johnponz

BP, I agree with your sentiment. However in this case a question was asked about wearing the sash properly. Where else are we to get the correct answer but by using the available resources that BSA provides? It is clear by these resources that wearing the sash on the belt is not proper. Question asked and answered. If someone chooses to wear the sash on the belt, it is not the end of the world, and more than likely I would not personally confront them as I have more important things to do. However when asked the question, if it is improper to wear the sash on the belt, the answe

BadenP, Your post is very sad and undeserving of a response.

On the way to work I was thinking about the comment that I must not have too much fun and that I was hard on myself because I like to drive the speed limit, and in general follow the rules. Actually looking around at other drivers this AM, I seemed to be having more fun. They all had rather tense looks on their face, and many of them were probably already working as they were on their cell phones. Many of them were driving very fast only to have me catch up at the stop light. The other drivers really did not appear to be having that much "fun" just because they were speeding and on their c

I am going to suprise some people, but I actually like the idea of a homemade cord. Just try to keep it as close in style and color to the official item. Sometimes a homemade item like this will mean more to a Scout than the store bought one. Maybe the troop could buy the supplies and the Scouts could make their own cords similiar to the way some troops make their own neckerchief woggles.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

double post(This message has been edited by johnponz)

Actually I have lots of fun, and enjoy Scouting a lot. I do not go around telling other people that something on their uniform is incorrect, but I wear mine properly hoping that the good example will catch on. You can have fun without breaking the rules though. Hard on myself, maybe, but I like to challenge myself, and try to provide the best service that I can. To each their own is really my motto. However, I will get the right answer to questions if I am asked and do have a matter of fact style when it comes to answering them. My fun really is oin ther journey. I like to slow down

Not that it really matters, but I do not break the speed limit often. I decided a long time ago that the best way to avoid getting any tickets was to not break the limit. I also STOP at stop signs where others seem to roll through. I do not have a stack of traffic tickets as was stated that we ALL must have (I do not remember the last time I got a ticket but it was years ago). Again speeding and knots are apples and oranges and really should not be used in any discussion regarding one or the other. The recognition awards are just that recognition from the District, Council, Area, Regi

There is really no hard feelings on my part. I am just taking part in a discussion. As far as getting rid of adult knots, I would be for that with regard to the "training knots." However, the adult recognition awards such as District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, Silver Antelope, etc. deserve some sort of uniform insignia (in my opinion), and of course Eagle and AOL deserve some sort of recognition on the uniform (again in my opinion). I would 100% agree with disposing of the training awards (if it were my call-which it is not). However, let's keep the recognition type of ins

The answer here is simple. A question was asked and answered 7 pages ago. This is not a case of a Scouter pointing out that another Scouter is improperly wearing the uniform. Someone asked if it is proper. When such a question is asked, what is the proper reference? The insignia guide of course. This is a simple question with a simple answer. The guide clearly says do not wear the sash on the belt. If you choose to do so fine, but it is not proper. End of story. A silly picture of some politician wearing the Arrow pointing down does not change the guide, and it is silly to point out

Another logical fallacy this one is called apples and oranges. Speed limits and knots are 2 different things. I will agree if a leader has attended 3 meetings instead of 4 and has a legitimate reason, this may call for an exception and I have no problem with that. That is way different in giving out a knot when someone attended 0 roundtables when a certain number is required. It is not about being a tin god or any of those other things. It is about building character which is important and teaching the Scouts to do things the right way. As you say knots are not that important.

What one person thinks of another does not really stregthen an argument. I am sure West did not like Seton very much either.

My point was that there are many who like to quote BP, but it took more people than just BP to start the Scouting movement. West was very importasnt in making the BSA what it is today. His organizational skills are really what shaped the US movement, and Scouting as an organized organization in the US probably would not exsist without his executive skills. His contributions were very important to the movement. The bottom line with the knot issue is that adults should demonstrate good character and not wear knots that they did not earn, and should try to follow the rules and wear the un

One of my favorite uniform quotes comes from one of US Scouting's fonders and our 1st Chief Scout Executive James West, "We are anxious to have the co-operation of every Scout and Scout Official in making effective the regulations covering the Official Uniform, Insignia and Badges. To tolerate a conscious disregard for requirements, even in simple matters, breeds disrespect for law and order. When I have found boys wearing the neckerchief under instead of over the shirt collar, it developed that invariably the Scouts, and indeed their own Scoutmaster, did not understand the correct way of wear

One of the purposes you mention are "the ideals." Included in these ideals is the Scout Law including Trustworthy and Obedient. Are you really setting a good example to the youth by wearing awards you did not earn? What are you teaching? The message is it is ok to cut corners if it is fun. You are forgetting the purpose and only concentrating on the fun.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

The politician is obviously not in a proper uniform. How does a picture of someone so obviously out of uniform bolster your position. That is just silly.

Wow did this thread go off topic. The topic was wearing the OA sash properly and we ended up talking about shoulder loops.

I go back to my point. Why is SP asking a bunch of people on a furum what he should do? He should be asking his DC or ADC.

Where is the ADC or DC in this? SP did you ask them if they thought this was a good idea before agreeing to it? This is definitely a question where their involvement is called for. You could have easily told the CC that you would be glad to do this, but the DC did not think it was a good idea. That would have taken any pressure you felt off of you. This is what bosses ar for in the real world and in the BSA. (This message has been edited by johnponz)

This not knowing the rules is a red herring argument. I already posted the link to the "Official Order of the Arrow Website" that clearly defines the rules.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

BadenP You are one of the most unscoutlike people I have run across on this forum. I could care less that you used to be a DE which you like to throw around a lot on these forums, and I do not care about your name dropping either (i.e., I used to work for the CSE). Your personal attacks are not necessary or appreciated. You can disagree with someone without being disagreeable. By the way what does the OA stand for if it does not stand for humble cheerful service done with your fellow Arrowmen? If it matters, I am a district level Scouter that is well respected within the district.

Sorry, the practice of wearing the sash on the belt was not allowed in the '80s either. There are always a few rogue lodges that continue to practice "traditions" that are not allowed under the rules. I know that it was not allowed because I attended the National Leadership Seminar in 1981, and it was specifically mentioned that the sash is only allowed to be worn over the right should and is not allowed on the belt. Guess what, the same rules regarding when to wear the sash was also in effect. It was to be worn only when providing service as an arrowman or at OA events. Now for opi

Shortridge-Sorry sometimes the sense of sarcasm is lost in the "virtual world."

Shortridge, This is the exact reason that adults should not form committees. That kid "who'll just screw it up and then quit or graduate" is in charge at the OA function, and not the adults. It is up to the "kid" to delegate the tasks and get it done and the adults should serve as advisers only. That is the program. We (as adults) are here to develop the kid's leadership skills so in the future he does not "screw it up." I enjoyed being in charge when I was in the OA as a youth (many years ago), but being in charge is not my role as an adult.

This committee is specifically disallowed as all Committee Chairmen must be youth members of the OA.

Eagle92 is closer to the policy as written by the BSA. However, "Assistants" shopuld be included in the general term "Unit Leader" per the following: The Commissioner Administration of Unit Service Publication http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Commissioners/Manuals/34128.aspx Here on page 3 it states, "In Cub Scouting, the unit leader is the Cubmaster, who shares the responsibility with den leaders; in Boy Scouting, it is the Scoutmaster and assistants. In Venturing, it is the Advisor and associates." So you can see in the Commissioner context the Unit Leader position re