jamist649

Wow...I love my boys, but...just...WOW.

I'm (CM) looking for a good service project for the Pack to do between now and our Blue and Gold in February. Last year, we had a really good project fall in our laps. We collected and gave teddy bears to the local State Highway Patrol to give to children at traffic accidents. Well, the goal was to collect 100 to go along with the 100th anniversary of Scouting...well, we collected 234. Needless to say, there really isn't a need for more teddy bears. I'd like to do something similar, but I'm kind of at a loss. Last year, we let the Den that collected the most throw a pie at me...which is why we collected 234% of goal...I think. LOL I like the idea of friendly competition and I'd like to continue this trend. I've considered canned goods, but Scouting for Food is just before our Blue/Gold, so I think it may be too soon. I've thought about coats, but we'll be heading into spring, so I don't know how much sense that makes. Any other ideas?

Can anyone give me a quick rundown of the religious emblem program and how to aquire them? I have one den that is interested and I want to know how to handle it.

We don't have a website, but we have a blog (cubscoutpack29.blogspot.com). It doesn't "do" alot but I can post updates, schedules, pictures, etc. I can also tell everybody to "check the blog" instead of trying to run through details of every event we have coming up. You can link it to facebook, which is nice, and you can also allow comments. It works for us...and it's free. www.blogger.com

I am beginning my second season as CM of a relatively large (for our area) Pack. A little background: Pack is one of the oldest in the area (over 60 years) but had dwindled down to 9 Scouts due to the 2 previous CMs ONLY wanting to push their son through and get out of it. I took over as CM (being honest with myself) because nobody else wanted it. I did it because my son loves Scouting and if it's important to him..well it's important to me. Fast forward to now: 45 Scouts, dens at every level, functioning committee, ACM on board, and happy Scouts! All of this is great, but I have one BIG problem. I have 5 dens (one for each rank). I have one SUPERB DL, I have one really good DL who is however really busy and can't give it the time it deserves but tries, then I have 3 who are sort of "ehh" on the whole thing. All three of them tell me they are engaged and ready to help and that it's important that we run a quality program...while at the same time, Den meetings have been sporatic and often on the SAME DAY as the Pack Meeting. I guess this is "ok" but "Hey, meet me an hour before the Pack Meeting for a Den meeting" isn't my interpretation of a "quality" program. I never hear from them and-although we're just getting started-very few of thier boys have earned a single beltloop outside of Pack activities. I just feel like it's all being put on ME to do PACK events to keep THIER boys interested. I plan meticulously for our Pack meetings and events. Very seldom to we just have a Pack Meeting...it's always an event. Sevice projects, Regatta, Displays, etc. Now, I don't expect for everybody to "live" the program like I try to do, but I'm worried that we will lose these Scouts if they are bored to tears in the den NO MATTER what I do on a Pack level. At our last leaders' meeting, I even went so far as to call one out (politely) and tell him that hey "may want to" think about doing X activity with his den becasue they could earn Y and use the skill at upcoming camp! I don't know if he did...but I doubt it. What in the world can I do to motivate these folks?!

This seems to happen every fall when we get back in the swing of things. Your Pack is very fortunate to have someone with Scouting experience as TDL. Most, as has been stated before, are just a bunch of clueless parents and kids (not being "mean", that just what it is). I (CM) have a TDL in my group this year that sounds very similar to you. An Eagle, he has scheduled an active Den program for his group in addition to several "go see its" already. We'll see how this works out. The parents, thus far, have been apprciative of his committment to the group. Now, here's the ugly truth. You will NOT retain them all. You probably would retain more if you did the bare minimum. These days (IMO) parents seem to be more concerned with quantity instead of quality. Simply stated: "Bobby is in Cub Scouts, Soccer, flag football, baseball, basketball, karate, 4-H, Church activities, etc. etc etc....AINT THAT GREAT!?" Whereas "Bobby" and mom/dad would be much better off if they would let him pick one or two activites and actually give them the time and effort they deserve. It's a shame. what you end up with is a tired kid who can't muster up the energy to ENJOY the program and parents who start rolling thier eyes pulling out schedule books every time you schedule a meeting. I wouldn't change my program one bit. Why punish the families that are embracing the program to pacify the slackers? If they can't come to every meeting, tell them to catch up at home. High standards produce high quality Scouts. Good for you for setting the bar high.

I was speaking to our Town Administrator a few weeks back about an unrelated matter when the subject of the Cub Scouts came up. He mentioned that they had gotten a grant to complete come improvements to the local park and boat landing here in town and had a little bit of the money left over. Town officials had tossed around the idea of some picnic tables for the area but weren't sure how to proceed. He asked me about the Cub Scouts fabricating the tables. At first, I thought about tossing him to the local Boy Scout Troop because I thought it may have been a little bit too much of a challenge for our boys, then...I reconsidered. Our ACM took the raw materials that the town bought and fabricated pre-cut "kits" for the boys to assemble and screw together. We labeled everything and had directions printed out. We also held a leaders meeting the night before so that the leaders could get their hands on the materials before the boys rolled in. After a brief pack meeting and safety talk, I let them loose on the kits. Within 90 minutes we had 5 tables. We even let the be the first ones to use them (we had a snack afterwards on the tables). We then loaded them up and took them down to the park. Check out some pics from the project at: cubscoutpack29.blogspot.com

Ok, had to jump back in..as last night was a perfect example of my ACM and I work. Had a leaders/committee meeting at the location where we are doing our carpentry project. I get there 30 minutes early, unload my truck (flags, paperwork, camp forms, signs, etc) he pulls up as soon as I'm done (I'm telling ya, he's got ESP or something). He's got the wood and materials on his truck. We start to unload as the other leaders are arriving. We get done and wait about 15 minutes (small talking) for everyone else to arrive. We have a brief meeting with everybody new rosters, fundraising, money, meetings, etc. and then the leaders break off and go with my ACM while I talk bills, membership, food at camp, etc with the committee. We both finished at the SAME TIME! It was amazing. Before I would have been trying to talk fianances while trying to nail together the project. It was almost poetic. LOL

Our Pack had never had an assistant CM until I (the CM) appointed one about 3 months ago. Let me tell you, he is the answer to a prayer. As far as what the ACM does, it really does depend on what your needs are. I am not as "handy" (i.e. woodworking, campfires, tent repair, etc) as he is, and he is not as comfortable speaking to the boys, parents, etc as I am. He has taken on a "behind the scenes" approach to the Pack, which is fine, but he still comes to Roundups/Meetings/Camps in uniform and contributes. Right now, he's in his shop cutting out wood and other material for a Pack carpentry project that we're doing this weekend. I would have never been able to put this together on my own...and keep all my fingers. Aside from being my "behind the scenes" man, he's also our camp chief, outdoors director, and Troop/Pack liason (he has a son in the Troop).

Great! I may steal...uhh, borrow some of your ideas for my meeting this coming weekend. This year has been unique as we have had new Scouts "trickling" in since June. Overall, we've added about 15. So, I've done the "Welcome to the Pack" speech twice now! My only issue with being CM is that I miss the interaction with the boys. It's been said before (and is true) that Scouting takes place in the Den. I kind of miss that..oh well. On the the next Pack Meeting!

If you have just started and you have 14, you may wish to wait a few weeks to see how many you keep. Last year, we started out in my Pack with 10 Tigers and ended up with 6 solid boys. The other 4 never made it past the first or second meeting. If we had split we would have ended up with 2 half empty Dens. With that being said, what I did when I was in this situation (CM needing a TDL) was go down the list of adult partners and call each one. I got a leader on my fifth call. :-) The text of my call went something like this: "Hey, I was wondering if you'd like to take on a leadership role in your son's Den!?" The key is to sound excited LOL. Keep it simple...

Thanks for all the replies. This question seems to come up every year, with my Pack and with just about everybody else's that I know. Being a new Scout can be confusing enough when you have no experience at it, add that to the whole "you've got alot to do to catch up and crossover..." thing and we tend to lose the majority of our new 5th graders every year. Its a shame.

Hey Fish, Yeah, I understand the W2DL not wanting to backtrack. His boys are way ahead of schedule and he has a BIG den to deal with already. Last year, right after I took over as CM, we had a PILE of new W2s sign up and just about all of them dropped due to the fact that they felt like they were "behind" and couldn't catch up. I was just trying to avoid that again. I think I'll explain to them what the situation is and let them use this season as a "ramp up" to joining the Troop. I don't know if I wouldn't have just told them to wait like you said, but then you may never get them into the program, PLUS my DE was all "HEY!!" "Who wants to be a CUB SCOUT!!" Come on in!! LOL

I know this question has been asked before, but I'll ask again. What do we do with brand new Scouts who are in 5th grade? My W2DL has told me (CM) that he does NOT wish to do any backtracking to accomodate these boys but will welcome them into the Den. I'm considering 2 options: #1-Let them join with no intention (unless they are feeling very ambitious) of completing program. Basically "hang out" with Den/Pack, prepare for Boy Scouts. #2-Put them in Webelos I Den. They will be with younger boys, but will get the whole "deal". This will be pending approval from Scout, parent, and WIDL. Not sure about option 2 or if I "can". Anyone have any GOOD experience with new W2s?

Hey Fish, Congrats on the successful roundup! Ours is this coming week so I'm hoping we do well also. I'm going into "season 2" as CM and I've had a blast so far...after a brief "breakdown" last week LOL. My issue now is trying to keep the program "fresh" while still keeping the things that we enjoyed last year. It's so easy to run out of ideas. I don't want to bore my veterans, but I don't want to skimp on my new boys either. Still working on that one. Good luck to you!

This is encouraging! We did spring recruiting starting in May and have had boys trickling in all summer. Whereas last year this time we had no tigers, we now have a den of 7! I just hope it doesn't effect our fall recruiting efforts. It would be neat to have 2 tiger dens that could do friendly competition, etc. Our school sign up nights are 9-21 and 9-28. We'll see!

Thanks Eagle. I don't mind losing the boy to another unit, I just have a problem with the unit he went to. That sounds bad I know...but it's one of those Packs that walk around like they OWN Scouting. They are the biggest unit in the county even though they are the smallest township. They have been invivted to county wide events (one of which that MY pack hosted) multiple times and they NEVER participate with the "unwashed" masses. Kind of like your rich cousins who don't want anything else to do with the family. It's gonna kill me to see their pack numbers on his arm. :-((This message has been edited by jamist649)

Thanks Fish. I feel a little better. But after seeing this 64 year old Pack almost die, I guess I'm just afraid we're always just one breath away from dying again. I guess I need to just accept that you won't retain everybody. I'm just worried about the Den (my son's Den) which is now down to just 3 boys.

Barring any unforseen event that would cause your membership to decline, what is "average" for loss of boys each year? In my first year as CM, I've done alot to not only build our Pack but to try to retain what we've recruited. Well, got a call tonight from one of our Den Leaders that we lost not one but TWO from her Den..which only had 5 boys to begin with. One is "tired" of it and is too involved in other activites. The other (and this is what bothers me) left us for a neigboring unit. Remember, we have WAY too many units in our small county. I know I shouldn't take it personally, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't. What is "normal"? We've lost probably 5 or 6 of our boys since the beginning of last season out of a Pack of about 40 boys (new recruit numbers included from Spring).

I'll have to do some asking and see who does that type of thing in my area. I'll have to ask the home schooled boy that's in my pack. He just signed up the other day, but maybe mom/dad won't mind helping out telling me who I can talk to.

Hey Fish, That's great. I'm looking forward to our first Den Meeting of the new season this Sunday and then our Roundup on Tuesday! Can't wait to see how we do. How did you get the word out to the home-schooled boys? I have ONE in my Pack but the only reason he knew about us was due to the fact that his dad is a pastor at a local church where another one of our boys go. I'd love to put the word out to home school parents! Very little information online for kids in my area.

No one is asking anyone to "train" the Tiger, Wolf, or any other Den Leader. However, in smaller Packs, it does fall often on the senior DLs to help and guide the upcoming dens. "...to help other people" goes for your fellow cubbers too. As to what you can offer: experience, mentors (the older boys), friendship, and a bigger presence. There truly is power in numbers. Refusal to attend meetings, whether you see them as "social" or not, is a sign of dismissiveness and unconcern for the entire unit. As for my Pack, we work together. That means being on the same page and getting together and talking things out. You can't do that on an email or a newsletter.

This type of junk is what destroys some good Packs. It almost destroyed ours. I'll elaborate :-D : Back in '07 my son joined as a Tiger, I "joined" as a Tiger Parent. Being brand new to Scouting we didn't recognize what was going on until several months later and getting more involved in leadership. CM and W2DL were husband/wife, only son (W2) was crossing over and CM and W2DL had ZERO interest in any of the other Dens, however it took me (again) several months to realize this and now it VERY apparent. My son's DL at the time was brand new also (as most Tiger leaders are) and recieved VERY little help from CM or her husband. Wolf DL was experienced but ran "his den" as he saw fit. Didn't want input from other dens, didn't help other dens, didn't ATTEND MEETINGS, and basically ran the den as a seperate unit. Well, talk about a cluster. Tigers were clueless and stumbled through the program without guidance. We had no bears that year (and only 4 new tigers) due to poor recruiting and the leadership wanting only the "cool" kids to join. It's a miracle we made it thru that first year! Anyway, Wolf DL was way "too cool" to attend meetings or other Pack events (sometimes his entire Den would sit out Pack events!) so *SUPRISE* they started a NEW PACK in the same SMALL town! It almost KILLED our Pack and NO ONE thought enough about the parents left behind to call and let us know (I was still a Den parent at the time). We went from about 35-40 Scouts to 9. Well, CM had already moved on and tossed the charter, checkbook (zero balance), and everything else to the (then) WI ADL and told him he could be CM or the Pack could fold...A Pack that was chartered in the mid-1940's. Well, he did the best he could and we stumbled along. Our "Pack" events were basically acheivements out of the "Bear" book (his son's rank at the time) due to the fact that we only had a couple of boys who were NOT bears. Fast forward to graduation of that year. We crossed over ONE Webelos, graduated 6 bears and 3 wolves...that's it. SAD legacy for a 63 year old Pack that used to nubmer in the 60-70 range. Even as still a Den Parent, I recognized that we were dying. I was outraged that ONE leader could do so much damage by pulling out and taking all of her "friends" with her. I told the CM at that time that, if he'd like, I'd recruit and lead a Tiger Den the following season. I told him that if we didn't recruit Tigers that the Pack would die. He told me (NO LIE) that he like to get his boys through and then let it fold. Uhh. HELLO, MY son is a year behind yours..where do we go?! Ok, well the rest is history. I took over as CM 3 months later 9 Scouts 2 leaders to 40 Scouts, 8 leaders, functioning committee and active program in the span of one year. I say all this not to say "look at me!" because it wasn't about me, it was about FINALLY having leadership that worked together, was interested and engaged in PACK activities and helping the Pack grow, and ATTENDED meetings!(This message has been edited by jamist649)

I can see what the original poster is saying. A Pack cannot survive unless all Dens (at least in some way) are working together. How does he keep his boys informed about upcoming PACK events? Are ideas, concerns, etc from his Den parents being passed up to the Pack and Pack Committee? I can understand missing one or two meetings, but to NOT come to any? ...and to NOT explain why? I (CM) would have a serious problem with this. If I take the efffort to organize a meeting, develop an agenda, and work toward "helping the Pack go" the LEAST this leader can do is attend, send a delegate, or explain why.

Thanks ya'll Looking back at my post kind of made me feel a little silly. 40 cubs in a town with 6000 residents and 3 other Packs is pretty good I guess. I do have 2 qualified Den Chiefs from our "brother" unit, the Troop. My son does have a good time and has since his Tiger year (He's a Web I now). The Committee is brand new so I do plan on diversifying thier duties to take some off of me. Yesterday's meeting was just too packed to be efficient. I'll know next time. Thanks for the replies.