2eagles

Ooooo I may have oops. I mentioned this question "Can Scouts Mutiny" to the Core group of the Venture crew that we are forming last night.

They promptly replied it was usually a no win for the scout - adults mad they are challanged and if successful, adults still mad because they were challanged.

However, then they started talking about all these boys who left scouting do to adult interference -- mutiny -- we may have a revolution. They have decided to contact the scouts they know and ask if they are interested in a Boy Lead Crew (with two old but young in mind advisors{does this mean I have demetia})- they also said the scout coming in will have to carry his weight.

The sad part was the # of scouts names that were rolling off their tongues. When I asked why didn't the guys switch troops -- the response equaled what Eagledad said -- they didn't want change

So Here We Go!

Concur with everyone else - let it ride. After 2 + hours on one sons EBOR found out the BOR was 15 min. and done the rest of the conversation was about western marshal arts (sword fighting), using pack saddles, building armour -- so relax unless son brings up -- testing ect.. however it would be good if he knows the oath, law, motto, Pledge of Allegiance (for flag)and slogan.

If your son is a Tiger, he should be about to move to Bobcat/Wolf. Why not step up and be the den leader for the next level or asst. den leader. The hardest part of scouting is to remember is it is mostly volunteers -- and life does happen so volunteer items suffer the most. You would want to volunteer to take the den on the next level now (that does not mean moving the den up) but to get trained and organized for when the Tiger moves up. Part of what you could provide the CM/CC is scheduled den meetings/places/times and a plan to move your cubs to Wolf. Roundtables tend to eb and flow. To find other packs go thru national -- they have a locater. As for the Klondike - that is usually and older Boy scout activity so the question maybe do cubs even know they can go.

As for the cub roundtable, ask for a topic to be presented and attend -- get other parents to attend.

If none of this works - start a Pack. There may be others in your dilema and you will be filling a need.

A wise old silver beaver once told me, If you want your son to get the best of the program, who better than you to provide it.

Good Luck

I was discussing this issue with my sons, when they started laughing, they then told me about the TG who did not want any one scout to move ahead of the others in his patrol. So when my youngest told his brother his wildlife spotting list needed a little more work, his brother offered to keep him company and help. (that in itself is something) They took photos of animal traks and gather LOTS of scat. They carefully labeled it all. The TG was grossed out and didn't give the youngest much grief from then on in. When the troop is boy lead the SM can be blissfully out of the loop. haha

Yep, things improved for women -- now a majority of them HAVE to work and do not have a choice of working or staying at home. The stupidity of the Politicians is the common rather that not - Oliver North told Al Gore in 1987 that one of the men he feared the most was Osama bin Laden. Clinton insisted Isreal let prisoners go even those who had blood on their hands. Wasn't that special, one of them Muhammed Atta flew a plane into tower one and a thank you. What a mess. So of makes you wonder if Tom Clancy's Executive order would be a good thing. I wonder if there should be limits on Congress like we have in the Presidency. What do you all think?

Have you noticed that once an organization starts having $$$ coming in there core issues go out the window and they tend to get ridiculous. Look at enviornmental groups. When Earth First protested on Mt Graham against the telescope, they were beyond rude, didn't have the facts and it took two weeks to clean up there litter on the mountain. Not to mention the damage to trees, land etc....

Scoutdad1996

One of the yuckiest lessons youth have to learn is that A dults are not always right. Sometimes they need to speak up and sometimes they nod their heads outwardly and roll eyes inwardly. My eldest learned that lesson about the same time - tell him to not let the old dogs get him down. If he was proud of his efforts that is what matters most. My eldest now has this look - it is not rude but you just know he is thinking "so are you going to stick with that idiotic statement or back peddle". His style to wait patiently. And it works well for him. Some people just can't say good job no matter what - they don't understand the concept of encouragement.

OMG that is terrific. Must be doing something right.

Reason I asked were are in the Gulf coast area. We are sea kayakers - hurricanes have messed with that a bit. It would be awesome for this group I am working with to meet/see Sea Scouts. I thought this would be a huge sea scout area and have been really surprised that it is not. It seems your family either sails or not here. Not being a sailor, i have been looking for that qualified person to help give exposure to scouts.

Church halls, gyms are about the best. The most fun and in expensive Blue and Gold we have gone to was - camo tarps on the floor, native american tacos and the dens had all made Native American shelters -- long house, wiki up, hogon, tepee and pueblo out of refrid. boxes and other assorted items. They had it set up like a Pow Wow with a center fire. Fire was made out of logs light bulb and colored gels.

My wife is an ARC instructer Trainer for Water Safety (swimming) and lifeguards. She has taught lots of kids and adults like yours. She actually amazes me. When I asked her the key to helping those who are really afraid of the water, she said "a very very good instructer, who is not in a hurry. Learning should be in a game format. Start where he is comfortable and move slowly." She also said you are welcome to private message us and she would be happy to help you and your wife with a plan to get him on his way and more.

Buffalo Skipper -

I am on it or rather the horses have left the barn and I am hanging on - it is actually a wonderful site.

Say if you are on the Gulf coast any good sea kayaking? And does Skipper mean you have Sea Scouts?

2eagles

Unfortunately, Scouts run into the "I'm an adult you're a kid" therefore I know more nanana attitude with adults, within the troop.

However, being one who is currently hanging on to the tiger's tale in what you could describe as a mutiny -- boys want to start crew (oh, I found out that they brought up a venture patrol with SM but were told that would just take them away from the younger scouts so no.

Back to the tiger in full run -- 30 emails, lost track of # text messages -- in need of snorkle for a breath -- STOSH if the light comes on HOLD ON. It is wonderful and scary to see boys I have know since cubs evolve. Just doing the have you? type list they said yep, yep, yep, here are minutes and other info. My mouth is still open. Now they are talking about a back trip to Cloud Peak as a big trip. Cloud Peak! So glad they picked one of the hardest treks - maybe they can just bury me there. I have moved to the hall of irrevelency ahhh to the hall of just enjoy.

Eagledad

Oh Wow -- there is this HUGE division in the troop (didn't realize it was this bad) There are the New 1st(been to one summer camp) year scout parents who are intense helicopter parents and the others. Just sat there and listened. I think my wife and I were the only ones listening. Neither side was listening to the other. Hover parents want to direct and control everything -- and they now occupy most of the committee positions. The two positions held by older scout parents are bidding there time: one is planning to go to another troop at re-charter and the other is thinking seriously of the same thing -- but is considering hanging in til his son is 14.

Unfortunately, the SM is not stepping up or rather he prefers the control aspect. It is hard the SM is/was a friend of ours - he has his own agenda and that is it. He asked us for input after the meeting then negated everything we said with the I am on the Woodbage staff so I know it all. I must be getting old -- I thought that type of ego stuff went away went you passed your 30's.

I am now more convinced the troop has to run this cycle - you can't change closed minds.

On the positive, the boys who want the crew text message me (i am learning this is the way to communicate with teens) and want to meet again tonight.

This has been different. It all the sharing of the joy both my wife and I have done this is a new one.

Thanks to you all

This is what has transpired during the boy lead meeting on option (I printed all comments on the thread and let the boys read them)

Out of the mouths -- Adults pain in tail but can't get rid of

This is where they are -- They wanted me to let you know this not what they would like to have happen but "you can't fix stupid"

They would like to start a venture crew. They did not see how a venture patrol would work at all do to current issues. Because they believe in the program they are discussing the possiblity of each one also joining different troops as older scout support (the nice thing is they are already welcomed at many troops).

They do not want the Venture Crew to be in competetion with troops but to be an extension (venture patrol available to all troops)(something they are talking about for bylaws) this way any member joining would understand this as a district wide option but not at expense of troops

They believe this is viable because there are very few Venture Crews in area - recruitment would be directed more at those scouts who have gotten so busy making tons of troop meeting is difficult but still want to find a balance of scouting -- (and their term) -- grade demand command appearance ie sports,music etc.

This was only the first meeting so -- they have some more thinking to do.

My observations;

The Boy who had served as patrol leader 2 years, aspl 2 years -then said don't call me I will call you on leadership- stepped up when asked for Crew President

The boy who was known for doing the least stepped up for VP Activities - his emails have already started flying

The boy who hates admin. duties but has a talent stepped up (because it was good for the group)

The next discussion was on how they could contact SM in area to see what needs they may have -- skills, merit badge (all of them are ARC youth leaders, lifeguards (full course)

They are also working on how to cover a leadership gap -- viable question with most of them soph. and juniors.

I was then asked what the procedure was for starting the Venture Crew and how could they help.

It is hard to believe these fine young men were once the 11yr old boys who stuggled to plan campouts. The program works.

After thoughtfully reading all of your input - the old guy faction has decided - some wars can do more damage than repair -- maybe if we had been contacted much sooner we could have directed the unit comm. in for some storming maybe

What is best for the boys: A new troop would (in our small district) create a negative and since some parents haven't called me -- some must be happy. There are maybe 3 crews in 100 mile radius so their is a need. Plus - well it is about the boys

Thanks again

Barry your correct the adult team has been broken and chased off -- I agree with you on when adults get involved

The Committee chair disagreed and tried to talk to scoutmaster and was removed (or made completely miserable so left) The Charter Rep. has been gone with work and is one of the parents and boys who want a Venture Crew. He is at the point of let it die a natural death -- or may yank charter (I would hate that to happen) There are a group of 6 (helicopter) parents the SM has handling committee positions. They are untrained. You are correct in the scoutmaster doesn't have the power to do that -- however, the SM waved his Woodbadge staff status and maded life so difficult for the CC and son they are leaving the troop.

As you said Adults can muck it up -- the sad thing is they are clueless and unwilling to hear any other viewpoints

Guys

Is it a bad thing to just walk away and work with the boys who have come to us in Venturing?

AED worked - order new pads

AED worked - order new pads

Beavah

To clarify: I believed this was just a storming momement - it was not until the phone calls started rolling in that I was aware of the miriad of issues.

I did step away - haven't been active unless asked for about 2 years. I have passed a few positions on and am very aware of the looking over the shoulder issue - so I tread carefully. I Have backed and supported (by actions and words) the SM from the get go. I didn't have a problem with the SM until my phone started ringing off the hook 3 months ago - directed the unit comish. to the parents and boys.

I have complimented, encouraged etc on all the contributions the current SM has made -- in fact, those talents were part of the reason I recomended him. And it was where the troop needed to grow. I have encouraged the older boys to give it time -- Stressed loyalty to troop, talk to adults, talk with SM, step up to plate -- now two years later they are coming to me and saying we tried - this is what we did, it isn't better but worse.

Ventures is Brand new at the request of older youth in troop - they do not want to have venture patrol because of the adult leadership

The problem is two fold - 1. We are being called by (8 parents/and scouts) about the change in the troop structure from boy to adult -- ie lack of program, boys unhappy (we have lost 3 to other troops), scoutmaster not listening, loss of the mover and shakers (6 very active couples) of the committee due to scoutmaster.

The reason we are being called is because we are founders, the 1st Scoutmaster and Asst. Scoutmaster and we ran a boy lead troop. Therefore the assumption is we can fix it --

2. Is it our problem anymore or rather what is the right thing to do - the commissioner has all but thrown up his hands

The Venture issue is fairly new (which was not intended as a cog in the wheel)but may cause one -- We now (in the last 5 days) are starting a crew at the request of a Charter Organization and 6 boys.

This has not been a rapid change (the troop situation) but a slow one -- sort of like water dripping on a rock

To answer some of Eagledads questions:

These events have not had a direct impact on our sons, they have tried to work around issues -- and worked the program where they could

No, we are not the ones who saw the problem as one for the whole troop-- we knew our boys were frustrated with troop situation but they were also active with other scouts and troops

This was suppose to be a special meeting, however, due to the Scoutmaster shuffling committee positions and removing anyone who does not just fall into to his line, it is a regular meeting.

Issues parents brought up

Little to no outdoor program other than council events or camps

Favoritism in Scouts for POR's

Dual requirements: SM son and ASM sons one set/ others another with more hoops

No adult leadership presence -- bullying issues (SM son is one)

Tried to get on agenda - no communciation returned -

well just found out my position as life to eagle advisor was moved to someone else

Personal feeling at most is just walk away but conflicted as to whether this is the right thing to do

Fun high adventure: Arapaho, Roosevelt, Marron Bells are great area for hiking/backpacking and camping.

We are founders and former Scoutmaster and Asst. Scoutmaster

Total of 24 scouts in Troop

6 older Scouts want to venture, 3 reasons: one. they want to camp and be outdoors plus explore high adven. opportunities two. They want to get back to boy lead (they believe {and it has been proved over and over} that the current adult leadership will not listen to them. three. They feel the new leadership goes against scout values

Not sure I understand the Venture is an issue question

The committee agenda is classic out of business school format -- the content at committee will be most likely weak

Finally, the current Alpha is Scoutmaster (this is only because he has not be challanged) - (did try talking privately - he doesn't get it) We don't believe a battle would accomplish much except division due to past history

There is a mission with goals that has been in the parent handbook -- however it has been ignored by the current leadership (most of the ignoring has been subversive and not up front) This is why it has quietly cummulated to a mess

This is a long story so for brevity sake I will list major points --

Group of 5 adults started a Troop with definitive mission: Boy Lead, Best for Boys, Family allowed but in its own patrol (they learn skills too and camp away from boys), working with boys who have sports, band ect.., Treating the boys like young men.

It was at times very chaotic as it will be will 11 yr old boys learning to lead - our committee wasn't strong because of our small size but they did work their tails off. We Made sure we provided program.

Now there is an unbelievable amount of in fighting in the troop (by adults) -- all of the original founding adults and youth (2 are Eagles, 1 is finishing his Eagle, 2 are putting projects together)have essentially been run off.

The current Scoutmaster, whose talent was administrative, (this is why the change in leadership to grow committee and move to next step) appears to be running the program for his boys only and is stretched with several other duties in Scouting. WB staff but doesn't really get it, well, he gets the MBA mentality.

We have been contacted by several boys who want to start a Venture Crew and want us to function as advisors. Plus, contacted by parents of boys who are 1 year out of being 14 about a Venture Crew.

There is a committee meeting tonight -- any suggestions on how to handle this mess.

Oh, we are in process of starting a venture crew (it is about the boys).

Really, at wits end - adults and their agendas drive me crazy.

We thank the chartered organization with a pancake breakfast, user, and have readers.