asm 411

Wow, it would be a great loss if they closed this High Adventure camp.

pargolf44067 you can see the form I was mentioned previously at -

http://www.sharonscouts.org/workInProgress/scoutActivityChoicesForm.html

If anyone sees anything they think should be added to make the form more useful feel free to let me know. Thanks.

The Scouts decide who they tent with. We have 4-man timberlines.

Most times it is two Scouts per tent because that comfortable fits the gear inside. We actually discourage three in a tent because we had a few busted zippers a several years ago with three in the tent. Looking back most of us Scouters believe this had more to do with two Scouts who moved on to another troop than having three in the tent.

If a patrol has an odd number of Scouts the most common solution is the odd Scout sleeps alone. The one exception to this is Klondike where the PLC requires at least two to a tent for heat capacity and safety reasons. Last year my son requested to sleep in my tent instead of going for three in a tent. Everybody was good with that so that is what we did. Normally we discourage Scouts from sleeping with their Dads because we believe it leads to a breakdown of the Patrol Method and this was an exception.

I got back from Tinnerman Canoe Base about a week ago.

It was a great trip. The crew had five Scouts (ages 13 to 17) and two Scouters (one 18 and me 45). The trip was really great. The guide was well trained and did his job very well. He kept us on course but did not control the trip. He pointed out options and let the Scouts make choices about what to do.

The food was as good as it gets when it comes to lightweight. Most of it was of the add to boiling water variety but not all of it. We had bacon for breakfast, apples for lunch and even a cake one evening for dessert. There was enough food but not too much and definitely not too little. The way I could tell is we were not hauling any extra when we got back to the base camp on the last day and the Scouts did not complain about being hungry.

We were on the French River and in the Georgian Bay in Ontario Canada for the week. There were some days that we saw no signs of other humans (no boats, cabins or anything). We did pass cabins on the river on other days but they were very few of those. One day we saw three yachts anchored together and figured we must be near civilization.

If you are not sure where to bring your Scouts for a High Adventure trip next year I recommend you look into going to Tinnerman Canoe Base. The Canoe Base is owned by the Cleveland Council. They have bus service set up from NE Ohio. Even if you are coming from far away, you could drive or fly to Ohio and take the bus from there. It makes the border crossing a lot easier.

If you have never taken your Scouts on a High Adventure trip I highly recommend you do. I cannot put into words how much the Scouts grew personally. I literally watch them mature and become better citizens. Every Scout and Scouter who went came away with memories that will last a lifetime.

If you have any questions let me know.

Here is a link to information about the base:

www.gccbsa.org/Pages/Tinnerman.html

There are several benefits I noticed when I was a den leader about having weekly meetings as opposed to any other schedule (first and third, second and fourth, every other..). The biggest benefit is that there is no question if there is a meeting this week. A close second is that meeting every week also keeps the Scouts thinking about Scouting.

Here is the hard part, you are changing the culture of the troop. In my opinion it is for the better but still it is a change. Change often meets with resistance and takes time. As with everything else the Scouts have to want to do it. My suggestion is that you present the benefits of meeting weekly to the Scouts and get their buy in first. Then make the change.

Don't fall into the trap of mandating attendance for rank advancement (not only is this not allowed but it is also counter productive) or anything else. Work with the Scouts to have a program that is interesting enough that Scouts want to be there. Yet another opinion of mine is that the only way it is possible to have program truly interesting to the Scouts is if the Scouts are the ones choosing the activities, campout destinations and what is going to done at the meetings and on the campouts. With your guidance of course.

Hint: What our troop does is every year before we do the yearly planning the Scouts fill out a survey that has all the topics from the Program Features listed. Each Scout picks his top 12. The program features that have the hightest interest is what the PLC uses to design the program for the year.

If you are interested I can put an example form out on the web for you to see, use, modify for your own purposes...

Lastly this change may require changing your weekly meeting night. I know my wife is pretty possesive of our family time on the weekends. Though I have also heard some troops have had great success meeting every Sunday. Typically there is no sports or school events going on and homework is easily finished before hand. Since you have a small group it should be easy to discuss it with Scout families once you have the Scouts on board.

Don't worry about the how long it takes for the Scouts to get to First Class. Think in terms of making sure there are opportunities for them to complete the requirements. It is up to them to take advantage of those opportunities and to set the pace.

I agree with raisinemright.

I would like to add a few things having had many years with 2000 plus road miles.

Helmet and Glasses are absolutes no one should mount a bike without them.

Dog Tags - I wear them every time I ride. They have essential information on them like name, address, contact number and blood type.

Clip-on blinking light. My wife got this for me as a gift. It clips on your jersey pocket and can be scene from far away. The cool thing is that if you are on doing something like fixing a flat on the side of the road cars coming up from behind you can still see the light from far away. It is light enough that you don't even notice it is there. The clip is really good so you don't have to worry about it.

The Dog tags and blinking light can be gotten from www.RoadID.com. I am not affiliated with RoadId in anyway other being a customer.

Being one who earned the Eagle Rank I always felt the statement "Once an Eagle always an Eagle" meant that the rank was an accomplishment that could not be taken away. The other end of that particular stick is that an Eagle has a responsibility to live up to the bar the Eagle has set for himself in fulfilling the requirements of the rank. (See Eagle Charge)

Now I have been known to say that ignorance is bliss. Once a boy or man recites the Scout Oath and Law he now has the knowledge of what it is to be a good citizen and has a responsibility to himself and others to respect that knowledge and live by those words. Even if he drops out of the program that knowledge does not go away.

Taking off the uniform does not take away the knowledge or the responsibility. Being a Tenderfoot for life does not take away that knowledge. So to me the highest rank a Scout reaches is of little consequence as long as he lives by the oath and law.

Once last point is that advancement is 1 of 8 Methods of Scouting. Just because a Scout has, for himself, finished that path does not mean that he is done with that method of Scouting because he can always help others along that path.

"I'm hoping to help our SM develop a written, clear, fair, logical policy about cell phone use. This seat-of-the-pants policy is not working. I think there is a compromise here that gets what he is trying to accomplish more effectively than is happening today. "

So little time so many policies to write. I only have one hour a week you know.

Family policies and Troop Policies and school policies and sports policies. Wow, so many rules to obey.

tombitt perhaps you should teach your son that in different situations we have to adapt to different rules. That we work change rules we think are not as they should be.

FWIW our PLC polices cell phone usage this was the PLC's idea. We used to have no cell phone policy but then you have to have disciplinary action for rule breakers. The adults play the game of who has a cell phone the campout and how do we catch them with it. It turns out it is a lot easier to help the Scouts understand what is appropriate use of cell phones and what is not during Scout meetings and events.

Here is the kicker, most of the camps we go to have no service anyway.

I have a fist full of U of S CDs from our council. The information is a great resource. But I keep asking myself why they don't save the expense of producing the CDs and put the documents on the council website?

It would provide access to those who can't make the event and then every Scouter would not have to keep a personal library.

Another thing about having each year online is would make it great for reference. For instance even though every year we have a course called something like "New Scoutmaster Essentials" it is taught by a different SM. I have gone three times and it is completely different. Each time the information is great. I would love to be able to read over the handout from every time the course has been taught. A wealth of out in the woods experience.

"You have to know when to push and when to pull."

Wow, this is such a great line and I would like to add a bit to it -

You have to know when to push

And you have to know when to pull

You have to know when to throw them a line

And you have to know when to walk away so they can climb up alone

You have to know when to catch them

And you have to know when to let the them fall

You have to know when to guide

And you have to know when to let them show you the way

You have know when to listen

And you have to know when to speak

You have to know when to whisper

And you have to know when to shout

You have to get to know your Scouts

And they have to get to know you

The (Damn) Yankees is the name of that miserable baseball team from NY. I know because I used to live in CT and was told many times about it. Then I moved to NE OH and found out just what people farther away thought of them. Additionally not very complementary. Not being a big fan of the great American past time all I can do is go on what others tell me.

"But so many scouters (especially the ones with the red, white and blue square knots) know that there is nothing more for them to learn."

Ouch... I never have been stereotyped as someone who knew there was nothing more for me to learn. Actually I would have to say that earning that red, white and blue square knot was something that opened my eyes to how little I did know.

I am truly sorry that you have experienced this kind of behavior from my fellow Eagles. Please accept my apology for their behavior.

Our patrols are looking to buy two man backpacking tents.

They are looking at the Eureka Spitfire 2 or Zeus.

Anyone have experience with these tents?

Do you have any other suggestions on two man backpacking tents.

Thanks

"As a Scoutmaster, I really get worn down by having to explain the program to the adults time after time. ..."

Though not being the SM I have taken care of most of this problem for our troop. I put together a packet for new Scouts and parents. I go through the packet with the Webelos and parents on the Webelos outing in the fall (Each in coming Webelos family sees the information twice). When a boy joins that was not a Webelos I go through the packet with them the day they turn in their application. It spells out things clearly about how our troop works. It started out pretty short a little more than a page. Now I think it is around 7 pages. If I notice the Scouters answering the same questions several times I put and explaination it in the packet. It is well worth the 30 to 45 minutes worth of training I give each new family.

Oh oh oh I know ...

I bead for each course!

It strikes me as odd that the issue here is about the requirement itself.

I think if I were in this position I may have explained to the Scouts that longer their patrols stays together the better it reflects on them.

(Assuming no troop guide or other Scout to help them) I would explain that a paper flag is a good start but a patrol needs a flag that can withstand weather and camping. Ask them what materials they think would to achieve the purpose. Then help them distribute the list of materials among the members.

One last point, encourage them to have it done before the next meeting. Encourage patrol activities outside the weekly meetings and monthly camp outs.

As for signing off on the requirement, sign it. They described what they flag looks like. Helping bound them as patrol members is well worth it.

Neither.

I think we Scouters are more teachers or guides. I think from your description you fit into that category.

As for wearing the official neckerchief you could check to see what the insignia guide or Webelos leader handbook says. As for me as long as they are the same material so they look like they belong together go for. I bet making their own will encourage them to wear them more.

Following subthread -

My favorite cub craft project was Hot Wheel cars Gorilla Glued to PVC pipe. My son made is about 4 years ago and wore it to an ECOH last week. He said is his favorite. It must be he has lost all the others. LOL

I think the PVC pipe stays on better than the typical BSA slide. Additionally I think Woggles work really well. I have taught several of our Scouts how to make them. The cool thing is now they are teaching others.

I guess I am way out of the norm.

I have my Eagle medal, two religious awards medals, my original OA sash, several West Point camporee neckerchiefs ... All my blue cards. My Scoutmaster told us over and over again to put them in a safe place they are really important. I was a good listener then. I have had them all for almost 30 years.

I have lived in many locations, my parents got divorced when I graduated from High School and a lot of stuff went in a lot of directions but my Scout stuff box and Matchbox car collection seemed to stick with me. Unlike my Lionel trains.

Thanks for all the great information and the heads about bats and Laural Cavern is specific.

For those who may be interested -

"Commercial caves that cater to tourists, such as Laurel Caverns in Farmington, are not affected by the moratorium.

'People come (to commercial caves) and take tours wearing regular clothes, they're not seasoned cavers who are possibly wearing old clothes or have been in other caves,' said Lisa Hall, director of case studies at Laurel Caverns."

full story

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_620213.html

I will be sure the PLC informs the patrols about this issue with bats to help spread the word and help protect the bats.

I am looking for some guidance.

Our troop is going caving at a place called Laurel Caverns. During the outing the Scouts will be split because there are levels for those 12 and older and levels for those younger than 12.

My question is do we need two adults with each group? That is the approach we are taking but I am not sure if it is required to maintain two deep leadership.

This is in a public place with guided tours.

A few words -

1) Being and Eagle Scout has nothing to do with if you will learn anything at Wood Badge or not. As I mentioned above I was in a patrols with almost all Eagles and everyone of us felts as though when the course was completed it that it was well worth the cost and effort.

2) "To learn read, to know write, to master teach." This was printed on the paper danglely thing on my tea bag the other morning. I believe that Wood Badge helps us to be better teachers. In Wood Badge I got to read and write and through that I learn how to be a better teacher among other things.

Unfortunately most people miss the point that Scoutmaster is formed from the word schoolmaster and is intended to mean teacher of Scouts.

3) "Status symbols (beads, woggels, tartan), a WB values not these things (cheap yoda ripoff quote)....for more than what they are versus what they represent. " I could not agree more. If someone came in my house and stole my WB regalia, my Eagle medal and my OA sash I would be no less than I am today. I would just have less stuff to put on for different occasions.

There are days where I think all Scouters should only wear the minimum uniform. Shirt with CSP, numbers, flag... No knots and no beads. Then I remember that were are role models for the Scouts. That we want them to be proud of their accomplishments and so we should show them we are proud of ours.(This message has been edited by asm 411)

Congratulations and great job on all your hard work.

My nephew who lives 500 miles away named me as mentor at his Eagle Court of Honor. He listed all the ways in which I had encouraged and inspired him since he was Tiger at the ECOH. Some things I knew, many I had never realized. Being named his Eagle mentor is one of the things in my life I am most proud of.(This message has been edited by asm 411)

I had anticipated BulldogBlitz's question but True Believer's retort I did not foresee. I am still snickering over it.

Great job!

Make sure every Scouter involved from this point on knows the right way to deliver the program to the patrols in your troop so all your hard work does not go to waste.