asm 411

Our Scouts are given a guideline amount of ... gosh at the moment I can't remember if it $10 or $15 per Scout. Anyway, the trouble we run into sometimes if we have a patrol that only has two or three Scouts attending it is difficult to stay in budget. If we have a full head count of eight they typically come in under budget.

I have been thinking about talking with the PLC about coming up with a sliding scale depending on head count. This is just a guideline so I am not sure if it even needs to be addressed.

What I found to be interesting is that when a Scout goes over the budget the members of his patrol give him grief for it. Once again let the Scouts handle it and it will correct itself.

I worked in a grocery store as a youth. You may find this hard to believe but during Easter week the only time the eggs were refrigerated was when they were on display for the customers. We would sell several palettes of eggs the week before Easter. I worked at the store for years and as far as I know we never had a complaint.

So I would not worry about 72 hours at effectively room temperature.

Choosing to be a Scouter is a big responsibility. It seems wherever I go I see Scouts I know. That being said I have to be a good example at all times, in and out of uniform. For me that is pretty easy.

On more than one occasion I have had a Scout say to me something about it is okay because I am not in uniform. I then tell them being a Scout is not about what we wear but who we are on the inside. That the Scout Oath and Law is something we live at all times not just at meetings and on campouts.

The Scout Law begins with "A Scout is" I think it should end with "I am a Scout" as a constant reminder that it is not a description of someone else.

Our Troop has been chartered my the local UMC for almost 70 years. We had a good relationship with the pastor who was there for a number of years. He was very supportive and also very hands off. He was transferred away and the temporary pastor seemed to tolerate us for about a year. About three months ago a new pastor was put in place. The Scoutmaster and I discussed how we can be more involved with the charter organization other than several Scouts showing up on Scout Sunday once a year.

I had the opportunity to sit down with the pastor and chat. Turns out he is an Eagle Scout. We came up with a few ideas. The first is we added him to our email list so he knows the kinds of things we are doing. The second is that the PLC meetings will be held at the church. The church does not have a large enough room to have regular meetings so we meet at one of the local schools.

The pastor also said he would let us know of any service projects we can do for the church. It is start. I think it is important that the Scouts know who is supporting them.

highcountry -

I think one of the most important things that any adult leader needs to know is the boundaries of their position. Understanding where the Scoutmasters or ASM job starts and ends, where any particular committee members job starts and ends.

For instance when we leave for a campout we publish when we expect the Scouts to show up at the meeting place and when we are leaving. We leave on time unless we get phone call. If we have a Scout who is running late we leave one care behind. The rest of the Troop with the SPL leaves on time. So that the many don't suffer because of the few or the one. The Scouters job is drive to the event safely. The Scouts job is to show up on time. If a Scout does not show who was suppose I will talk to him next time I see him to make sure he is okay. I will talk with him about being polite when not showing up.

When the Committee Chair asks me to do something. I always ask myself if it is an ASM should do or not. If not I point to the right person. It is so easy for Scouters to take on more than their share of the load. Do I do things outside my circle, certainly. A Scout is helpful and all but I really tried to keep from doing it too often. I love Scouting so I want to savour it for years.

Lincoln is my name.

I think I will spin off a thread. Thanks.

Hi Beavah!

"Yah, if that were da case, then why is the being active requirement a part of the program as it's been designed? Seems like someone felt it was an important design element to include, eh?"

Ah, you have surrounded me with my own words. LOL

Lincoln

There is troop near where I live that has a membership waiting list. The troop has near 100% attendance at every weekly meeting and on most campouts. I was amazed to find this out. I asked the Scoutmaster why he thought was. His answer was "I run the program as designed."

Since then I have done everything I can to understand and implement what that simple statement means. I read several forums, I have read many old and current Boy Scout and Scoutmaster handbooks. I have brought to my troop as much as I can as an ASM the "program as design." Our Scoutmaster is on the same page with me. We have higher attendance than in past years. We don't have a waiting list ... yet.

If Scouters would take more time running "The program as designed" there would be no need for the "Being Active" requirement.

Our Scoutmaster and I use trust but verify all the time. In most cases it becomes obvious pretty quickly if a Scout did something.

I might have asked something like this: "During the swimmers test which lap did you find the hardest? The third lap or the backstroke lap?"

There is no trick there just an honest question.

Often times I have found that asking a Scout about the experience makes them remember or not remember something important.

Just a couple weeks ago a Scout requested a Scoutmaster's conference for First Class and I was sure he did not do the orienteering requirement. I asked where he did the requirement. He named a camp that does not have an orienteering course. He had mixed up Map and Compass with Orienteering. It was an honest mistake. I explained the difference. No big deal. I then went to the older Scout who had signed him off on it and talked to him about verifying what he was signing off on.

Lot's of good lessons here.

Chocolate Banana Cream Pie with Graham Cracker Crust. Yum Yum

Know, Be, Do.

Take the troop leader training we deliver the boys to heart and you will go far.

Sierra cup with leather wrapped handle for cooking on backpacking trips.

I have utensil with a fork on one end and a spoon on the other.

I always carry a leatherman when camping, that is what I use to cut stuff when needed.

I always wipe the the Sierra cup clean with "wilderness soup" or bread depending on the meal. I do use the three dish method for "real cleaning" after most meals, it takes about 10 seconds because the cup and utensils are already clean.

There is only one Scout in our troop that has picked up on the sierra cup idea. That is my son. Unfortunately the lesson of easy clean up seems to have escaped him so far. He is typically the Scout who cleans his gear "before" he eats instead of "after" he is done. LOL

Scouters have to have an open mind. Personally I would take backpacking over anything that has to do with the water. I am not afraid of the water. I earned most of the water front awards while a Scout and when I was in college I swam about 6 miles a week. I just prefer the woods to the water front. All that being said our Scouts wanted to go to Tinnerman, a canoe base in Canada owned by the Cleveland Council. I signed up as adult leader for the trip because that is what they want to do.

I would like to go to Philmont someday. With that as goal I have have brought backpacking into our troop by selling it to the PLC. We did a short trip last year, a little over 4 miles and we are going 10 miles this month. Last year it took much more effort on my part. This year it was the Scouts who brought up the idea I just did some leg work to find out what options are available.

Our current SPL and several other Scouts really want to go to Sea Base so we have just secured a spot in 2010 to go. Perhaps Philmont in 2012 or 2013, who knows?

So I guess what I am getting at is that as Scouters we need to sell the things we are interested in to see if the Scouts want to do them. We also need to support the Scouts in the ones they already think they want to do regardless of our preferences.

Lastly and this is probably the hardest is to be motivated about is to find out what the opportunities there are for things that the Scouts have not brought up and are not on the top of our own lists This way the Scouts and the Scouters can all grow in their interests.

A home schooled patrol within a troop that is great idea!

As one of my Wood Badge tickets I contacted all the Home School networks in my area and offered to present Scouting to them. I mailed, emailed and called. Not one took me up on the offer. I found that surprising because at the time I had a Scout in my Webelos Den that was home schooled and his mom thought Scouting was a way for home schoolers to get some good social interactions they were missing by not going to public schools.

We have had Eagles that stay and some that leave. I think that is the nature of the business. We have some Scouts at all ranks that stay and some that leave. We have had Scouts return to finish Eagle we have had others return to go camping.

I think continually talking to the Scouts and parents that Eagle is one thing that can be done in Scouts but is not the end of the game is very important. We start this with Webelos and their parents. Additionally we encourage our Eagles, aged out or not, to continue to participate when their school or work schedules permit. I think this shows the younger Scouts that Eagle is not the end of the line.

One last point I would like to make. Our troop has gone through a lot of changes in the last three years. The one that has been most import in keeping the older Scouts involved is working the Patrol Method. Let the Scouts pick what they want to do and they will come. No matter how great an idea I think I have if I can't sell it to the SPL it stinks. If the SPL likes it and he sells it to the PLs all is good. Many times my idea seeds grow in ways I did not expect but as long as the Scouts have fun when they are together I think whatever they grow into is good.

I agree with the others who say you have tried to resolve this at the troop level long enough. Take it to the next level today.

Never stifle a boys enthusiasm is one of my mantras.

A tale of two brothers -

The older brother crossed over in fifth grade as an AoL Webelos. He completed the requirements for First Class in eighth grade. Currently he is Star and a freshman in high school. He is going at his own pace and will probably make Eagle by the time he is 17. This Scout loves sports and plays almost year round. He is also a den chief.

The younger brother crossed over last February also a AoL Webelos in addition he earned all 20 activity pins. He earned First Class in early October and completed Star in the minimum 4 months. He is knocking on Life's door, I think he is just waiting on the time requirement. He went to summer camp twice. My bet is he will be a very young Eagle, probably the youngest Eagle our troop has ever seen. He has no interest in sports. He is in the band. He is typically the first to sign up for anything the troop does.

My point is that these guys are progressing at there own pace as the program is designed.

The Scouter philosophy in our troop is to provide the Scouts with opportunities. If they choose to take advantage of the opportunities that is up to them.

The idea of throwing roadblocks in the way is actually offensive to me. What is the point? What are these people thinking?

I would think 5 Scouts simple because "by the book" a patrol is 5 to 8 Scouts. A troop is made up of patrols.

I would also say it is better to start with 3 than not start at all. Either way a plan for recruiting should be pretty high on the list.

I think it would be great to have a list of AOL recipients by year and a list of Cub Masters also by year.

All Scouts in our troop I consider friends. I say hi or wave to them when I see them outside of Scouting. I talk with them about things I do outside of Scouting and in general enjoy being around them.

Then again perhaps I am over-trained. I treat all youth I come in contact with the same way I treat Scouts while doing Scouting. YP is not just a good idea that applies to Scouting. I would say that in today's environment it is best to not be alone with youth, to copy parents if emailing them, only call youth on the phone when there are others are present at least on your end and call their home number before calling the cell.

I don't do texting with anyone yet so I am not quite sure how others handle that.

So yes it is okay to have Scouts as friends in my opinion.

Thanks Stosh, that clears things up.

Our ASPL's main job is to run the game portion of our meeting. He has other duties as well mostly as directed by the SPL.

I would like to see the ASPL managing the Scribe, QM, TG, Librarian... but currently we have bigger fish to fry.

Stosh - I am curious why you disassemble your patrols to form a TOC patrol for outings?

Thanks for the information. The key words "toggle rope" and "commando rope" made all the difference to Google.

Thanks for the caution on usage as well.

I did my Wood Badge course in 2005 and we made patrol ropes using what I would call a double slip knot technique.

I was talking with a Scouter some time ago who did Wood Badge quit a few years before. He had a six foot length of rope with a dowel eye spiced on one end and an a regular eye splice on the other. This was done so the patrol rope could be hooked to itself or other patrol ropes using the dowel and like a button and the eye splice like a button hole.

Does anyone have instructions for this style patrol rope? If it is called a patrol rope. I can experiment with the dowel and rope diameters and lengths but I would like to skip to the end on that part if possible.

I do NOT need instructions on how to eye splice. I have had that part covered since I earned pioneering merit badge back in the late 70's.

I am hoping to give our SPL an example of each so he can give the patrols a choice of which type they would like to carry/create for a wilderness survival outing.

Thanks,

Lincoln

I used to be a Bear and continue to be an Eagle

As for Manatoc they run 7 weeks with about 400 Scouts each week. You can see the reservation schedule here:

http://www.gtcbsa.org/manatoc/summer_camp/2009_summer_camp_reservations.pdf

Even councilors at Manatoc make mistakes. We have had to hunt down councilors for not signing off on requirements several times.

We even had one Scout come back with a completed blue card and he said "What should I do I did no complete one of the requirements." I told him that when he did the requirement come and see me, I happen to be a councilor for the MB. He tried to hand me the signed off blue card. I told him that I trusted him to do the right thing and to put it with his other blue cards until he needed was ready.

Mistakes happen sometimes but as far as I can tell the MBC at Manatoc do the best they can to get it right. Each MBC has charts of the requirements with the Scouts names and check them off as they are completed. Seems to work well most of the time.