ASM1

Well well, so now it starts! To all the users of this forum please read. I just got this in a private message from a user and you should all read it. It seems my comments have started a witch hunt.

ASM1,

Greetings. I follow the threads on Scouter.com with interest and I have been following all of your post with great interest. However, I just got an email from a council member in my home council that was a forward from the Scoutmaster of my old troop that makes the accusation that your posts are mine and about his troop. That angered me greatly and made me think that perhaps you are right. It seems paranoia is running rampant now a days. Since my company also charters our troop I am instructing our company attorney to seek liable actions against this SM. The damage he is doing is pretty much irrelevant, but when my views and ideas can be used against me, it is time to make a difference and put a stop to it... I knew there was a reason I never post here.

Name withheld for obvious reasons...

And so we walk together in scouting. But does this sound like scouting to you? Maybe we should re-think what scouting is all about.

ASM1

(This message has been edited by ASM1)

http://www.commondreams.org/views/120700-106.htm

http://www.geocities.com/redflagsinflorida/cybercrow.htm

le Voyageur, You have earned an "A" on your homework. Isn't information wonderful? It is truly a shame so many people blindly bebeive and follow carots dangled in their faces as "truth". The information is there for everyone to see, and it is the truth. Not propaganda. All one needs to do is ask themselves if everything they are told is the truth? It does not take much time or effort to verify what is being said one way or the other.

We watch Fox news and see statements like, "if one does not support this war with Iraq, they are guilty of treason." Really? Well, I am still waiting for someone to explain the reasoning behind that statement. I am thinking that if the war last 4 years, my 14 year old may be going. For what? For oil? Pa-leeze! Why didn't anyone ask why the new President of Afghanistan used to sit on the board of directors for Unical? Everone remembers Unical right? They are the company that won the contract from Haliburton (who? Dick Cheney) to lay the pipeline from Iraq to India to sell oil to Who? North Korea and China. DOH! Hmmm, we got the pipeline back on track in Afghanistan, but Iraq wants a peice of the oil profit action. Why not? It's their oil. But there will be more profits for an american oil company if we just cut Iraq out of the equation and steal it. (I wonder who that might be that would come up with such a dasterdly plan?)

I'm getting off my soap box now. But I just want to challenge those who follow blindly to just ask questions. If asking questions to find out for your self means your guilty of treason, then ask your self why and try to explain that rational to yourself. You will come up empty for an explaination. And maybe, just maybe one may see a little more light at the end of the tunnel.

Yours in Service.

ASM1

I have a full database driven web site I did for our old troop that I will give you free if you would like it. All you will have to do is change is the graphics and there not many of them. It has an admin section so you can make live updates to the information on the site. It also has a link to a free forums much like this one for your patrol announcements. Let me know how to get it to you and I will send it.

ASM1

This is no hook. It is a tool for recruitment for sure. But a Venture Crew has the options to select themes to base their crew opon. Statewide tournaments only run two months of the year that I know of. All the boys, and girls know if they join that this crew will be attending the White Stag high adventure training in Bloomington Indiana every year with the new members. They will indeed follow the rigors of the scouting program and will be involved in high adventure activities. But their theme will be to form teams to compete when not enduring the activities. We will always make the time for them to form their teams and practice their chosen theme while on these activities. I talked to our DE today and he was thrilled about the prospect and said we may end up with the largest crew in the district. I am optimistic...

ASM1

Why don't you just get on the troop committee so you can say NO! next time this happens? You have avoice ya know...

ASM1

Well, we have opened a true can of worms here. First off I never made the implication about any religious shift. I have not seen any either in 35 years of scouting. It has remained steady, which is very cool with me. But in the last troop that we,(our entire family) was thrown out of after 6 years of service we were asked when we joined if we were Democrat or Replican. I refused to answer stating that politics is my personal preferrence and private. We were actually labled communist. Wrong! we are Democrats. But their wild visions lead them to ASSUME and we all know what happens when we assume. Next, a couple years before we were asked to leave that troop we started noticing that when a new family came into the troop they were isolated until their politcal factions were noted. If Republicans they were welcomed and encouraged to get traing free of charge and to be involved in the troop activities. If they were found out to be Democrats they were openly harrassed. The big method was when their child would attend a campout without their parents. The child would be permanently punished and denied activities. I have wittnessed this personally because I attended every campout. On one occassion I had to litteraly stop the scoutmaster from calling the parents of a scouts for a ficticious charge of missconduct. That family was thorwn out of the troop the following week by the committee chair in a private meeting. I was furious because I know this family very well. They are Democrats. When we chose a new scoutmaster, I as an ASM and my wife who was on the committee voted to approve the troop selected candidate because he was the best qaulified to take the position. His first order of business was to throw our family out of the troop. His reasons were that we were guilty of treason against the united states for being a liberal based family and not of military background. Nothing could be further from the truth. My family military history can match any families in this country with decendants dating back to the revolutionary war. That counted for nothing. At roundtable we pray TO, not for Goerge Bush. Funny, we didn't pray TO Bill Clinton, or for him to make the right decisions. But we pray TO "W". I bow my head and silently pray for his defeat in 2004. My right.

Hitler youth? How about boot camp drills every morning on campouts praising "W"? If you do not attend, you are forbidden for the days activities. My son would never attend. He was never denied activites until the end because our company donates a lot of money to the council. But in the end they trashed his summer camp and told us to leave the troop. They even tore up my sons Eagle project in front of the troop and we were removed in a troop ceremony.

Our council freaked out over this and the district director and executive contacted me to charter a troop and helped us get my son back into the program. But the slant and shift is there and it is dangerously corruptive. That scoutmaster was removed. but they removed the wrong person. There is one ASM who runs that troop with an iron hand.

ChoicePoint IS a datamining right wing organization. We threw them out of our offices. They told us that we can purify our workforce to accomidate our right wing agenda. And excuse me very much, the FBI has a full blown background check system to handle any workload. How do I know this. My son works there.

ASM1

sctmom, Well, congrats on your involvement in the scouting program. I think if you would like to see your son get back into scouting you may wish to try to get involved with one of those other two troops you mentioned. Get on the committee of one of them, or better yet, become an Assistant Scoutmaster and start attending the training and go on the campouts. You show your son that your going on the campouts, he will be back into scouting so fast all you will see is a blur!

About your situation with the pulic school system. Your story sounds like ours with my youngest son. They absolutely refused to pass him into the 8th grade because they said he needed special ed and co-taught classes. Remembering how I fared in the public school system and how my father handled it. I went into the school and said quite frankly, you will pass my son and he will no longer be in special ed or any co-taught classes. They laughed at me and said no way. I wrote a letter to the school board and copyied the local newpaper stating that the public school system exist by our tax dollars and by that token, we, the parent are the directors of the programs, not the local school principals or teachers. Our son is now in high school and maintaining a B average with no special ed or co-taught classes. Stand your ground and remember, those school people work for you. Not the other way around.

You take the lead and get into one of those troops, your son will fly back to the program, you will see.

ASM1

I am all for background checks also. They must be a part of scouting in today's world and should not be overlooked. My concerns were that they be performed by law enforcement agancies instead of organizations. After all, that is what the FBI does best. Why go anywhere else?

ASM1

Two questions. 1) Are you still involved in scouting? 2)Do you wish him to return to the program if it was his idea to do so?

ASM1

LOL! Ok, here is the rest of the question. You all had great responses but now I really need to hear it. As some of you know my company chartered a troop and venture crew late last year. Well, things have been moving slow in recruitment. In fact the only members of the crew are dual memberships from the troop and that only has 6 members in it. My son came to me with an idea of making the crew themed around Migic the Gathering and go to New York to compete in the national tournament held twice a year. I said hmmmmm, I'll have to think about that. My son already has won the Maryland State championship tournament three times and plays with about 40 kids both girls and boys. I told him I would think about it. Since then we have had 15 kids come to me and expressed an interest in joining our crew if we do this. Sounds like recruitment problem is solved. I just wanted to get the opinions of you all here. Now keep in mind that the summer camp we attend holds a camp wide tournament every year. My son won that also. ;-)

ASM1

le Voyageur, please do not consider leaving the program. It still is the very best program offered to our youth. It is up to people like you and I to keep it honest. We can do that. Scouting has taught me wonders of education for youth. I am just very upset with the present doctrine. But doctrines change, and as long as we all keep our youth in sight as the priority, I think we will previal. Keep our perspective, and keep our reality. We can make it work. I refuse to give up. As long as I have influense with my sons, I will always try to convince them that scouting has absolutely nothing to do with politics, and they are Americans for thinking with diversity, not traitors.

ASM1

le Voyageur, I am fearing the real reason is quite clear. I pray every night I am wrong. After 35 years in scouting with two sons in leadership positions and my youngest approaching his Eagle, I am seeing a very different BSA than I grew up with. My two oldest sons, both military and one with combat experience have told me that BSA is not what it used to be. Both have expressed disires of leaving the program. I beg them not to. My grandson is of age to join Tiger Cubs and I am looking forward to starting the program all over again with him. But his father is asking questions. I cannot blame him. I see it in my council at every Roundtable. It has moved away from scouting teaching, to political preaching. I come home from every meeting excited about the new training activities, and sick to my stomach from all the right wing propaganda. Sometimes it sounds like the doctrine of the Hitler youth program. They are literally teaching my child that if he is not a Repulican, he is guilty of treason. That offends me. We have been thrown out of a troop because of being a Democrat. The movement even tried to have us removed from scouting. But owning this corporation I was able to charter our own troop and teach real scouting. Our members are both Repulicans and Democrats. Even have a couple Independants. It is not about us. It is about our children. Do we want to raise them hating people who think differently?

ASM1

I too am in favor of background checks to verify WHO our children are being led by. BUT! The organizations mentioned, ChoicePoint, and VolunteerSelect are not law inforcement agencies who should be performing these background checks, but rather corporate right wing selection agencies who screen political candidates for organizations who wish political purity. How do I know this? I am CEO of a corporation who has interviewed both of these organizations for our background checks on employees, and we showed them the door quickly. I fear that there is a movement within BSA to limit Boy Scouts to Repulican candidates. I know this sounds way off base, and I really hope it is. But in all honesty, BSA will never serve any of our youth unless it practices the "Diversity" it preaches. We are all Americans. Let's raise our children that way too.

ASM1

I have a couple questions for all of you. I usually spark some responses with my questions even though I rarely ask them. But here goes. Are there any troops or packs that have children who play Magic the Gathering? Do they play on outings? And what are your feelings on this? I am looking for opinions and I promise I will explain why I am asking this once I get some responses to feel out your opinions. I misspelled "Magic" in the subject, sorry.

ASM1(This message has been edited by ASM1)(This message has been edited by ASM1)

Simple fix! Make sure it is totally dry, use course sandpaper and sand it ALL off. The spray with Auto sandable primer. When dry sand smooth with 400 grit wet sand paper using water to sand. Dry totally. Spray with your choice of colors, let dry, sand with 600 steel wool, wipe clean, and spray with clear coat. let dry and your done. Make sure you do not mix laquer with enamal though. stay with one or the other.

ASM1

shemgren said it best! I have found in BSA that there are reasons for everything that have been thought out in every posible concern to the success of the program. Summer camp is priority for a new scout, and early bridging to participate in fundraising is the key to success. As a Scoutmaster of a brand new troop, only 3 months old, we do not yet have Den Chiefs out in packs to receive bridgers. You lucky guys, I can't wait until nest year!!! I wish you great success, and tell this parent to also make the bridge and get involved in Boy Scouts. Time marches on and our children grow up. Nothing we can do about that except to enjoy their growth and participate in their lives.

ASM1

Merry Christmas to everyone here.

I have been involved in scouting for 35 years. IF on any forms I have to fill out in the future request a background check, I will take my entire family out of scouting. I have nothing to hide and pass background checks for many jobs my company works on, but I will not undergo a background check for volunteer work. Plain and simple. Seems BSA is catching the right wing trend. Not gonna happen here.

ASM1

I tend to agree with OldGreyEagle. Boy leadership, they made the situation they need to figure it out on their own with adult guidance.

Yet I am confused by Compass's response. I know my son has been urged countless times to run for SPL and he flatly refuses. It baffles me at election time. Every member of the troop wants my son to run and he refuses. When I ask him why he just says there is too much paperwork to do and it will cut down on his Den Chief time. I guess we get leadership in other ways than running for SPL.

ASM1

I want to tell you a story, a story that I know is very true because it is my story and my personal experience with Mormans and scouting. Sorry, but this will be a little long so the total thought can be expressed. As with about 90% of the scout leaders in the USA no matter what religion, I was a scout as a youth. That is where we get our leaders. When I was scout as a youth and became of age to catch the "fumes", (perfume & car fumes)I started dating a young girl who was Morman. That would be 7th and 8th grade. Well, anyway we met when I was in 7th grade and we dated until our Junior year in high school. I had a great job and was working on my Eagle. Her father was impressed with my scouting activities. We planned to marry. When we announced our intentions, her father immediately requested and was granted a transfer to another state to keep his daughter from marrying a Methodist. She was 17 at the time and still a minor so she had no choice but to go. Well, they moved to a state that has a large Morman population and her father arranged a marriage with a young mentor within the company he worked for. They had three children and were married for 13 years. Her three children were 2 boys and 1 girl. During those 13 years we kept in constant contact through letters. On occassions they would return home to vist family on Christmas. We would sieze the time to vist with each other. After 13 years of unhappy marriage on both parts, she finally announced that they were divorcing. I immediatly sent her an airline ticket to my new home state and we were married 3 weeks after she arrived. That was 24 years ago. Her children from her previous marriage came with her and were wlecomed with open arms. They are all still Morman. My wife and I had one child, a boy when she moved here and he was raised Methodist. My step sons were all active in Boy Scouts and involved in a Morman church troop. My son and I were involved in an extremely large, active, and aggressive troop which took many extreme trips. At first my step sons would never ever camp on a Sunday. They were forbidden. Yet they really wanted to attend the extreme trips we attended that were always too far away to return Saturday night. Well, here is the end of this story. My 2 step sons left their Morman troop and joined ours. Since then they are all above the age of 21 and are actively forming our Venture Crew, and guess what? They are still Morman, but they would never ever miss a full camping weekend. They camp Sunday's! Oh, did I mention? My Morman wife, she will be attending Wood Badge training next year which will be held on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday weekend, and a Saturday, Sunday, Monday weekend. And she would also never miss a full camping weekend. Scouts love to be in God's country, and what better chapel to hold a Scout's own service in?

We are also great friends with my wife's x-husband and his new wife. So, you see, nothing is ever carved in granite. What are my opinions on Mormans in Scouting? Well, lets put it this way. A Scout is reverent! A Scout does his duty to God. God created Earth, and no religion on Earth has the right to take the freedom of Earth away from a child. It will change.

ASM1

Well, here is a touchy subject. But I will put in my 2 cents worth. As you all know, Scouting leave an aweful lot to interpretation to the rules and by-laws. It only takes one cage rattler to expose an Atheist to BSA and they are history. ie.. The case in recent news about the Eagle Scout. I say this is bogus! If you alway keep an open mind, and remember that the United States of America was founded on the beleif of freedom of religion, one has to see this is a flawed policy. I am not an Atheist so don't anyone get any ideas. I am a devoted Methodist. But if you have ever studied Atheism you will see that do not beleive in a one devine being. It is not that they do not beleive in a devine entity. They do beleive in a devine entity. Much like the American Indians. One Earth, one Universe, one Soul. All is life. How can this beleif be wrong? I know that as a Scoutmaster, I will never expose an Atheist, I will insist he accepts and speaks God, but keep God in his own way, and to himself.

ASM1

EXCELLENT! Sounds like a good troop except for one thing. An ASM does not conduct uniform inspections, the SPL does.

ASM1

LOL!

Just for the record. Baltimore Area Council has at least 5 women paid professionals on staff. And they are NOT cashiers!!!!! They hold Exectutive positions and I am very proud of all of them. I would also bet that there are more of them employed than I know about.

Probably why our program is so successful and some others are not! (past posts noted that I was lambasted for) But facts are facts, and bullsh*t walks as propaganda.

ASM1

Bob White quote: "My question is how will a survey of opinions lead to an improvement of scouting?"

I'm speachless...

ASM1