JerseyScout

One must be careful that one does not add to the requirements. After all this is not governmental grant writing here, it's a young man doing his best to get an opportunity to show his leadership abilities. 

Oh, how I wish our District Advancement Committee had this mindset.  They make the Scouts jump through all sorts of hoops, threaten to fail them for all sorts of nonsense, and sometimes do fail them for the silliest of things (my favorite - one Scouts didn't say exactly where hammers were coming from.  Because it's so hard to get hammers.  They made him come back with letters from people documenting that they'd lend him hammers).  One of our moms, who's son went through the process, said her son's write up for his proposal was harder and more complicated than her grant requests, and she's a professor at an Ivy League college.  

We give the Scouts way more guidance than I'd like, making sure all sorts of exact wording is in each proposal, and our Scouts still get themselves in trouble all the time.  

I'd never had made Eagle Scout if I had to do what my Scouts today have to.  Not the leadership end, the going through red tape and navigating made up rules.

Late to the show, but I've been happy with my REI Done 2 man (2 man meaning two without gear). It's $100, weighs 5 pounds (split it with a buddy), and if you have a membership you get 10% back at the end of the year anyway. Bought it as a cheap "not sure I'm going to keep doing this" option, ended up using it for over 300 miles of backpacking and counting (including 13 nights with a buddy in Wyoming). If you want to carry it by yourself and have room, it's not completely awful (although definitely not ultralight either).

http://www.rei.com/product/731378/rei-camp-dome-2-tent

Our old council that disbanded just over a decade ago went back to 1921. Our troop goes back not nearly that far, only to 1965, still a respectable 45 year run.

Hey Shortridge,

Here's where I pulled that idea from on Youth Protection Policies - http://www.scouting.org/training/youthprotection.aspx :

"Cameras, imaging, and digital devices. While most campers and leaders use cameras and other imaging devices responsibly, it has become very easy to invade the privacy of individuals. It is inappropriate to use any device capable of recording or transmitting visual images in shower houses, restrooms, or other areas where privacy is expected by participants."

Between bathrooms and tents (where kids change) are what I refer to as "certain situations", and those situations occur every overnight trip unless every kid has an iron bladder and wears the same clothes an entire weekend. The majority of cell phones fall under "cameras, imaging, and digital devices", especially as Scouts can use those phones to send pictures out or upload them to facebook. Its not a broad policy (its very tailered), but its a policy neverthless.

Further along, there are obvious concerns that national is putting out there...

"A key ingredient for a safe and healthy Scouting experience is the respect for privacy. Advances in technology are enabling new forms of social interaction that extend beyond the appropriate use of cameras or recording devices (see Barriers to Abuse Within Scouting). Sending sexually explicit photographs or videos electronically or sexting by cell phones is a form of texting being practiced primarily by young adults and children as young as middle-school age. Sexting is neither safe, nor private, nor an approved form of communication and can lead to severe legal consequences for the sender and the receiver. Although most campers and leaders use digital devices responsibly, educating them about the appropriate use of cell phones and cameras would be a good safety and privacy measure."

Training at district-level had mentioned that "severe legal consequences" can include charges of taking and trafficing child porn, even if the person taking the picture is under 18.

As for the PLC, they are on board with this. They also have the ability to declare cell phones as "necessary equipment" for trips where they feel they are necessary, in which case they will decide who will be carrying them and at what times. However, in this rare instance (as I'm a firm believer in boy-led), the adults made the call on the policy for safety and legal reasons. The boys are responsible for each other and the program, but myself and the other adults are ultimately responsible for each of the boy's safety on trips.

Is there any National BSA policy banning the use of cell phones for youth members? Youth Protection bans the use of camera phones in certain situations as inapropriate pictures can be texted or uploaded to the Internet, but that's all I've found (and it may be it).

Our Troop Committee unanimously passed a ban at the last Leader's Meeting to deal with growing safety concerns within the troop related to cell phone use on trips the past year (so its a done deal), I'm just gearing up for the backlash. It should be fun!

We dole out badges at our weekly meetings (usually you wait two weeks or so for your badge to make it back from council).

We have one Court of Honor each year, in December, to coincide with the troop's birthday. Quick recongniton of all adult volunteers (read names, everyone stands up, everyone claps, move on). Quick "state of the troop" speech on numbers on trips, advancements, etc. Together these take about five minutes, including bad jokes.

We then recognition of each Scout for their achievements the previous year. If we're lucky, they don't knock any candle stands over.

This is followed by the Scouts giving a brief (15 minute) slide show, which they usually find the most ridiculous pictures possible for.

Then we give our two awards- one to the Scout who attended most activities and one to the Scout who best shows Scout spirit as exemplified by a former Scout who died shortly after making Eagle (the award is named for him).

Then on to desert and storytelling for the rest of the evening. The whole thing, set up to cleanup, takes about two hours.

In years we have Eagle Scouts (which is all years, last year we didn't have at least one was 1991), we allow the parents to schedule the ceremony. They usually band together and have one ceremony in May or June for all the boys.

It depends what you'er comfortable with. I like to have about $2000 in the acounts at any given time. We've gone as low as $1500 and, at one point years ago, were at almost $10,000 (which was too much). Do what you need to do.

I could never turn a kid away, especially as our troop gets half of our kids from word of mouth. Word-of-mouth kids are obviously interested in being with their friends more than being in Scouts as a whole. Our troop has more than doubled in size in two years to about 35 kids (14 to 20 on each trip, depending which sports season it is). 35 kids is the size of a large class of 5th graders, and is very managable for me, I am still well within my comfort zone.

Ten years ago, this troop had over 100 kids in it with a very similar program to the one in place now. I remember having 50 to 60 kids on camping trips. I figure that we'll cross that bridge when (and if) we get to it.

On camping days, I try to wolf down my lunch and spend the balance of my lunch time taking a nap. I then suck on Reese's Pieces while driving.

Don't worry about it. To be honest, to be good at Scouts is less about having been in Scouts and more about being good with kids. If you're good with kids, you can learn the rest out of manuals, at training sessions, or from the people around you.

For patrol cooking, I swear by the simple, straighforward two burner Coleman stoves. I've taken mine cross country through deserts and high mountaints, used it in 102 degrees (that's nighttime Death Valley for ya) and in 6 degrees (our Klondike Derby last year) and never, ever had a problem. We have troop ones that have to be twenty years old and are still kicking.

For backpacking, I have a pocket rocket that I like just fine. The coldest weather I've used it in is about 40 degrees (in a rainstorm) and it worked lovely, but I can't vouch for it below freezing because I've never had to try it.

At the end of a hard day, I don't need the joke, just a big "1-7". hahaha! hahahahahaha! haha! Stupid Cowboys.

Fly Eagles fly...

Eagle92, you are my favorite person ever at the moment. I just sent an e-mail to the proper fellow over at district.

"Every visitor to troop meeting was openly welcomed and immediately included in the action (boy action - not adults - and probably the most important by a lot"

This is absolutely, positively key (and entirely up to the boys in the troop). If the visitors feel immediately welcome, they'll almost always stay.

Other than that, good luck, I feel your pain. My own troop was tetering toward a final collapse two years ago (we were down to about 12 active Scouts, almost none of them younger ones) due to poor management and adults suffocating the kids, made all the worse by the Eagle mill the next town over (with 70 kids) and the other troop in town who were taking everyone from our recruitment area (we had only one new kid recruited in three years). The adult-run (not even adult led, flat out adult run) Eagle mill gets kids and keeps about half of them, but is boring as anything (very little camping). The other troop in town looked more organized, so would pull in many of the Weblos, only to have them drop out within six months.

My buddy and I (both former troop members in our early 20s) kicked the suffocating adults to the curb, threw control back to the kids, encouraged more adventure, and threw out those ridiculous "Scout Zone" recruitment flyers (replaced with one our kids made up). After two years, we're up to 32 kids despite ten age outs over that period. The troop was very lucky, the kids really took control of their troop and, as stated above, made every new kid feel welcome right off the bat, do the kids who were cajoled into checking us out almost all stuck around.

Take that Eagle mill (still staying strong with 60+ kids but we handed them their butts at the last Klondike) and other town troop (fighting for survival with six kids).

I can see and 110% get behind the idea that every leader should have Youth Protection training.

I didn't mind taking the 700 online courses. In fact, I took every one of them, required and unrequired, just to make sure I had the best idea of how the program is supposed to run top to bottom.

I am fully First Aid and CPR certified, and get renewed every two years through the American Heart Association for work.

I enjoyed my one day Scoutmaster 1,2, and 3 course, I argued endlessly with the other people taking the course how their troops were "adult led" (the instructor found this funny and kept backing me up).

I even took the merit badge councilor class (which was downright silly, half the training was how a blue card worked), just to set a good example for the rest of my troop leadership.

But the idea of IOLS (or ITOLS as its known around here) makes me insane. Learn tenderfoot to first class skills in a weekend? I'm only ten years removed from Eagle Scout (I was only four years removed when I came back to Scouting), who has never "left" camping or high adventure. Between being a Scout, being a leader, and being a guy who camps in his free time, I have probably has over 1000 nights of camping under my belt. I've been Scoutmaster for a full year and de-facto Scoutmaster for the two years before that, so I've been "in charge" for almost 50 trips. My council does not offer an "opt-out" option. I dedicate all or part of 30+ weekends a year for Scouts (without having a kid in the program), I have not been able to bring myself to waste a weekend to learn how to tie knots, that you are supposed to hike down the left side of the road, and to learn how to properly set up a campsite.

I both miss and don't miss the old canvas wall tents. When I was a Scout, those were the tents that the troop owned. They were awesome once you got them up. The downside was only the new 11 year olds ever used them, and those things weighed aproximately 14 tons each. Also, the poles hurt when they fell on you. One of our "this is MY troop" adults decided on his own to chuck them all out about seven years ago, along with the old army surplus "teepee" tent that seven or eight of the oldest kids used to cram into every trip (best. tent. ever.). I have never forgiven him.

Now days my Scouts use three types of tents:

a) The family style dome tent, either Ozark Mountain (aka: Wal-Mart brand) or whatever Coleman was on sale at Dick's Sporting Goods. These are generally massive and you can cram many, many Scouts into them, so they and twenty-seven of their closest friends can fit in one tent (more like 4 to 6 scouts per tent). The Ozark Mountain ones are junk and usually are destroyed within a year. The Colemans aren't bad, although the larger ones can be confusing the first few times they are set up. Adults can also get hours of entertainment trying to watch 11 year olds figure out how to reach up high enough to get the rainfly over their tent (answer: wait for the senior patrol leader to take pity on you).

b) The small one or two person backpacking tents, with the most popular model now being the REI two doored, two man, stand-alone tent. I purchased one of these myself ($80, hooray for a coupon) back in August, and I absolutely love it. Unlike every other backpacking tent I've ever used, its very easy to set up (three poles only, set up exactly like a regular dome tent), very light, and fits in two people with "essential" gear (more or less a flashlight and a change of clothes). Also, like a dome tent, it stands up freely without needing twelve stakes to hold it up, something I will love the first time I'm trying to pitch it anywhere on the AT. Two doors also allow for you to get up in the middle of the night to piss without disturbing your tenting buddy.

c) Led by our fearless senior patrol leader, there are the handful of my older boys who have decided after doing Wilderness Survival merit badge that they hate tents, and have started to sleep under tarps that they pitch (after deciding that it was too much work to build shelters from sticks and leaves every trip). After some intial problems (mostly getting wet), they are getting really good at figuring out how to rig them up. One of the second year scouts has begun to try to copy them. I get the feeling that in a years time I have have a field full of Scouts sleeping under tarps.

Wear what you want to wear. My one uniform has exactly one knot - my youth religious award. I have other knots that I've earned (chief among them Eagle), so why do I wear just one? Its the only one I wore as a youth member, so I never bothered to put any others on. Heck, as Scoutmaster, I'm still wearing the same uniform shirt I wore when I became a Weblos I twenty years ago! I did put the Scoutmaster patch on though, I figured that one was important.

Fellow came to the last roundtable to pitch religious awards. The youth information about religious awards was useful, and I've already passed it on to several of my Scouts who were interested in earning said awards. Then he took up close to ten minutes going on and on and on about how adults can earn religious knots in certain religions by taking a religious class (for other religions, you need to do some service to the institution through Scouting to earn one). Now I'm a religious fellow and a church goer, but I found the whole premise of adults earning Scout religious awards to be ridiculous. YOU ARE AN ADULT! If you want to be dedicated to your religious institution, awesome! If you want to bring that dedication to Scouts and bring your troop a religious side, awesome! But why in the world would you need to take a class and earn a knot for it?

Knock on trees looking for flying squirrels, that's what my Committee Chair does. I'd think he's crazy, except that he keeps getting them to peek out at him.

Talked to the chapter advisor, he said as long as the Scouts camped out as part of a Boy Scout program for an entire week (not just a weekend, and not a week with the family or with the YMCA or in their backyard either), they are covered. He seemed happy at the potential new members, as our troop hasn't added any OA members in three years, and OA isn't doing well.

SR540Beaver ~ I'm sure Order of the Arrow is a lovely program, it just wasn't for me. Other kids in my troop did it, I played and watched sports and played music with my friends with that time. I had fun with those and with Scouts, no regrets with any of it.

Even though it wasn't for me, I'm happy that at least two of my Scouts are interested in joining OA. There hasn't been interest in a while, maybe these newbies will get in and love it. Maybe they'll become the head honchos over at the lodge and make the lodge more sucessful. Maybe they'll spread our boy-led, patrol system, high adventure plague to other troops in our area. Alright, third one might be a stretch, but it makes me feel better.

Lot's of good advice here. I'll add two bits.

1) COLORED NAIL POLISH works wonders in the color-coding system. Spoons, knives, forks, pots, sierra cups, mugs, little Johnny's patrol members... all work great. Colored eletrical tape/duck tape and colored spray paint also work great for marking things like tents, tarps, etc.

2) Divide, divide, divide. My troop now owns the following gear: big thick rope, two trailers (one for gear, one for canoes), a big shed to put them in, and some odds and ends. Every other piece of gear is the responsibility of a patrol. Each patrol gets a quartermaster to keep the gear in order (aided by the rest of his patrol... its not just his job to clean at the end of trip), and the troop gets a troop quartermaster and an Assistant Senior Patrol Leader to keep on top of/guide the patrol quartermasters, usually playing the "ALRIGHT, WHICH PATROL IS ORANGE? YOUR POT IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD, COME GET IT" game. It's a fun game. They also teach people how to fix broken gear, especially lanterns. Oh how I hate broken lanterns.

Never heard of Journey to Excellence, but we were told to log our hours in at Good Turn for America:

https://scoutnet.scouting.org/gtfa/

1) How many units have an active program that uses those skills continually?

It depends on the skills. It is possible for any Scout unit to use all the skills all the time?

2)How many units have older scouts teaching younger ones?

We have that for almost all of the requirements, save a few where the requirements require than an adult sign off (Scout spirit, that first class one where you talk about your rights with an adult, etc).

3) How many units allow junior leaders, i.e. PLs, Instructors, etc OR those appointed by the SPL and SM to teach skills, i.e. Scout who needs to teach basic first aid skills for First Aid MB, to also sign off on T-2-1 requriements?

In my troop, anyone 1st Class or above can sign off for any T-2-1 rank requirement. At their 1st Class Scoutmaster conference, I go through the signing process (don't make it easier or harder, a Scout is trustworthy, all that good stuff).

Apart from the questions, I had a Surveying instructor (land surveying) in high school that made every one of our tests open book for both years of the program, including the midterms and finals. His reasoning was that a) if you didn't study, the textbook wasn't going to help you much over the span of an entire test and b) if you are a professional surveying, you can always open up a book and look something up if you are unsure or forget it. He believed the skill of knowing where to look to find information was just as important as the skill itself.

So will Scouts forget some of their skills? Absolutely. But when a younger Scout approaches them to help with a requirement, they can go into their books to refresh or reteach themselves. They can then either quiz or teach the younger Scout. This way BOTH Scouts are learning, or at the very least, refreshing their skills.

After years of getting by on my own Scouting experience, advice from my old Scoutmaster, common sense, and asking questions on this board, my troop is no longer in danger of collapsing. Therefore, I decided to buy and read the Scoutmaster handbook to try to fill in gaps in my knowledge, as well as to see other (and official) ways of doing things. After all, you can't change the rules until you know them, right?

Anyway, I've been reading up on patrol method, and I love the idea of every single patrol member having a specific job, as one thing I've noticed is that our patrol leaders tend to dish out jobs on the spot. This works well for the short term, but it doesn't play well to the idea of a patrol as a team where every member is contributing to the good of the unit.

As for positions, the book suggests the following: Patrol Leader, Assistant Patrol Leader, Patrol Scribe, Patrol Quartermaster, Patrol Grubmaster, and Patrol Cheermaster, which sounds a little too much like Patrol Cheerleader. Checking older literature (at the Scout dump... awesome site), I also saw First Aid-master who was in charge of upkeeping the patrol's first aid kit. Does anyone have other ideas for patrol positions, either from "the old days" or that they see today?

I'm going to have the patrol leaders brainstorm jobs at the next Patrol Leaders Council. I purchased patrol logs for them when I got the Scoutmaster's handbook, so I give those to them at the same meeting.

I fall into the adventure category in this argument. However, I personally feel that Venture Crew is the OPPOSITE of what Scouts needs. Why should a Scout have to wait three years before he can have adventures?

My troop has been growing in the last three years after almost dying a horrible death due to being adult-led (adults planned and did everything, more adults than kids on trips, hovering over the Scouts at all times). Why? Because the troop pitches adventure to lure kids in, then they get adventure, right off the bat. Summer trip to camp where you sit in classrooms and earn badges? I think not. Last summer, the kids planned a trip 500 miles away to Maine where they did an awesome 15 mile hike, went night kayaking until two in the morning, built and slept in shelters, went fishing, and mountain biked a fifteen mile trail where four of them ended up pretty scratched up from their bikes going out from under them (complete with proud after-pictures of their scrapes, as bandaged up by the Scouts themselves). Its important to note that the Scouts planned these adventures (all of the Scouts, not just the PLC), the PLC made arrangements for them and carried them out, and then the kids pushed each other to do them. Every kid, from the 17 year olds to the Scout on his second trip ever managed to get through all these activities (they were allowed to stay back with the adults who couldn't handle the activities, they just didn't).

20 1/2 mile bike ride last April? Nailed, including by the 12 year old whose bike skidded out at mile two, who had to be patched up with about eight guaze pads, and who refused to get picked up. 15 mile canoe trip? Nailed, with adults in canoes only with other adults, and team 11-year-old (they insisted they wanted to be together) spending twenty minutes unwedging themselves from a tree. After each of these crazy trips, the kids go to school, brag about what they did, and another one or two new guys show up to Scouts to see what the fuss is about. Meanwhile, many troops in our district are just barely hanging on. We were there not too long ago, from Roundtable I know that many of their problems are the same ones that we had.

Best of all is that the older Scouts, who were a fairly sorry looking lot three years ago, are now confidently planning treks of their own... a 50 mile backpacking trip for December and a 75 mile bike ride for next September. For the most part, they bought into the responsibility of taking care of their patrols and taking care of planning and executing trips.

I don't think the world has changed, or that youth have changed, nearly as much as popular culture claims it has. Outdoors and adventure still have the ability to draw people in. No matter how advanced video games become, kids are still drawn to play with fire for hours on end. No matter how many practices a week are held for the local intermural soccer game, the kids are going to cut out to go shoot guns. No matter how jaded a kid may be, white water rafting still sounds like an awesome time.

Paraphrasing what Badin-Powell said, draw the boys in with camping, the outdoors, and adventure, then you can hit them with the rest of the program.

Awesome, thanks guys