ASM1

Bob, you only clouded the topic. My post in the other thread was as clear as it could be. There is no reason to continue it in this thread. What I said was the way it is.

ASM1

LauraT7,

Well, perhaps you should look at this situation with an open mind. Why don't you, yourself get involved with District and become more involved with BSA outside of your own unit. I have not read anything bad so far about this person holding these positions.

Maybe she is observing a broader scope of scouting than you are. Is it possible that you are only seeing scouting as your unit?

Scouting is fun for our youth and an adventure, but it also the same for the adults who choose to become involved in the movement. It is designed that way.

Good luck with your quest

ASM1

Follow up. There is no reason for the IH to hold any position in the unit, either committee or leader. The COR is already there to represent the organization. The IH represents the organization to Council. That is why the COR, and IH are two different positions. And the IH is most certainly a registered member of BSA. Has to be to sit on the Council Board.

ASM1

The term, "out of your mind" was meant in passing, a phrase. Do I think you are out of your mind? Of course not.

I was not thinking of the COR. I was wondering what you were referring to as COE (Chartered Organization Executive). A COR, (Chartered Organization Representative) is just that, a representative of the organization that "owns" the unit, be it a Cub Pack, Troop, or Crew.

The IH, (Institutional Head) is an officer of the "owning" organization and he/she must give permission (blessings) of the organization to "own" the unit/s. The organization must appoint an IH to represent them in the Council and sit on that Council Board. The organization must also appoint a COR to represent them to the unit, as a committee member of that unit.

As the President of a company that has Chartered a Troop and a Crew, I had to appoint an IH to sit on our Council Board, and also appoint a COR to represent my company in the Troop committee. As Scoutmaster, I could not hold any of those positions. (maybe I could, but I thought it would cause a conflict)

A lot of this was totally unknown to me when we decided to charter our own units. Our DE sat us down and presented us with the rules from National Council that we had to follow. I know that sometimes these rules are vague, but meant to be that way to others not affiliated with a chartering organization. The Charter Organization "owns" the unit/s therefore must be aware of the laws governing the control of a charitable organization. Especially if the charter organization is NOT a non-profit organization in itself. Tricky stuff.

ASM1

Bob,

The Charter Org. Executive is not a registered positon in the BSA...? Do you mean the Chartered Organization IH? (institutional head) If that is what you mean, you are out of your mind. Not only is the IH a registered member of BSA, that person, (IH) sits on the Council with full voting rights! Something no volunteer, of any position held can do. That's pretty registered don't you think?

ASM1

Bob,

Bob White is not responding to this because it is beyond his stop sign. BUT, because we are a Charter Organization I can tell you for a fact that the COR is a member of the Troop Committee, it is preferable that the COR be a member of the CO, but not madatory and is assigned by the CO. However, as we are going through this now, NO, and I wish I could post this in 50 size font, NO member of a CO, or Troop can serve as a Unit Commissioner. Impossible. Unit Commissioner has to be filled by a volunteer from the Ditrict. That position cannot be affiliated with any Troop, Crew, CO, or anything else to do with an individual unit.

However, that being said, it is possible for a Unit Commissioner to be the spouse of a leader of any of the above mentioned positions. But the Unit Commissioner is totally non-bias of membership on the District level. Fact!

If you want recruitment, get the Webelos II's to attend Boy Scout weekend campouts. Have them stay the whole weekend. They will have fun and want to join your troop. BUT, make sure you invite their parents too.

Bob White is freaking out right now, he has to look past that stop sign at the end of his street. He hates that.... LOL!

ASM1

Besides, it is a great Wood Badge ticket! ;-)

ASM1

My oh my! Just insist your adult leaders get trained. Make it madatory! What is the discussion? An adult want to lead, he/she gets trained. Period!

Bob White, you sir have stired my ire with these statements:

So ASM1 ednlighten us. How do you intend to sit in Baltimore and recruit thousands of new scouts in Chicago? Which packs should a boy consider joining? What troop do you feel has the best program? What night do they meet? Maybe what they need are more units in general. Who would be a good chartering organization and who is the executive of organization? Who do you think they should recruit to be the new Council President. Have you talked with them yet? Are they willing to do the job?

I'm sure your your inimate knowledge of their community, its resources, their problems and the solution, will be invaluable to the people of Chicago.

By the way if the problem is membership the solution is better unit meetings not a different president or the status of any piece of council property.

God grant me the serenity

to accept the things I cannot change;

courage to change the things I can;

and wisdom to know the difference.

Your heart is in the right place ASM1, but your body is in a different council.

Bob White

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I grew up and lived in Chicago for 28 years, and still have an extremely large list of freinds and clients.

Your ignorance is only overpowered by your stupidity and isolationism mental state. You pretend to be a Scouter, you have no clue what Scouting is about. You follow that book and may even pray to it. But you cannot see the forest for the trees. Your blind.

I just got a letter from BSA National Council thanking our company for our views and requesting our corporation to assist in the CAC disaster. IF you had bothered to even check out our company web site, you would have seen that this corporation is a deligent supporter of the World Scouting movement. Our CEO resides in Mumbia India and is a member on the Board of Directors of the Bahrat Scout Guides of India.

After my last post on September 30, 2002, I made arrangements to open an office in Chicago and, as you say, RECRUIT! I will however, ask your forgiveness for caring about the national movement. I realize from your post to me, that it really is none of my business and that I should remain in my little troop and district.

But alas, I care. See you in Kandersteg in 2006. Oh, I'm sorry, that is a little bit further than the stop sign at the end of your street. Oh well, buy a map!

ASM1

Yeah, your right. Have it your way.

ASM1

You folks are a joke. ScoutNut, Bob White, wow! The old saying comes to mind, "Can't see the forest for the trees" A little bit of facts. I grew up in the CAC program as a scout, then as an ASM with my oldest son. CAC was huge, roundtable was a true event. I have been aware of the CAC problems for some time because my business takes me to Chicago often. I still have friends in CAC today. But the Owasippe sale set me off. The CAC population has been shrinking many years and my opinion in this forum is just a reflection of the feelings of some people there. They are sick of the lack of recruitment.

My intentions were to see if I could find more people there who know the problems. What I got was, "mind your own business", "who are you to be concerned with another council?"

I guess I have to thank my lucky stars that our council watches the stability of the other councils in the nation. I guess we think that if there are problems in other places, they can and might spread here. But I also guess as long as we have people like me and my other "Nosey" scouters in our council, those problems may never find us.

And ScoutNut, tell me, why do you think contributing money to Owasippe will fix the problem if there are no scouts to attend? Or should "Nosey" people like me just keep throwing money into the pot and dare not ask why the scouting population is shrinking?

You and Bob suffer from tunnel vision. I will print this thread out and take it to our roundtable. I am sure there will be a lot of stunned folks there when they read it.

ASM1

Bob White,

First of all my wife and serve on several District and Council committees. It is at one of these Council committees that I learned of the severe trouble CAC is in. Our Council seems to be very distraught over the possible loss of CAC. We do not choose to bury our head in the sand and say it is someone elses problem so let them handle it.

And I bet your probably wrong about nobody in CAC giving two hoots about my opinion. Why I bet there are a lot of people in CAC that appeciate the concern shown by other Council's around the nation.

Tell me, how is it that your Council is unaware of the struggle? And how is it you think I am self righteous because I care? And one more, how is it you don't seem to give a hoot about another Council, or scout. After all, are we not taught in our leaders training that BSA is a family?

I suppose where you come from with your unique talents that it is very wrong to think outside your community. I am sorry for you.

ASM1

I have to cry Foul!

I have met some very good friends in this forum and some of them have contacted me personally and offered help and material that could have never been purchased. It is just shear devotion to the scouting movement that has motivated them to contact me. In fact our new units could have never succeeded without the personal attention and devotion of one particular member of this forum. (you know who you are, and I am forever in your debt)

But, that is one, one who is concerned of the scouting movement outside their own council. I am of the same sort. I posted this message three days ago and only one person responded saying I should contact the Council in question before BSA shuts it down. How sad.

I see tremendous response to why a scout made First Class so fast, or why a Mom is not allowed, everyone has an opinion on how the program should be run. Bob White enjoys being the King of the forum on information and how to Do it right. Well, there is a real problem with the Boy Scouts of America at the root level that I see no interest in.

I am dedicated to BSA in every way that my personal life allows. I own my own business, I have chartered a Troop and Venture Crew, I hired extra people to do my job so I can devote 90% of my time to my Council and help in any way I can to repay to Scouting the future it has given my three sons. (two of which are leaders in Scouting as well)

Yet my call to help the Chicago Area Council and to save the largest metropolitan Scouting community has fallen on deaf ears. I see no outrage of Bob White and the others to save this Council from the mismanagement it has suffered over the years. Once the largest Council in the USA and also once one of the strongest, now one of the smallest Councils and so bankrupt that is has to sell the oldest scout reservation in our country is a sin of magnitude unimaginable.

This forum has lost my respect. The members care for them, and them only. Their petty problems with their troop, they do not like their Scoutmaster. They will leave this troop if this man is elected SM. You all pretend to be Scouts You have no clue.

How can the future of Scouting be assured when the Council of a city of 8 Million people fails. What the hell are you all thinking about?!? Do you think that Scouting exists in your own little town and that is it? You need to understand the business of Scouting. When you lose Chicago, the end is so very near. 8 Million people and we let it go?????

I do not see much difference between this situation and the possible terrorist nuclear bomb in New York and people across the nation saying, so what, it is not here, so I dont care In case you have not noticed, Scouting is not about you, it is about your children and the future of Scouting for their children. If you ignore this, you do not deserve to be in Scouting. And I do not care if you have your Wood Badge and are so impressed with yourself that your sons Eagle means more to you than the future of Scouting. If you think I am wrong, please try to explain the lack of response to this original post, and justify the 5 pages of responses to mom not being allowed to attend a campout. I want to alert all of you of your lack of devotion to the REAL scouting movement and how you are ignoring it.

ASM1

Rooster7

I have both legs to stand on and as a Chartered Organization, I also have a vote on the Council. Tell me, what is it you have to stand on other than your diatribe? Back it up, or back it out...

ASM1

Are we allowed to attach files in this forum? I want to publish our charter contract to dispell this garbage being pumped into this debate about a CO having a choice of who attends campouts. There is a ton of BS being pumped into this forum by people who only wish they knew.

If we cannot attach files, then I will post on our company web site so it can be read. The BS has to stop!

ASM1

That is exactly what this is about. This Council President has to go. At their last Council meeting they have decided that they have no choice but to close the oldest Scout camp in the USA, Owasippe. Founded in 1911 and encompassing more than 5,000 acres. If you know the facts you will soon see that this council used to be one of the strongest in the nation. Now through shear ignorance they have so few scouting units that they cannot cover the cost of running this camp. The Owasippe web site is desperately trying to raise funds to cover the losses. But any business man knows this will not save this camp from death. Only an immediate replacement of this Council President who has ignored recruitment for so many years can save one of the greatest Scout reservations in the nation. This man has got to go. He blames Owasippe for thier loss of attendace.

ASM1

Please write letters asking for his removal to save this reservation.

I would like to know if there is anyone in this forum from the Chicago Area Council? I am in the Baltimore Area Council, but need to speak to someone from CAC.

ASM1

The is extremely important to the future of scouting.

Twocubdad,

Thank you! Finally someone who knows what their talking about.

ASM1

You people have way too much time on your hands. ;-) Does this thread have an end?

ASM1

I have no problem with "Guy Time" But how do we accomplish this "Guy Time" in a Venture Crew with "GIRLS!" Yuk!!! You guys need to get with the 21st century. You want "Guy Time" spend some time taking your son to a football game, or baseball game. You make the time and decision to spend some quality time with only your son. If your in a group like scouts, live the policies, don't bend them to fit.

ASM1

Well, it looks like YoungBlood and Jerry may be a little afraid to be shown up on backpacking trips by mom. In one of the troops in our district there is a mom Venture Crew leader that I would match up against any dad on any backpacking journey. She just can't be matched in stamina and drive to scouting. Not possible.

And Bob White, I am very glad you do not sit on our board of directors in this company. You just know to much about to many things to be of any good authority on any of them.

ASM1

No Morman bashing intended. My wife is still Morman. She just has problems with their rules they impose but have no intention of following.

ASM1

BRAVO Benny!!