asm 411

I also agree with John that this is the way it is most of the time. As an ASM I was asked to take over as primary mentor to the SPL once. The SPL was the Scoutmaster's son. The Scoutmaster thought it was better for his son to have my perspective since the SPL already knew his Dad as a mentor for years. Additionally, it is likely I will be the next Scoutmaster so it was a learning opportunity for me as well. It worked well. The other Scouts did not even notice the change because most of the time I was interfacing with Scout to prepare for meetings and events and not much during the way it should be.

I believe it is up to the Scout to do the job.

I have been asked to help two Scouts along the way so far.

This is all I do and so far it is working. Sometimes they do not call as indicated in the last question but eventually they do.

At our first meeting I ask -

Do you want to be an Eagle Scout?

What do you have left to do?

Where do you want to start?

At subsequent encounters -

What have you done since we last spoke?

What do you have left to do?

What are going to do to get it done?

Is there anything I can do to help?

When should I expect to hear from you again?

This seems to work a lot better than many of the other threat, bribes and dragging techniques I have seen others use.

Just goes to show that advancement is only one of the eight methods we use!

I believe almost anything can become a weapon with a little bit of creativity. We are back to just because a few idiots do the wrong thing everyone is going to be punished.

I have carried a pocket knife everyday since I earned my Eagle back in 1980. Today I would have been thrown out of school. The knife I currently carry has a large blade, small blade, can opener, screw driver/bottle opener, phillips had screwdriver, awl, toothpick and tweezers. It is the Scout version of the Victorinox Tinker. I seem to use it every day for something.

I am a firm believer that as Scouters we are here to teach Scouts to be responsible tool users. This include pocket knives, axes, cell phones, the internet, their own brains and anything else that is handy. When asked "What are Scouts prepared for?" BP replied "Any old thing."

They are best prepared if we teach them to use tools?

Doesn't make the most sense to keep several tools on their person at all times. A pocket knife certain works there.

Wouldn't a Scout who gets lost in the wooeds stand a far better chance if he had a knife of any kind on his person?

In response to Sephrina's posting: We make a similar cobler without the tin foil.

The troop used to line the dutch ovens when we made this and other similar coblers but we found that the tin foil is not necessary. Actually, we found clean up is quicker and easier without the tin foil if the dutch oven is properly seasoned. With tin foil, if any of the juice does get under the lining it burns on really hard. If the whole desert burns on the bottom, which is rare, it just seems to peel away easily in one big chunk.

The added benefit is nothing needs to go into the landfill.

Dessert for thought ... er I meant food.

About 5 years ago, I notice at a round table meeting there seems to be two profiles for Scouters. The "D"s and the "I"s. I have been fighting hard to be an "I". Sometimes it is harder than others. I have never been a full fledged "D".

It is a tough battle for Scouters but we certainly need to be the example.

I agree the National Key 3 should be put together a plan where they don't need to pull their rank to get into the National Jamboree.

BP and Green Bar Bill are great examples.

Which positions are positions of leadership?

SPL, PL, ASPL?, Troopguide?, JASM?

We have a unique situation coming up this year. We currently have two full patrols. We have about 20 Webelos crossing over in February. To put the new Scouts in patrols with older Scouts we will need to at least partially break up the current patrols that are functioning quite well. There are several options here from complete reshuffling to pulling a few from each.

My solution, yet to be discussed with the Scoutmaster, is to have the PLC decide. If they decide to make new patrols I am going to recommend that we have the Webelos decide if they want to be their own patrol(s) or join existing patrols. Each new Scout can choose what he anyway he likes. If they choose the stick together path they will be assigned a troop guide(s) as is typically done. Since there could be as many as 3 new scout patrols our older Scouts are going to be stretched leadership wise either way.

Any other suggestions?

My daughter did not sell cookies to the Scouts, she sold them to the parents.

I would expect my son would do the same.

The youth are there just to encourage the parents. LOL

My daughter sold a lot of cookies to the troop last year. ... ... My son on the otherhand did not try and sell popcorn at the Brownie meeting. A potential flaw in his marketing plan.

Over the last few years I have developed this philosophy. I will only "teach" scouts one or two at a time outside of TLT. Unfortunately TLT is set up that some sections are lead by adults.

When I see something that seems like a Scout could use a little helpful advice I usually talk to his PL or more than likely the SPL to get him heading in the right direction. When I say talk to his PL I mean I ask the PL a question like "Did you happen to notice the attack William is taking on washing the dishes?" This is typically enough to get whatever was amiss back on track.

There are other times like when a Scout comes and asks me a specific question like "What time is dinner?" That is always answered with "I don't know you, check with your PL." Often times jokingly I look at my ASM patch and wipe it of like somehow it was messed up. The Scouts usually immediately say something like, "Nevermind." and head off to find their PL.

My favorite questions from Scouts are ones like "Can you teach me to tie a woggle or put a dutch oven away properly?" Depending on if there is another Scout available that I have worked with on this particular task will dictate the answer. If there is a capable Scout around I will have the already trained Scout give the instruction. If not I will work with the Scout to learn the Skill.

I have many one to one or one to two conversations with Scouts in a mentoring way. Little nudges in the right direction, often these nudges come in the form questions. Simple things like "How many nights of tent camping do you have?" (For a Scout I know is ready for camping merit badge) or "How many cans of pie filling go into the cobbler?" (For a patrol whose has a menu but no ingredients list). These little questions are usually enough to start them off. I also will say that I limit myself to doing this as little as possible so as not to be nuisance. Additionally to much prompting causes the Scouts to rely on you to remember things for them.

I am to the point now that if I am addressing a whole patrol or worse the whole troop I know that I am not doing the right thing. PLs talk to patrols, SPLs talk to Troops and PLCs. Scoutmasters and their assistants talk to individual Scouts or Scout buddies. As we say in our troop, this Boy Scouts not Man Scouts. The one exception to this is when I have the opportunity to deliver a Scoutmaster's minute. Being an ASM, this is a rare privilege for me.

I think the lagging canoe and bad feelings thing depends on the crew. During the trip I mentioned above two Scouts were typically lagging pretty far behind initially. Everyday the others gave helpful advice/instruction on how to do things a better. By the end of the week our overall speed was much quicker than when started and the group paddled in a tighter group. The guys who were the laggers ended up doing fine. Of course I could see how with a different group things could go as you described.

Our Troop is having an Eagle Court of Honor next Saturday. My son and I will be there in our Field Uniforms right down to the socks of course. I was thinking about if my daughter should wear her Brownie vest as a showing of respect or not. I am sure she would be very proud to do so but I am not sure if it is appropriate or not.

Anyone have any thoughts, official rules, past experience to share?

A little over a year ago the PLC took over policing the use of electronics.

The Scoutmaster and I got tired of playing the "Figure out who has a cell phone" game.

Since the PLC took charge I have not really worried about it. Several Scouts carry cell phones all the time. The Scouts use MP3 players and handheld games while traveling.

Are they texting on Campouts? Probably. Have I seen anyone texting on a campout? Nope.

The PLC does a good job of making sure all the Scouts are tuned in when things are going on.

I think I remember someone having said something like "Never do a job a boy can do." The Scouts can be reasonable if you let them. Take that from them and they won't be.

Wow, 7.5 miles of portages! That is really impressive.

While at Tinnerman we did at most 1/2 mile total of portaging over our 7 day trek. We covered just over 50 miles total.

Thanks for sharing.

Picked up my copy yesterday.

As I leafed through I found it very readable.

The acid test will be on this weekends campout. I am going to use an old Webelos Den Leader trick and leave the new Handbook out at camp. It will be interesting to see who picks up and for how long. What comments they make about it. ... Perhaps I will leave it on the seat on the ride to camp. This months trip is about an hour or so.

I also agree with Acco40 but never forget that the 8 methods of Scouting work together.

Think of each of the eight methods being a post and rope running from each one to all the others. This is the net we use to carry the Scouts to the Aims of Scouting.

My take on recruiting anyone to do anything is simply this you have to ask one person to do one job directly. More specifically you have to ask one person to one task at a time. There are few people who can be counted on to take on a volunteer position ( Advancemnt Chair or Committee Chair or even ASM) figure it out and just do it.

You will have to follow-up and verify the person is on target to complete these initial tasks. As time passes you will find who you can count on and who will still need to continual prodded along. Those who can be counted on after several tasks have been complete you can ask to fill a Troop position. If they agree encourage them to go to training to make it easier for them to do that job and so they can do it correctly.

The key is that for a time, perhaps a long time, you will need to be very dedicated to assigning and managing jobs outside the SM realm of responsibility. As time goes on you will build a group of adults that you can trust to be there. As your are working with these volunteers make sure to mention that if they can handle this aspect of running the Troop you can focus on working with the Scouts which is where your time is best spent.

Our current Scoutmaster has been at this for 3.5 years and we have a few who can be counted on at this point to handle things regularly and a few we know if we need someone to cover for us they will be there. It is a slow process.

I guess my advice to you is to start recruiting people to do tasks and not positions initially. In doing this you teach them the importance of doing stuff for the Scouts in the Troop and raise their comfort level in being involved.

When I sit down with incoming Scouts and parents I explain to them that our Troop has typically about 25 boys involved. That is basically 50 paretns. If every parent does about 2% of the work then things will run very smooth. Everybody

agrees to this but is still takes asking them one at a time and to take on one task at time to get them truly involved.

This seems to work for us. I wish I knew of a quicker path but so far none has presented itself.

There are many Wood Badge holders that have done what we were taught to do, "Use our resources". We work with troops that are made up of Patrols and are training our Scouts both in Scoutcraft based leadership and Wood Badge based management techniques. Only a fool would through out one side or the other completely.

I think it is the melding of the two that truly help Scouts grow into great individuals who are respected by their peers and can go out into the world and make a positive impact with all that they do.

When we were at Tinnerman Canoe Base in the beginning of the month some of the Scouts switched up canoe partners while others did not. Everyone kept the same tent partner for the week. The Scouts did not really seem to care much in either case.

I would let Scouts sort it out. If you notice that one canoe is always way ahead and another always way behind I would work through the SPL or PL and have the fast canoe teach the slow canoe how to paddle correctly.

As for tenting don't spend another second thinking about, the Scouts can certainly handle that on their own.

Thanks for the great information.

I knew it was not a Scout Camp but thanks for the reminder.

Our Scouts really like Fort Stueben and Stigwandish because of the low light pollution and because they are off the beaten path. This place looked similar from what the website had to say. Oddly enough all the pictures show woodlands and water. There was some talk about being able to do some cross country orienteering because of the basic layout. I suppose the attraction was because it looked like it would be more primative and quieter. From what you said that is not the case.

We typically avoid State Parks because of the cost, the cramped camping spaces and random idiots that seem to congregate there. From the way it sounds there may be a high number of random idiots camping here. It also seems too dangerous as well.

I am really glad I asked the question.

Thanks again.

Has anyone camped in the ReCreation Area in Ohio near Zanesville? And if so do you have any advice. The Scouts want to go there next month and we don't know anything about it other then what is on their website.

Thanks

Hey Kudu, thank you.

I learned a lot at Wood Badge and would not trade that experience for anything. Many of the things I learned at Wood Badge I have applied both to Scouting, my home and work life.

To be honest though I have learned more about being a good Scouter from Green Bar Bill through what he wrote in Scout and Scoutmaster Handbooks than anything I learned at Wood Badge.

I just returned from a High Adventure Canoeing trip at Tinnerman Canoe Base about 3 weeks ago. The Crew learned more about leadership and teamwork than I could have ever taught them in any other setting. Five Scouts figuring stuff out for themselves in the wilderness day in and day out for a week while moving to a new campsite everyday. As for me I sat back and watched the Scouts mature mentally and physically, learn to be good team players and good leadership skills along the way. I had two very short conversations with the Crew Leader all week. One about a safety issue and one about how he could be more efficient if he chose to. For the record he handled the safety issue and chose not to be more efficient.

There is another thread currently running that asks about "team building" games. I have kept myself from responding with "Try this - Have all those you want to build as team members divide into groups of 5 to 8. Have each group select one team member for the special opportunity to learn additionally leaderhsip skills while leading the group. If there are more than two teams then have them select a very special member from the group to organize all the teams as whole. He will work exclusively with the special member of each team and will have the opportunity to get direct guidance from a trained and experienced adult when necessary if at all. Have each group plan and execute 2 hikes and 10 campouts, one event a month, over the next year. This team building games final event will be a week long camping experience which they will need to plan. Make sure each of these events include properly balanced meals and who will do the choirs for the event."

Seriously, Wood Badge is a worthwhile training for all Scouters. Continuous education by reading what Green Bar Bill had to say is worth a lot more. Bringing Scouts out in the woods and letting them figure it out on their own is essential to grow a teams and leadership skills.

Everyone on our crew either had a passport or passport card by the time we left. This really was not a big deal. No parent or Scout even mentioned it as being a concern of difficulty.

It takes to long! What kind of an excuse is that? We are talking 30 seconds to a minute.

Retesting? That is ridiculous!

Our troop says the oath, law and pledge at the start of every meeting.

These are words to live by. Starting every meeting, and I mean every meeting, keeps them fresh in our minds.

You are not behind the times.

Those who do not start meetings with the oath and law should, in my opinion, re-evaluate what is meant by "It is the Scoutmaster's job to deliver the program."