken impression that HIS word will be law in this troop. The self appointed savour of the troop, (the CC's husband) then announced that my family was removed from the troop because he is in the "Ole Boy Network" with our new SM. (they are BUDS)

So you see, what (I) did was nothing wrong. It was proper and I followed the proper chain of command by going to our CC. The two morons who designated themselves "Lord & Masters" of BSA policy as they see it decided that we were too smart to be controlled and must be thrown from the flock as to not spread intellegence throughout the remaining sheap.

I annouced earlier in this thread that I had the goods on this SM and I threw it all away to move to another troop. That has not worked. This ASM moron is now planning a district activities meeting(in which I am a member) to decide to allow our family to remain in the scouting program on a council level. (in which I am also a member)The moron has annouced that this meeting will be held at his house. (in which I am not allowed to attend) And this moron ASM and SM, also think that this holds water. This holds nothing!

They have made unsuccessful attempts to interfere with our moving to another troop. (it has not worked, we have been invited by 7 troops to visit and join to date) This has moved to a personal level and now I have no choice but to take action. I have told them a couple years ago that I use this site and forums and I know they also monitor it, I have been involved in scouting for more than 30 years and I insist that all mediation be public and/or documented. I have invited them to respond here but they refuse. They are afraid of the public opinion.

There it is. You asked, and I responded in the only way I can right now with this hatred being shown by these primates. If you are asking if I or my son, or my wife are Gay? No Way! Are we Athiest? No Way!! Devoted Methodist.

My suggestions are to not take my word for anything. But ask them. Go to http://www.bsatroop672.org and go into the forums and ask them. They will not reply. My company donated that site and we host it. I know they are on that site every night thinking I am going to post there and say something they can "use". They are on the run, they have been exposed for what they are and they just happened to pick the wrong person to try to intimidate! ;-)

ASM1

Greetings,

I mentioned this before in another thread. There is a chat forum on the troop site, http://www.bsatroop672.org. You can go there and chat anytime you like. Just go there and go to Forums, you will the chat option on the right. Enjoy!!

ASM1

Chat!?!? Ok, well here you go then. My company donated this site to the troop in question that I had problems with. Now that I was (thrown out) and this troop has refused ownership of this site, I still own it. If you would like a forum you chat in, go to http://www.bsatroop672.org and go to forums. Open Scouting Forum is now open and you can chat. If you like it, share it.

ASM1

This "Bob White" commercial brought to you by the friendly people at Forums/Scouter.com. Please remember to support your local Friends of Scouting Program.

That sounds right for this thread.

Don't sell your own opinions short, and don't place all your eggs in one basket. Think for yourself.

ASM1

Women make GREAT leaders in Scouting. Nothing more need be said.

ASM1

The Resolution!

I think I stated in this thread that the COR is a close friend of mine, and that I am a member of the CO. I had a meeting with him yesterday at 1:00pm. At 10:30 am prior to that meeting I got a FedX package from the Camp Director of the summer camp we attended. In this package was a signed statement by the director concerning this SM's involvement in tampering with my son's activities during summer camp. I knew this SM had no clue about my years in Scouting and the resources I could draw upon to prove my point. I thought "I got him now!"

During the meeting with our COR, he said, "you tell me what you want, and it is done" I had the SM where I wanted him. I thought about it, and then tore up the signed letter before I let the COR read it and said, "I wish this troop well, we will be moving to another troop". When it came down to the facts, I could not destroy the experiences of all the boys in that troop that I have come to love. That troop will survive and that SM will destroy himself.

The situation is resolved, and I think all parties are now happy. I am, my son is, and my wife is.

Scouting survives.

ASM1

Greetings,

Good for you for re-starting the troop. First talk to your CO about local Cub Packs in the area and start attending some Packs about recruitment. Also (and idea given to me, not my own, but it sure is a good idea) run a couple ads in your local newspaper announcing your troop and recruit sign ups. get real involved in the local schools and ask if you can post recruitment posters. (you can get them from your council) Good luck, best wishes and "Get That Troop Up & Running"

ASM1

Dan,

Yes it is strange about the bylaws. We were effectively removed from the troop last Friday. The notice stated that our COR recommended the removal. However, I got email from the COR on Saturday stating that he had been out of town and knew nothing of this. He is investigating the issue. But the damage is done, I doubt it can be repaired. Our son said he wants nothing to do with scouting anymore. I am trying to get him turned around on that.

What a waste. People like these put themself up as council leaders who are for the good of the organization, yet they destroy lives to gain thier personal goals. It is the same thing in little league, but thats another topic for another forum.

ASM1

If you find a solution to this, please let me know. We have the same situation in our troop. We have a 12 year old boy who is not afraid to fail, he is just scared to death of the water. He will not go in the water. His parents seem to think that if swimming is a requirement for boy scout advancement, then boy scouts should teach him to swim. It's a shame really, because this boy is an awesome young man with tons of energy and talent.

ASM1

What I did was make a complaint that the new SM was nowhere to be found at summer camp and was not participating in the troop functions while at summer camp. That was it. Nothing else was done by me or any member of my family to this troop. I thought it was a valid concern and brought it to our CC. This was the reaction.

Sounds like fair BSA policy doesn't it.

The AXE has fallen.

I am going to do something I rarely do, I am going to copy and email I just received from one of the ASM's of this troop. This ASM's wife is also the CC. I am still trying to get in touch with the COR. Copy of email follows.

It is time that somebody stated the facts clearly:

It is my understanding that you are no longer an ASM in Troop &^*. Your attendance at the NorthGrum flag ceremony, while commendable, was as the parent of an individual Boy Scout.

Please do not bother to attend the leader meeting tomorrow. You are no longer an adult leader and not welcome in my home. I will turn you away at the door. My patience and diplomacy have limits, and those were surpassed some time ago.

And please don't waste both our time with a lengthy email response. As you have noted recently, I will not engage in pointless electronic diatribe. I will simply not respond.

From one individual to another, I suggest you consider looking for a new troop home.

ASM (name removed to protect)

(This message has been edited by ASM1)

Dan, Please see what you can find out. I looked on scoutstuff.org and did a search on the publication no. I got nothing. Let me know if you find it. I am very interested to see what my fate holds. But I think Bob White is right when he said only the COR has that power.

ASM1

Dan, If you COR is not helpfull to your position, your sunk. I got an idea, let's you and I start our own troop! ;-)

ASM1

I have spoke to him since we returned from summer camp. He called me on the phone and told us to leave the troop.

I do not know what his problem is with me. I think it may be that he is career military, and I am career civilian. I think out of the box and he cannot predict or anticipate my thoughts or intentions. I think he does not like me because I am a mystery to him.

He is now assembling his ASM's (excluding me of course, which is fine with me) and assigning them specific duties that they cannot stray from. ASM's now have to ask his permission to attend campouts and activities. I don't think I can be restrained like that. I am a free spirit and I move around to Cub Scout packs and other troops in our district activities. I have no intention to ask his permission to go anywhere or to do any activities I choose to attend. Now that I am seeing this new SM unfold, I am thinking he will self destruct very soon and the problem will be over.

ASM1

Bob White;

Your response, "You first need to realize that unless you represent an organization capable of chartering a troop you cannot start a unit." This is just not true. How could it be true? Our troop is CO'ed by the American Legion, that troop was started without any member of the legion being a member of the troop. In fact, at its inception, there were no legion members involved with the troop. Remember, most of these members have grandchildren older than our oldest adult leader. So, that does not hold water.

It is my understanding that an organization may wish to start a troop, but lack the Scout leadership to make it possible. I have such an orgnization in mind. But I lack the knowledge to know how to approach them with the correct documentation. That is what I am seeking, information to make it happen.

ASM1

Dan,

Since the CO of any troop owns that troop, it is their duty to oversee membership of that troop. From SM, ASM, CC, CM, and Scout.

The entire troop can make recommendations, but only the COR can have the final say. He/She has the power to over rule any desicion.

Now, an update. Last night was our troop meeting, it went very well, with a few exceptions. The CC came to me and said there will be no removal of any member of the troop. But he also said there is a problem that the new SM refuses to have me on his staff as ASM, and he insist that my wife not be a member of the comiittee. (sounds like the same results without removal)

Now, I have received a reply from our COR. He said that I am the only member of the CO that is involved with the troop (besides himself) and he will not entertain any discussion of our removal from the troop. He said he need his eyes within the troop.

The SM was not pleasant in any shape or form. We had a First Aid class last night, and my son usually instructs that class. The SM refused to allow my son to instruct the class. I am surprised he allowed my son to attend the class.

I was busy with getting our Wood Badge registrations in order so I did not pay much attention to the meeting. I was working with most of the committee with this project and they seemed very happy that we were there as usual.

I have received great assistance from this forum and all who have donated unselfishly thier advice. I thank you all. You have given me new avenues to explore.

What I see for our choices at this point are: Now that I know I have full support from the COR, and questionable support from the CC, I think I have two choices. 1) is to just dive into this troop and work with the COR to rid it of this "affraid to act" mentality, and eliminate the SM. Or, 2) As suggested here, start a new troop. After the years we have put in to our district and council I think we could do it.

What I need know is the info I would need to accomplish this. Where do I start?

ASM1

Thanks Bob White, you are correct.

I just emailed our COR concerning the problem, I am awaiting a reply. This is a sticky situation for him as well because I am also a member of the CO.

I have talked to my son and he wishes to remain in scouting, I would hate to leave this troop in which we have spent 4 years in, but my son must come first. If he chooses to switch troops, we will switch. If he wishes to remain in this troop, well, we will have to see how this situation comes out first.

Tonights scout meeting should be interesting to say the least.

ASM1

Fortunately, the troop COR ia also a firend of mine, and has not yet been informed of the upcoming axe to the neck... I do think he will severely question this action. But in the end, how does that sit for our son and his future with this SM? And this troop?

Well, I appreciate your responses. We are lost for answers, after five years in this troop I have never had in the past, a reason to be suspicious of leadership/committee activities. We are floored to say the least. Our boy wants to quit scouts now, can you imagine? A scout with brothers involved in scouting, one of them an Eagle ASM in the troop fighting cancer? Where did this come from? Wife says it was planned months ago and we were the willing victims. Is she right? Who Knows... But blown away we are. And what about the primary reason we are involved? My son now wants to quit Scouting... I have a problem with this one.

Greetings everyone, I have posted here before but never thought I would be the one in trouble seeking advice. I guess we learn everyday.

Anyway, recently we had to replace our scoutmaster because our old scoutmaster had family obligations to tend to. There were five candidates for the position. The troop parents were very devided over the choice, but they were not involved in the process of choosing. The troop committee, and our COR were the deciding factor. A few of the ASM's were consulted on their recommendations, I was one of them. For the sake of this forum, I strongly recommended candidate #1. Our committee chair also wanted candidate #1, but not for the same reasons. I wanted candidate #1 because I thought him to be of outstanding character. Our CC wanted him because he was freshly retired military, Special Forces.

That holds little water with me, character must come first. Anyway, like I said the troop was fiercly divided over the choices. The committee elected candidate #1 and the COR approved. Done deal.

Before I go further, I meant to mention above that my wife is on the troop committe, and we both are on the district activities committee for our council. So I think our recommendations were counted.

That was two weeks ago. We went to summer camp last week and what a roller coaster ride we were in for. Candidate #1, knowing full well that the troop was very divided in the choices for SM, assumed on his own that me and my wife were against him and he went clear out of his way to completely crush our sons activities for the week. Our son came home with nothing. As a result, I had words with the SM after we came home to alert him of the true situation.

Today the new SM calls me and insists that I take my wife, my son, and leave the troop. This SM has been in scouting all of 3 years, most of which he missed because of active duty. My wife and I have been in scouting for more than 30 years with our four sons. Tonight, our CC tells me that she has no choice but to support the new SM's decision and remove us from the troop.

Roundtable tonight, most were there, none would talk to us. Now I have to ask advice, do any of you see something here that I am missing? Were we used to gain this persons position only to be discarded after the successful appointment? And what the heck to we do now?

Our last son is 15, Life scout and starting to work on his Eagle project. Our oldest son is Eagle and also an ASM of this troop, but has been inactive for the last year due to cancer. There has to be something here that I am missing.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. WOW, what a slammer!

ASM1

WHOA!!!!!! You really missed the point! Leave Scouting? If that thought even entered into your mind, then you really never got it the first time. Wow! I can't beleive that, how did this guy make SM? Quit Scouting? I don't get it... So you lose SM... What is important? Your position in the troop? Or your son's activity in the troop? I had to ask, because the original message was foggy on who was offended.

ASM1

Our troop does not allow electronics of any kind except for long road trips. When we arrive, the elctronics are handed over to either parents or the SM to be returned for the drive home. We do have one outing a year, a weekend outing that we call our Cadilac campout where they are allowed. On this trip we try to find a state park with good fishing and hiking and let the boys relax. They can work on advancements if they like, but the trip is just for pleasure and relaxation.

I am very confused though that some troops do not allow adults to bring cell phones or pagers. What a foolish rule. Most parents need to have contact with their work or family in case of emergencies. I own my own business and if that ruled applied to adults in our troop, I would have to leave the troop. After all, my business supports my family. If I cannot have contact with it, then there is no point. Remember, family first.

ASM1

I have to agree with eisely, your right, the Council is the place for this. District exposure is also a plan to envoke to get to that top man in Council. Everyone will be hot about it and force the issue.

And that lodge shake up? Oh My! You bet your Eagle rank it needs to be shaken up, until the bad apples fall out.

ASM1

I have to agree with eisely, your right, the Council is the place for this. District exposure is also a plan to envoke to get to that top man in Council. Everyone will be hot about it and force the issue.

And that lodge shake up? Oh My! You bet your Eagle rank it needs to be shaken up, until the bad apples fall out.

ASM1