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I asked my son: "who's your best friend at school?"

Jason: "Jack."

Me: "Wouldn't you like him to come to all your scout meetings with you?"

Jason: "No, I don't think so."

 

Try as I might, I couldn't figure out why not, but my son has never invited anybody. What seems to be working for us is to run invitations in the school newsletters. We recruit at 4 schools. We try to be visible at community events such as parades and flag ceremonies. We have an awesome program (if I do say so myself), so parents sometimes invite neighbors. We also have a web site and a facebook page so that if anyone is looking for us, they can find us.

Part of today's announcement included the following: "...any sexual conduct, whether heterosexual or homosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting." I'm in Cub Scouting, and I'm reasonably confident that none of my scouts are sexually active, but I'm not at all sure that is true of Boy Scout troops, and I think its highly unlikely to be true in Venturing teams, since some of the scouts are 20 years old. What are your opinions on this? Do you have scouts in your troop or team who are sexually active? Do you care? Are they failing to live up to the virtues of scouting? Are they denied advancement?

Faith: I think you were going a little above and beyond. You were trying incorporate something scientific into the activity, when I think all you really need is to decorate it toward the theme. So I think changing up the targets is a great idea. Just have them shoot at something shaped like something that evokes science, like a diagram of an atom, or the solar system. Tell them their bb guns are are actually death rays, and they are going to destroy the planet of Alderon. Or they have to split the atom the way William Tell split the apple.

63% of US adults agree with Scouts for Equality. Why do we care what people think of scouting if they are not participating, and they don't plan on participating one way or the other? I've been thinking about this a lot. I've come up with an answer. The Boy Scouts of America is an iconic institution in America. Scout has come to be synonymous with honesty and integrity. I will use film as one example. I love movies. When the bad guy wants to make fun of the good guy for being so inflexible in his morality, he ridicules him by calling him a boy scout. Scouting has come to belong to all Americans. What we do reflects on our entire country. And so when we do something that most Americans feel is "unAmerican," they are entitled to their unease. We have a duty to our country as an organization to represent them well.

The bear handbook has good plans for a cub mobile in the electives section. Instead of a strip of tire for the break, I've seen some people use a hockey puck. We had a great time with our cub mobile. I couldn't build it, so I asked one the dads in my den. He did a great job. He ordered some really FAST wheels ad built it mostly of 2"x6"s and plywood. We won easily. It was little embarrassing. The boys were a little scared and dragged the break most of the way down the hill, and we still won. The way the district set it up, three boys to a car, three runs, add the times for all three runs. They had a cub scout bracket and a boy scout bracket. But the volunteer who organizes it retired from scouting, so we are not doing it this year. I'm really bummed because we have a really fast car! I would organize one myself, but I can't secure his venue, and I can't find another one.

My daughter bridged from daisy to brownie in August. She bridged from brownie to junior in June. Does it matter when a troop decides to bridge?

I will not leave the scouts if the resolution passes or fails. I will not leave because I will not deny my son the scouting experience. It is a worthwhile and valuable experience, even if the organization includes this horrible flaw. It is not a fatal flaw. If the child abuse scandals did not destroy the BSA, I can't see how the mistreatment of such a small minority is going to destroy it. If I refused to associate with organizations or people who failed to live up to their own ideals, I would find myself very, very isolated.

 

I will continue to lobby for change if the resolution passes or fails. I will start wearing a rainbow neckerchief slide to roundtable just to be provocative. I've decided to become provocative because I've been watching the 1982 Gandhi film. I came to appreciate his method very much. A few quotes: "The function of a civil resistance is to provoke response and we will continue to provoke until they respond or change the law." / "And when you do that [turn the other cheek], it calls on something in human nature... something that makes his hatred for you decrease and his respect increase." / "I want to change their minds. I don't want to kill them for weaknesses we all posses."

 

I honestly believe that the whole problem is a rather simple matter of us v. them. My attitudes towards homosexuals changed a great deal when I actually had dealings with real live homosexuals in the work place, day after day. We are the same. Homosexuals make up a small minority of Americans. They make up an even smaller minority of scouts. If more scouters had more contact with homosexual scouts and parents, there would be less fear and more acceptance. I don't know how to make that happen.

 

I saw something at scout stuff.org that is called a THANKS pin. It's only a few dollars. If it were me, I would prefer the photo, but as I don't have time to take a photo of all the boys, I am going to be giving my leaders a THANKS pin. Next year, I think we will plan a nice big group photo at the pinewood derby or the blue and gold banquet.

The biggest youth problem is obesity. College students could help other youth work towards earning the presidential fitness award and encourage the consumption of vegetables.

Why make it arbitrary? I'm thinking that an arbitrary division would make it easier to add new scouts to the den. When I scout joins the pack, we ask him which grade he is in, and then introduce him to the correct den leader. If the dens were divided alphabetically, it would be super-easy to assign the new boy to the correct den.

I'm trying to figure out how my district functions. I have been scouting in four different packs for five years, and I have yet to understand how a district is organized. Granted, I have not attended roundtables regularly for most of those years. If they are supposed to "help a unit succeed," where were they when my pack nearly disintegrated. As I recall, I lead the charge on year-round recruiting. (I'm a den leader.) We are up from 12 scouts to about 36 scouts in two years. (I would like to be at 48.) Any how, where are they? What should I expect from them? How do I get in touch with them? Are they just more interested in boy scouting than cub scouting? I suspect our district commissioner is having as much trouble staffing his committee as I am at staffing my little pack committee, so maybe he just doesn't have anyone to send my way.

We have 14 tigers. We are splitting the den so we will have two wolf dens next fall. We are trying to decide how to do it. I though it should be something arbitrary like geography, alphabetically or by age. I thought this would be best because then it would be easy to add more scouts to this den or that den. But someone else (on another forum) thought we should divide them up according to who their friends are. But I'm afraid this will make it very hard to add new scouts. I'm probably wrong. They can "shop" for their den the way the can "shop" for their pack. Weekly meeting times might play a role as well. Has anyone else ever done this? What worked? What didn't?

This spring, high school students set up a dodgeball tournament to raise money for the local children's hospital. They charged $10 per person. People had to put their own teams together. The teams were organized by age. I hate dodgeball, but I love the idea of kickball tournament. I'm toying with the idea of organizing the teams with mixed ages because I'm not sure I'll get enough people to form up enough teams if I sort them out by age, but I'm not sure mixed-age teams will work. The bigger boys will likely walk all over the smaller boys.

 

I'm also thinking this should be a charity event instead of raising money for ourselves. Even so, it would be a great recruiting tool. What do you think? Have you ever heard of any packs trying anything like this?

 

Okay, RememberSchiff's comment has been sitting here all solitary and lonely-like for a while, so I'll comment.

 

LDS's somewhat lukewarm support for the policy proposal may not ultimately be applauded by gay activists, for reasons that go beyond what many feel about the asymmetrical nature of the arrangement.

 

I spoke to a friend who is an LDS Scouter last weekend who had an interesting perspective on the LDS's announcement, which he said has to be understood in the context of the unique relationship of the BSA and the LDS. As the BSA is the official youth activity of the LDS, it is used primarily for religious purposes, and to promote personal growth, religious education and the advancement of their young men in their priesthood. Homosexuality is still seen as disordered by the LDS religion, although they have moved towards an acceptance of a same-sex attraction in Mormons as a way to treat them with compassion and help them move towards a lifestyle in accordance with LDS teachings. (If I have misunderstood LDS teaching, I apologize and welcome any comments in correction).

 

As LDS troops tend to be largely or solely LDS, the religious component will likely be used to mentor youths with a SSA attraction (using what he described as counseling and gentle peer support, without harassment or bullying), to guide them back into a lifestyle more in accordance with LDS teachings. LDS parents will be likely support this process. I don't think this is an official policy or plan, but as my friend said, it will be the likely end-result of any change in the process.

 

This would be possible in an LDS troop, due to their official involvement with scouting, in a way that most other non-LDS troops (even religious chartered ones) would not find possible.

 

I understand that most gay activists (and non-gays who support gay activism) find the idea that a gay youth could be "changed" in his or her sexual orientation to be anathema. So this might not be exactly the end-result of LDS gay inclusion they envisioned. The LDS church will not use any new policy to change their teachings or affirm homosexuality.

 

There is some good evidence (Savin-Williams, R.C. and Ream, G.L. (2007) Prevalence and Stability of Sexual Orientation Components During Adolescence and Young Adulthood. Archives of Sexual Behavior 36, 385-394) with a very large study sample (far larger than Kinsey's, for example) that there is a high rate of movement from self-image as gay or bisexual to heterosexual within a 1-year period (age 16 to 17, in the longitudinal study) in adolescents, which continues over the next 5 years, so an LGBT orientation is by no means a fixed self-identification. Kids are always in a state of flux, and are as prone to sexual identity experimentation as any other sort of self-identification. The movement from homosexuality or bisexuality at age 16 to self-identification as heterosexual by age 17 is 25 times higher than movement from the opposite extreme (heterosexual to a homosexual or bisexual self-identification). This research could be used to support gay inclusion in the BSA, incidentally, on the evidence that many boys (and girls) who are unsure about their orientation do, in fact, "grow out of it," and that a youth program model that encourages moral rectitude without harassment or bullying could cause a greater rate of change in orientation in those with a desire to be heterosexual, or simply out of a realization that most kids who may join while identifying as "gay" are statistically unlikely to remain that way. It deserves some consideration by those who oppose inclusion of youths who self-identify as LGBT, although youth safety issues involved in inclusion will remain problematic for many adult leaders and parents.

 

Surprisingly (or maybe not), the pull towards heterosexuality remains quite strong (which an exclusively evolutionary as well as a religious model of human origin would predict), and only a small proportion of those who identify exclusively as same-sex attracted at age 16 continue to do so at age 17 (without any intervention models). A very small percentage of those who identify as heterosexual move to homosexual. A large proportion (the majority) of those who identify as bisexual at 16 move largely to exclusively heterosexual, with a small group retaining a bisexual identity and a much smaller group moving to exclusively homosexual.

 

The sexual orientation self-identification rates from the cohort from age 17 to 25 show heterosexuals continue to largely remain heterosexuals. Of those who continued to identify as bisexuals by age 17, a majority moved to heterosexuality but a larger proportion continued as bisexual than during the 1-year 16 to 17 age period. 75% of those with a full same sex attraction at 17 had moved on to heterosexuality by age 25. Females show the greatest drop from full homosexuality at 17 - very few reported full same sex attraction by age 25, although women with an initial SSA are the only group that ended as a high proportion of bisexuality (than SSA or heterosexuality) at the end of the study.

 

There are no studies showing whether a counseling model based on long-term peer-group support for adolescents in a BSA model of mentorship and a spiritually-based program focusing on positive moral values would work any better than clinically based "conversion" programs (which are very controversial), as I don't think this has ever been tried before. Use of the BSA by some troops as a "gentle" conversion program would probably not be seen as a desirable outcome by LGBT activists. Could make the kids dig in their heels more, too, but maybe not.

 

From a strictly utilitarian perspective, the CDC research shows a much higher rate of suicide and self destructive behavior in nearly every category for LGBT youth. While some have argued that this is solely the end result of low self-esteem due to bullying and societal and family disapproval, if LGBT self-identification is more flexible that those with a political agenda may have led us to believe, maybe we should try to steer youths away through the youth mentorship programs pioneered by the BSA.

 

I don't have a dog in this particular fight, but it will be interesting to see what happens. I don't think National would want to touch this side-issue (religious counseling for conversion) with a 10-foot pole.

I am also an LDS Scouter, and I would disagree with your friend. Our leaders have gone to some lengths to help us understand that homosexual acts are sins but homosexuality itself is a personal challenge for the afflicted. In other words, if the scouts aren't having sex, it doesn't matter if they are gay. In fact, some Latter-day Saints I know don't believe that someone can be gay if they have never had sex.

 

On the other hand, if the scout is having sex, then it matters a great deal, gay or straight, and I am certain he will not be able to advance in rank; although, I've only ever volunteered at the Cub Scout level, and we don't have anything like a board of review.

 

It is official policy that troop activities should be used to reactivate young men who have stopped coming to church on Sundays. All boys on the membership roles are automatically registered in the pack, troop or team even if their parents haven't brought them to church for years.

I think the most frustrating thing for my unit so far has been the lack of availability of the "Pi" devices (pins). Has *anyone* seen them at their local scout shops?

 

Oh, and it was sad to say "no" when 9 boys wanted the unit to provide the $45 Supernova Medal. Wasn't in the plan and it's a little obnoxious for cub scout uniform wear in my opinion.

 

Thanks

The medal costs $45! THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS! Medals don't have to cost that much. My son has quite a collection of handsome medals he has won at sporting events. I can't believe they cost $45. Thanks for the heads up.

New plan (for me). We are approaching the end of our program year. I'm going to encourage all of my parents to buy the STEM/Nova handbooks when they go to buy their new wolf or bear handbooks. Since parents can be councilors, and the requirements for the Nova Awards are pretty simple, I will focus on becoming a mentor, and anyone who wants to can sign up to be in my science patrol, and I will help them earn a SuperNova Award. It looks like it will take the better part of the program year to complete anyway.

I don't think it would be difficult for an atheist to achieve reverence. Well, no more difficult than it is for all of our Christian scouts. Duty might be more challenging. Can a true atheist do his duty to God? A Buddhist can, I think, as I understand Buddhism, they have a duty to treat all men and women with kindness, and this is a duty to the universe or something like that. I have a Buddhist scout in my den, and he is planning to earn his religious emblem next year when he is a bear.

 

Likewise, some Unitarian Universalist consider themselves atheists, and they have a bona fide approved BSA religious emblem, too. So I would encourage any scout who claimed to be an atheist to study that curriculum, and see if he could bring himself to acknowledge anything supernatural at all, and do his duty to that. I read through the curriculum once, and I think duty to God differs very little to once duty tot the community, and that is okay by me.

I'm going to run out of den meetings this year before I can implement any part of this program with my den. Next year I am going to be the Pack Committee Chairman, so I won't really have a den to work with, but I think I want to implement anyway. All of our dens meet twice a week. I think I will schedule some optional den-like meetings for all the interested boys to work on the requirements for these awards. I think the need for improved STEM education is significant and worth the trouble to give these boys an advantage.

 

I'll need an assistant. I don't know if there is any other adults in the pack who might feel as strongly about this as I do. I'll have to find out. We'll need a mentor. I'm sure our council doesn't have one in our area. Reviewing the requirements, I don't see anything there that I couldn't handle; although, I studied history in college, and taught Spanish as my first career. My second career was data analysis and that sounds very mathematically, doesn't it. I think I will try to get approved as a mentor.

 

Here's my super-brief list of the requirements for the SuperNova awards.

 

Cub Scout SuperNova Award: (1) earn the science and math belt loops, (2) earn three academic pins (from list), (3) learn something about Dr. Alvarez, (4) learn something about three other scientists, (5) ask Akela why math and science are important, (6) participate in a science project, (7) learn about a science career, (8) learn about the scientific method, (9) participate in a science related activity with your den or pack, (10) submit application

 

Webelos Scout SuperNova Award: (1) earn scholar, scientist and engineer badges, (2) earn three more badges from list, (3) learn something about Dr. Townes, (4) learn something about five other famous scientists, (5) ask Akela why math and science are important, (6) participate in a science project, (7) learn about a science career, (8) perform an experiment using the scientific method, (9) participate in a science-related activity with your den or pack, (10) submit application.

 

I had to look it up to be sure, but "parents and unit leaders may serve as NOVA counselors even if they have little or no background in STEM" (Page 52). Elsewhere in the manual it does mention the challenge of making sure every scout completes every requirement when you are working with six scouts at the same time.

I really wanted to do a NOVA award this year with my wolf cubs, but I can't figure out how to manage it. I bought the book. I read it, but I just can't figure out how to turn it into a den meeting. Has anyone here managed this successfully? Do you have any advice?

 

Here is my extra-brief summary of the requirements:

 

SCIENCE EVERYWHERE: (1) watch or read about science for an hour, (2) complete a belt loop, (3) choose a question and investigate it using the scientific method, (4) visit a science place like a zoo, (5) discuss science with your counselor.

 

TECH TALK: (1) look up the word technology, (2) discuss technology with your counselor, (3) watch or read about technology for an hour, (4) complete a belt loop, (5) discuss your belt loop with your counselor, (6) visit a technology place, like a factory, (7) discuss technology with your counselor again.

 

SWING: (1) watch or read about machines for an hour, (2) complete a belt loop, (3) draw some levers and discuss with your counselor, (4) visit a place that uses levers, like a playground, (5) design something with a lever, (6) discuss levers with your counselor.

 

1-2-3 GO: (1) watch or read about math for an hour, (2) complete the math or computer pin, (3) calculate your weight on the moon, the height of a tree or the volume of air in your bedroom, (4) explain the relationship between math and secret codes, (5) discuss math with your counselor.

 

OK, just writing that all out helped me a lot. I think I can put something together, but I'm still interested in your input. Thanks!

 

I'm looking forward to earning my first knot this year. It wasn't easy getting to the training and making sure I did some of the other things, but I really did want to give the boys a proper, quality program, and not a watered-down version of it. I also learned about the National Den Award, and I made sure we did everything on that list, too. That award is just a ribbon for the den flag, but that's okay. Our pack flag has a ton of ribbons on the top. It would be fun to do the same for our den flag.

Awesome! I hope they are successful.

I apologize for intentially highjakcing this thread, but I seem to no longer be authorized to start new threads. This makes no sense to me. If anyone can clarify, I will be grateful.

 

I saw a post on facebook today featuring some pioneering projects which are sculptures of things like dragons and super heroes. It got me thinking again about how much I would like to do a pioneering project with my scouts. I only have second graders. Some of them can't even tie their shoes, but they use high-interest topics to encourage reluctant readers, and even a small pioneering project is more interesting than tying a shoe...

 

The thing that stops me in my tracks before I ever get started are the poles. Where on earth am I supposed to find some poles. I've read that bamboo works well, but I imagine we would need some poles at least 1" in diameter, maybe 2" depending on what we want to build, and I can't imagine where I might find that stuff, so I'm posting here in the hopes of finding out where some real scouters actually found some real poles for a real pioneering project. Thanks!

Each family is encouraged to subscribe when they pay their annual dues. We do not use it in the program, but sometimes one of the parents will find something in there that will work for the program like the passport to fishing program. That might have been in Scouting magazine. I pay for my son's subscription because I want to encourage him to read, and it's so cheap: 12 issues for $12!

I don't have any experience in this, but some possible solutions I can think of: (1) increase dues, (2) decrease the percentages allocated to the individual accounts, (3) add another fundraiser.