Hiromi

YEh, I understand. I guess it is a taste issue. I really loathe the blue and gold and Cubbing culture in general. It is my own personal Idaho of prejudice. I was a cub and in webelos. I have issues with the transition from cubbing to scouts- and I am still working it out on my end. I have begun to transition my consoldiated unit into a bifurcated Cub Pack and Boy Scout Troop. But I am still the overall leader of both, and have not yet gone with the den-mother and Cub Scouting rank advancement thing. But I do have a female ASM now!(And two other male ASMs). My scouts get their first promotion when they are third graders and get to have some denner authority. Once they are in fifth grade they begin to matriculate into the junior patrol as senior weblos. (THis was actually advised to me by my District exec- who also thinks that webelos ought to get into a BS group asap to insure transitioning). If my unit grows I plan on allowing the older boys to split into their own patrols so they are with their own age groups. But I realize this is not for everyone. ANd if you think they look cute in tiger regalia- try a campaign hat- Knock Out Punch of cuteness! Pappy(This message has been edited by Pappy)

Old Grey Eagle- Good thoughts. Perhaps after considering what you just expressed I'll modify what I wrote and say that perhaps it should have been voted on by the scouts-- But the design competiton for the logo as well as the uniform could be submitted by any body (that way the bset idea may come from an adult and or non-scouting quarter). THe images and concepts could be posted on a website and it could be voted on by active scouts. I offer my congratulations ot the winner. I'm sure he can handle a critique of his work if he is an eagle scout. (If he plans on going to art school hell have a rude awakening if he isn't.) I'm all for getting Irving out of the equation of BSA's image-making department- here I think they really drop the ball. Pappy(This message has been edited by Pappy)

It is a very safe logo design- very corporate slick- very dull. It neither offends nor inspires. An old heavily pitted scout axe next to a GPS devise or some other juxtaposition might have been more interesting. A WWI scout helping a fallen soldier next to a current scout tape recording an aging vet would have gone to a deeper level of what scouting has been and continues to be.. And if you do go with an eagle- make it one bad ass eagle- not an abstract albino one that looks like it just smashed itself into a 2010 etched plate glass window. It's slanted to "all modern" and scouting is TIMELESS. I was against the idea of having the contest open only to scouts . We should have asked the best artists on earth to volunteer us their ideas. Instead- we have tens of thousands or more of scouts who lost out to a scout who's design they will probably hate or at least resentfully scrtatch their heads over. Wouldn't it have been interesting to see what former scouts would have come up with as well? Seemed like a serious logo to make into a scout project. Pappy(This message has been edited by Pappy)(This message has been edited by Pappy)

Walmart sells a really smart looking line of work clothes. Very uniform looking - big functional pockets- heavy cotton blend, nice grey, blue, and buff colors. SOme are pretty inexpensive. I bought 25 green basball caps for $3 each two monthes ago (I just drew on our logo with a Sharpie). Scouting is so rear in my neck of the woods- it would be pretty strange if someone asked you if you were BSA or a BP scout even if you were not plainly marked as such by wearing the necker and hat and a scout-like uniform. Around here at least- no one knows about any other kind of scouting than a BSA. (ANd hardly anyone really cares either). Most peple just love to see boys behaving themselves and doing something productive outside. What a site for sore eyes! My philosophy about my unit is- let's do our darndest to make BSA look good. EVen if we know we aren't following every suggestion handed down to us from Irving). In our town people see our scouts and say- that is how a scout oughta look. (Except for the other scouters- who don't approve). LOng haired undisciplined ill mannered out of uniform boys don't make BSA look good. And it is better for BSA and FOS I suppose that a lot of units don't wear uniforms in public- they wouldn't be doing anybody a favor. THe uniform and the conduct often times goes hand in hand. A rule of thumb for Home Schooling is- if you can't get first-time discipline out of your child- you are probably not ready to begin homeschooling them. That rule I suppose can be applied to the effecitveness of a scout unit. If a boy isn't obedient, he probably will start getting real forgetful about bringing his uniform to scouts. I am really seeing the logic to a boy lead patrol- but the minimal mandates of scouting culture need to be instilled from the adult leadership down. Pappy(This message has been edited by Pappy)

I personally don't like it when scouts start looking too civilian. I will discontinue using the terms class A and B and go with the official uniform and activity uniform (But with the caveat that these terms are ridiculous because obviously the scouters on this forum have expressed less than a consensus on the notion that the official uniform should be the out door activity uniform. It makes my head spin.) I think the official uniform is very attractive. We use it for nearly %100 percent of our activities. It is perfect for our after school activities and parades and field trips to museums and such. It is the best public face we have for uniforms. But I still think that BSA would do itself a favor by offering an official activity uniform for different use and regions and climate. It could be an option and not a mandate. We even thinned a forest for two consecutive weekends last fall in uniform for all the public to see- we looked great- but the uniforms took a severe beating. I think it would be really cool is the BSA offered different ensemble: suggestions that they would offer in their catalog, like-- Boy Scout Jungle Uniform Boy Scout Woodland Uniform Boy Scout Klondike Uniform Etecetra. Be that as it may- I still detest the Official Cub Scout Uniform and will have nothing to do with it. I think there was real wisdom in allowing webelos (cub scouts) to transition over to the khaki tan. I think the one "scout" uniform is appropriate for all scouts- whatever Irving might think. Will my kids presence at inner District and council events raise a few eye-browse?- Sure. So What? They will be prepared for raised eye-browse and inquisitions from the ever present uniform police. Will my scouts look awesome in their "Boss of the Prairies" (Campaign hats) and khaki tans - you betcha! Are they unhappy that they aren't wearing the blue and gold - No Way Jose! And each den and the patrol get to all pick their group neckerchief. They will be 45 inches and home-made. We went with Pitch black, Forest Green, and Navy Blue. We don't wear slides yet in our unit but tie the neckers with square knots. We are considering Bob Whites suggestion in an earlier post of a squirrel skull. Pretty awesome. The official slides fall off during the hour long PT we have at most meetings the square knot it practical and it looks good (More Cowboy). In an area of Illinois with such lousy uniform practice in general; the idea of sticking to official BSA uniform guidelines seems almost arcane. People around here just think- well we can wear jeans with a shirt and no necker, - or a t-shirt from some summer camp a few years back or whatever. I say- It is either uniform (In the true sense of the word meaning that we are all alike) or it is not uniform. Part of our uniform is a white tea-shirt to be worn underneath the official khaki shirt. If it gets hot we take off the uniform shirts and have the uniform whites. This keeps the scouts looking professional. Uniforming is a cultural thing. Being that my CO is a uniformed private school, it is not a big transition for my scouts to change from one uniform to another. It is like an after-to-school sports program almost. (In fact the tan uniform pants at the CO's school are more rugged than the BSA pants (They have a reinforced double layer knee section). You would think that the BSA in all their 100 years of experience and accrued collective wisdom (He wrote with scathing sarcasm) would offer a rugged uniform pants at least! Half the kids in my units the knees are nearly worn through. Bottom line- I think a Troop or Pack should look like scouts AND be as idiosyncratic as they need to be to keep the esprit de corps in their unit. Sometimes a scoutmaster has to say- "BSA be damned!-We're Scouts first." Pappy (This message has been edited by Pappy)

Stosh, What you describe is how we currently do it as well. Perhaps I am too sensitive to the grumblings of my scout parents- who complain when the nice and expeinsive uniform gets all beat up on camp outs. I have seen a scout with a brand new uniform not five minutes into a five mile hike take a spill and rip the crap out of his pants. His mom was fit to be tied. (THough she was already fit to be tied in general). I just can imagine a better uniform for rugged outdoor behavior than the current uniform- which seems a little light weight and dressy. Pappy

AnneinMpls, Third post on "ALl things Pappy" are two examples of "Wide Games" we have conducted. http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=181186&p=1 We put a little time into making up the injured to look pretty graphically real. THis adds a lot of drama. Acting out an injury goes along way to making the event more fun and engaging for the boys. Think about a downed power line scenario. THey run across bodies in wetr grass. Should they approach? Are they penalized if they do. YEs- they have been electrocuted. Also- if you can swing it, a boy in a deep hole or canyon that needs to be pulled to rescue (right out of Follow Me Boys.) What knot should be used? Etc. Getting a stretcher over a ravine with rope and cunning. That is fun too. Also- do they know the symbols fro hazardous materials?? Barrels with these on them could be a part of the game. CHlorine Gas is a nice noxious substance. First aide on inhaling this? Our Klondike had a really cool sceanrio- You are a boy scout patrol that happens upon a plane crash site! Help is over an hour away via helicopter. Lives are in peril if first aide and perhaps CPR are not performed NOW. Good luck. Pappy

Guten Tag! Slouchhat, If we could get scouts to wear their uniforms to school we would proclaim it miracle day. (Most Cub and Boy Scouts around these parts don't wear their uniforms to meetings as it is). I could get my Cubs to wear their uniform everyday of the weak- but they are a pretty gung ho lot- and their uniform is a lot cooler than the school uniform. But the older boys- wear their scout uniform to the Junior High or High School? That is not a far cry from martyrdom. But maybe it is a regional thing. Probably Bob Whites boys have enough pride in their uniform because he delivers the program that they were promised. They most likely perform the flag ceremonies at the High basketball games. But around here uniforms are pretty scarce. Maybe we need to do more thinking. Happy thinking day! Pappy (This message has been edited by Pappy)

This seems to be a subject that comes up a lot. Why must a scout unit only be uniformed during indoor meetings and such, but when they actually do scouting adventures they so often all go individualistic with the clothes. I actually came close to driving over to the local Carhardt factory here in my home town and asking them about designing a Boy Scout utility outfit. I personally like airman and aviator flight suits. They have lots of zippers and places for patches- they have something old and military about them- and new and space-age as well. Military BDUs are of course designed for the kind of use that scouts do. But I am not trying to suggest that the uniform must look totally Rambo either. Just tough, sensible, relatively inexpensive, and cool. For a cover- I think the Military booney cap is an excellent hat, and I notice scouts are already using them (see latest issue of Boys Life- the canoe trip is pretty military looking). I think BSA ought to offer a class B outdoor utility uniform. I think it would be really cool. But I would love to hear form you all on this subject. Do you believe as I, that there is a uniform deficit when it comes to outdoor uniforms? And no, I do not think that switchbacks are the answer. They are part of class As in my opinion. I want to know if we can think of a scout uniform that can handle falls, slides down embankments, burns, that is good in heat and cold, and can generally serve a scout well in the field. Pappy (This message has been edited by Pappy)

"Yeh Bob! And that goes double for me!" Just kidding Bob. But GOld Winger, if you really are sincere about your expressed beliefs on this and other threads about offering burnt sacrifice, than power to you. I thought, as Bob does, that you are poking fun at other people's religion. Bob was in the process of answering someone's question, and your post didn't seem to relate except in jest. Pappy(This message has been edited by Pappy)

Hi Lisa365, Ram rod contest. Scouts compete to break open a castle door with a log. The castle door can be two vertically standing reenforced 4 by 8 sheets of 5/8 ply. They can be secured by a two by four bolt (which will break). Robin Hood and Friar tuck competition. Boys stand on beam or log over shallow brook or pond or creek or puddle. Scouts have shafts of pvc padded with foam. Helmets would be wise. The object is to knock the opponent into the water. Very fun. Archery competition of course ala Robin Hood. Spear throwing/ tomahawk or hatchet throwing. Climbing competition using rope netting over a wall (general medieval obstacle course.) Turkey drumstick eating contest. First one to complete their drumstick wins the serving wench (girl scout) for a night. For a religious component - have the scouts stand vigil for a period of time maintaining absolute silence. Make torches for night-time ceremony. Bon Fire lighting. Just don't sing German songs extolling the virtues of the Fhrer! Rope swinging over ravine. Catapult firing competition. Arrow making. Make Campfire bread. Make Sausage. Make Sour Kraut . Roast a sow or a lamb or turkey drumsticks. Make uniforms from burlap sacks and tell the scouts that they are lowly serfs until they earn the mantel of Knighthood. Crawl through a marshy area getting the scouts really mucky. Theyll get the lower caste medieval serf-thing real fast. Have fun. Pappy

"Yah! What Bob Said!" Pappy

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Q. 1. Am I obligated to go to Holy Mass on Sundays? A. 1. According to the Church precepts, you are obligated to attend Mass on Sunday. Q. 2. Where do I find information on these Church precepts? A. 2. "The first precept ("You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation.") requires the faithful to participate in the Eucharistic celebration when the Christian community gathers together on the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord." (Catechism of the Catholic Church # 2042) (Note: "Eucharistic celebration" means "Holy Mass.") The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holydays of obligation, the faithful are obliged to assist at Mass. They are also to abstain from such work or business that would inhibit the worship to be given to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, or the due relaxation of mind and body." (Canon Law # 1247) "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day." [Canon Law # 1248.1] (C.C.C. # 2180)

Catholics who are shut-ins have the option to participate in a Mass by watching it on television. I am thinking that perhaps something could be arranged this way. I know that EWTN the Catholic network out of Alabama has live Masses performed throughout the day. Consecrated hosts can be brought to the camp-out and distributed by a Church member. OGE- let me know if I'm right about this. Though setting up the SAtelite dish might be tricky I suppose!. And GOld WInger- it was a Cosmic Fact that your pagan rights would inevitably descend upon this thread. I would love to watch you perform such a rite. I slaughtered my first goat in the Maine woods back in 1990. I cried like baby. Something about killing something up close and personal and deliberately is quite a shock to the system. I still think it ranks as one of the better coming age rights for young men - though I'm sure this notion would ignite the ire of a lot of the forum members. What was the one movie where the boy was told to drink the heart blood of the first deer he shot? That is a good one too. But thank goodness for MAlchesadek and Our savior for allowing us to forgo with the necessity of such rituals. Pappy

I'm just enjoying sitting back and watching you old timers slug it out. And Beava- so far so good. Infact- the more I grow in scouting, as I have said, the more I come to see the wisdom of much of BSA's methods. But I have seen it so poorly executed (and by the Book) that I initially blamed the book. I am using the book more and more as I grow. But I still am baffled by scouters who sit back and watch bad situations occuring with boys during scouting and seem either unaware or unimaginitve as to what to do. Scouting without instinct and expereince and judgmnent IMHO is dead. Pappy

Hi Beava, Usually we camp in areas where a church isn't too far away- so far. We made it part of our policy when we first set up our troop and pack that Mass would be a part of outings. This came right from our Parish priest- so it was nice and official. Our COs Brownie troop is currently lead by a non-Catholic Mom and some of the other mom's are fairly cafeteria(Pick and choose) about their faith- so blowing off the Sunday obilgation happens on their overnights except for a few stalwart moms who seek each other out and sneak out Sunday Morning for Mass. This is a fairly awkward situation for the Brownies, and they have considered instituting a policy like ours. Catholics can meet their Sunday obligations at Saturday evening masses. This is the Mass our unit usually goes to. Priests are all different on the subject of Sunday Obligation. Our Priest thinks that when his parishioners go on a vacation they should make Mass a part of the planning for that trip. You are never on vacation from God. But extraordinary situations are a part of life. Bad weather, war, disasters, health, are all common reasons why the minimum weekly obligation might not be met. But scouting should not become a day off from obligations. So I would say to a Catholic troop that is going to be gone for ten days or more to speak with the parish priest. Maybe they can attend Mass the day they leave and the Day they return. Ideally, Catholics ought to go to Mass once a day but this is difficult and not required. Maybe the scouts can perform a Rosary every day during the outing or other observances to keep them focused on their reverential obligation. Priest are pretty creative in these areas and Im sure something can be worked out. The good rule of thumb is- you cant overdo worship and reverence. Every time a scout breaks bread, wakes up, goes to bed, are great occasions for prayer and reflection. Ecumenism is encouraged by the Church. Spiritual fellowship and sharing of the faith and customs is a good thing and to be encouraged. OGE can correct any mistakes I may have made. I usually get some of this stuff wrong! Pappy (This message has been edited by Pappy)(This message has been edited by Pappy)

Good point OGE, but what I meant was not whole-sale throwing out the book, but that BW's reliance on the methods seems to imply that adherence alone will make scouting successful. It smacks of a Frank Burns-like nose in the Army Regs approach to leadership. I think this is ridiculous. There is common sense, intuition, taste, and a lot of other intangible elements that go into leading adults and boys. Great leaders are usually obedient to rules, and wise breaker of rules. This is because rules fall short of anticipating all contingencies. I have lived long enough to see many examples of by the numbers techniques which lack spirit and vitality. The BSA does a pretty piss poor job, for instance, of adult Cub Scout leader training. Those insipid training videos would scare the dead away from wanting to volunteer. You can have a very by-the-numbers by-the-book mediocrity. You can also have a very unorthodox approach that delivers the ultimate aims of scouting. I personally think that the aims can trump the methods. But as someone said a while back- it is all probably on a continuum. I just find Bob Whites faith in prescriptive scouting to be stiflingly limited and mechanical. Troops and Packs are all very different, and reflect the geniuses and talents and personalities of the locale. Emphasizing one method over another (or even a variation on a method) may be the wisest course in some situations. All situations are not alike. And Bob's belief in the gloriously wise 100 year tradition of scouting should take into account scoutings failures as well (if they are recorded). Bob always blames people if there is a failure in scouting- and never the methods and procedures. He says- oh well- they didnt deliver what the boy was promised. I find this to be a very defensive stance. BSA is not MacDOnalds. The franchise should be adaptable to the CO- which I believe it is. Im all for Orthodoxy when it comes to my faith- but not when it comes to scouting and dealing with boys. Pappy

Hispanic/Latino American Demographics in a Changing America Printer-Friendly Version Overview The word Hispanic is a generic term derived from the word Espaa, which is the Spanish word for Spain. People of any race who trace their family origin to a Spanish-speaking country are Hispanic. Hispanic people can be of any race. They constitute a pluralistic society of many national origins. Growing ethnic diversity will continue to create new challenges and opportunities for the Hispanic Emphasis of the Boy Scouts of America. U.S. Hispanics experienced the largest population growth of any racial or ethnic group between April 1, 2000, and July 1, 2002. According to the latest U.S. Census figures, the Hispanic population rose to 38.8 million, bringing the total U.S. Hispanic American/Latino population to 42.7 million people. Hispanic Demographics More than three-quarters of Hispanic Americans/Latinos live in the West and South; half of all Hispanics live in just two states: Texas and California. The Hispanic population has increased by more than 50 percent since 1990. People of Mexican origin represented the largest group of Hispanic Americans/Latinos, at 66.8 percent, followed by Puerto Ricans (8.6 percent), Cuban Americans (3.8 percent), and other Hispanic (20.8 percent). Some counties in nontraditional Hispanic states, such as Georgia and North Carolina, had sizeable proportions of Hispanic populations. Thirty-five percent of Hispanic Americans/Latinos were less than 18 years of age. The median age for Hispanic Americans/Latinos is 25.9 years. Challenges Faced by the BSA Many professional Scouters and volunteers have discovered some real challenges in organizing traditional Scouting units in predominately Hispanic communities. The reasons are many, but two factors seem to contribute to the struggles many unit-serving executives face: The perception that Scouting is for wealthy families. Scouting is not a household experience shared by most Hispanic Americans/Latinos. Many newly arrived immigrants (first-generation Hispanics) from Mexico and parts of Central and South America, and a large number of second-generation families perceive Scouting as a youth program reserved for wealthy families. When a child brings a Cub Scout flier home from school, the conclusion many of these parents draw is that Scouting can't possibly be for them. The second factor is equally challenging. Most Hispanic Americans/Latinos don't have a long tradition of Scouting in their families. The vast majority can honestly say their grandfathers, fathers, and uncles were not in Scouting as youths. This is an unfortunate reality when one takes into account that Hispanic Americans/Latinos are among the most "brand loyal" consumers in this country. Solutions to These Challenges Council executives who are serious about serving their growing Hispanic American/Latino communities should keep in mind that it will take some time for unit-serving executives and volunteers to establish the trust and confidence of Hispanic American/Latino parents about a program that's fairly new to them. Hiring local Hispanic men and women who are bilingual and knowledgeable about the benefits of Scouting can quicken the pace. Also, recruiting Hispanic community leaders to serve in council Scoutreach committees and executive boards is a tremendous plus. Community Resources Available to Local Councils Most cities in the United States have Hispanic community?based organizations that address the social, political, and economic growth of their communities. Members of these organizations are themselves "movers and shakers" of Hispanic communities, and can be great resources to councils. Examples of these organizations include Hispanic/Latino chambers of commerce League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC) Local chapters of the National Council of La Raza Letters of endorsement from these and other national Hispanic organizations are available through the Scoutreach Division and can be helpful in selling Scouting to local Hispanic chapters. Other community resources include Hispanic-owned community newspapers and TV stations Hispanic small business owners Churches with a large Hispanic population (e.g., Roman Catholic Church) Resources Available to Local Councils The national office produces a wide array of Spanish-language resources designed to assist unit-serving executives in promoting Scouting's awareness in Hispanic communities. These resources, most of which are parent-focused, include bilingual, colorful brochures, fliers, posters, booklets, videos, and training manuals. Especially helpful to unit-serving executives are the following: Marketing to Hispanic Americans in Your Local Council (No. 94-070) Scouting: It Works for Your Youth brochure (No. 94-098) !Scouting! Vale la Pena (It's Worth the Effort) posters (No. 94-110) Your Organization and Scouting brochure for prospective chartered organizations (No. 94-003) Que Es Scouting? (What Is Scouting?) orientation video for parents (94-124) Spanish translation of the following handbooks for Hispanic/Latino youth: Manual del Tiger Cub (94-219) Manual del Wolf (94-244) Manual del Bear (94-217). Manual del Webelos (94-252). Cub Scouting Tiempo Bien Utilizado (No. 02-453) More Than Ever, American Families Need Cub Scouting (No. 13-077) Cub Scouting: Un Buen Programa Para Neustras Familias (No. 13-125) Su HijoUn Gran Tesoro (Your SonA Great Treasure) (No. 94-018) ScoutingSi Funciona Para Sus Ninos (ScoutingIt Works for Your Youth) (No. 94-098) Unit-serving executives can order these and all other Spanish materials directly from the National Distribution Center by calling 800-323-0732. BSA's Spanish Web Site www.scoutingvalelapena.org gives Spanish-speaking parents an overview of the various traditional Scouting programs, including BSA's Soccer and Scouting program. A council locator enables interested parents to identify the council service center near their homes and provides the names of bilingual staff who can assist them. Top 10 Hispanic/Latino Markets for 2006 Place Hispanic/Latino Population (millions) Percent of Area's Population Primary Country of Origin by Market 1. Los Angeles 8.4 46.7% Mexico 80% 2. New York 4.3 20.7% Puerto Rico 31% 3. Miami 2.1 48.6% Cuba 46% 4. Chicago 1.9 19.5% Mexico 81% 5. Houston 1.9 33.6% Mexico 81% 6. San Francisco 1.7 23.7% Mexico 76% 7. Dallas/Fort Worth 1.6 24.5% Mexico 88% 8. Phoenix 1.2 26.6% Mexico 93% 9. San Antonio 1.2 53.8% Mexico 91% 10. Rio Grande Valley 1.1 NA Mexico 96% Source: Synovate U.S. Diversity Markets Report 2006

Girl Scouts successful in recruiting Hispanics Associated Press S unday, January 28, 2007COMMENTPRINTEMAIL ATLANTA - A program that seeks to recruit Hispanics for Girl Scout troops has been booming in metro Atlanta, with more than 1,600 girls involved by last year in some 46 Hispanic troops. Though Hispanic girls have long been in the Girl Scouts, the organization has recently targeted those who might not speak English for specific recruiting efforts. In 2003, two years after the effort started in metro Atlanta, there were 400 Hispanic Girl Scouts in the area, said Consuelo Luna, who oversees the effort for the Girl Scout Council of Northwest Georgia. Last year, the number had quadrupled, and another 1,000 Hispanic girls belong to traditional troops. "Girl Scouts is basically an American tradition, so being part of this allows them to be a part of America, too," said Jenny Kocher, who is originally from Colombia and oversees Hispanic troops in several metro Atlanta counties. Ms. Kocher recently joined troop leader Norma Mendoza at a meeting in DeKalb County to discuss cookie sales, the Scouts' biggest fundraiser of the year. Ms. Kocher said that girls from the Hispanic troops will have a tougher sale than other Scouts, in part because the Girl Scouts aren't well known among Hispanics. Soledad Ramirez, a Mexican immigrant, had never heard of the Girl Scouts until her 9-year-old daughter asked if she could sign up. But two years after the girl joined, Ms. Ramirez said she can see the benefits. "More than anything, she is learning to respect people," she said. From the Sunday, January 28, 2007 edition of the Augusta Chronicle

Boy Scouts' focus is on Latino recruiting Betty Reid The Arizona Republic Jul. 26, 2005 12:00 AM When it comes to recruiting Arizona's fastest growing population group, Arizona's Boy Scouts simply haven't been prepared. But like good troop leaders, Boy Scouts of America officials assessed their situation and are trying to adapt with a marketing campaign aimed at beefing up Hispanic membership to better reflect the state. "If you look at the demographics, if you look at how the Hispanic population is growing, as an organization we have a responsibility to offer our program to all families," said George Randall, national director of the BSA's Scoutreach. "It is the right thing to do. If you've got a growing population whose values dovetail with the values of Scouting, it's a match." advertisement In Arizona, only one in 10 Boy Scouts is Latino, and leaders here, like many other Valley businesses and organizations, are pushing hard to find ways to tap into Arizona's quickly rising Latino market. However, they face some real challenges including apathy, misconceptions and, at least among immigrant Latinos, that the Boy Scouts are only for the affluent. Arizona BSA leaders are especially looking to heavily Hispanic urban areas in Phoenix, Mesa and Glendale, in hopes of adding to the ranks. Nationally, the Boys Scouts have 3.1 million members; of that 7.3 percent are Hispanic, according to numbers provided by the National Council of Boy Scouts of America's Scoutreach offices in Irving, Texas. In Arizona, there are 52,000 Scouts, and less than 10 percent are Hispanics, according to BSA's Grand Canyon Council. Those numbers exclude units, or troops, organized by many church groups. Larry Abbott, chief executive officer of the Grand Canyon Council, said in 2002 that not enough catered to Valley Hispanics. The council added 50 units since January and is heavily recruiting in apartment facilities in low-income areas of Mesa and south Phoenix, he said. But it continues to struggle in heavily Hispanic areas such as the Pueblo District, which covers south, central and west Phoenix. There are fewer than 100 Latino Scouts in the Pueblo District. Alex Estrella is familiar with the challenges of troop membership. The 16-year-old from south Phoenix joined the Boy Scouts when he was in first grade and saw his troop's numbers dip from 16 to four. He said Scouting just isn't that popular among students. "We get called 'sissies.' It's sad because they don't know what they are missing," Estrella said. "I try to explain shooting 12 gauges and rifles. If they find that sissy, then honestly, they don't know the definition of sissy." The number of Hispanics in Scouts has dipped, especially in Maricopa County since 1993 when 900 Hispanic youngsters were recruited and about eight units started, said Frank Ramirez, now associate director of Scoutreach Division of the National Council of the BSA. A self-described "pioneer" of the Valley's Scout recruitment nearly a decade ago attributes the roller-coaster ride of Hispanic numbers in the Arizona Scouts to family involvement and affordability. "Among Latino families, we don't have a long history of our grandfather or uncles having been Scouts," Ramirez said. "There really isn't that hand-down tradition of a grandfather passing down a uniform to a grandson." Though units continue to exist in Latino neighborhoods, there was not a concerted effort given to the leadership until now, Ramirez said. Scoutreach started in 1998 with a threefold mission to recruit adult leaders, to ensure that minority youths had an opportunity to join and to create a community-based partnership with the national office. Its marketing logo is "Scouting, vale la pena," or "Scouting, it's worth the effort." Scouting can incur costs with the purchase of uniforms and necessary equipment for functions like camping, hiking and other activities. Ramirez said expenses can scare off poor families and immigrants. Librada Martinez, Pueblo District community liaison, believes the Boy Scouts should be a perfect match for many traditional Latino families because the Scouts promote values they hold dear such as education, faith, family and strong relationships. But Martinez concedes that there are challenges to overcome. "(In) our Latino countries, these kinds of programs are for privileged kids," Martinez said. Then there is the language issue. Many Latinos in the Valley are Spanish dominant and some parents believe they won't be able to communicate their needs, so they don't pursue the effort. Martinez said the Pueblo District has printed brochures in Spanish and bought time on Spanish radio and TV stations. Some Hispanic families don't need a heavy nudge to join. Jonathan Fierro, for example, enjoys the Scouts. The 12-year-old joined as a first-grader and spent time with Pack 907 Cub Scout Unit this month at Garfield School, where he learned about maps. "My parents like it because I behave better," he said. "I used to get in fights every day. Student bullies used to push me around, and I would fight. After the Scouts, I just let them talk and I turn my back." Reach the reporter at betty.reid@arizonarepublic.com or (602) 444-8049

Ola Amigos, Both of my ASM's are Hispanic - 1st Generation. One is a former Marine and now a Baker. The other is a City economic Development Director. Both are really good role models and speak Spanish. One belongs to the church in town where most of the Hispanics attend. I am hoping that we can cultivate this field by spreading the message with a messenger with a familiar face. Check out the last issue of Scouter magazine. A Hispanic Scoutmaster and his troop in CA were featured as the cover story. Also- Mexicans especially have many cultural/religious celebrations that are really good opportunities for recruiting that I will be taking advantage of. Piatas are much appreciated. Boy Scots hosting such an event isn't stupid either. Showing them that BSA cares and that it isn't a Gringo organization is important. One problem that I foresee arising is the issue of back ground checks and parents info. As a culture they have been put on the defensive about this. At least that is what my ASMs have told me. WE have a little bit of an advantage because we are overtly a Catholic Unit. The Guadalupe and the religious/cultural divide is not as narrow as it is amongst most Caucasian Americans. Embracing their culture is a good gesture of embracing them. Pappy

Bob wrote...."Is it required? No more than any other Method. Is it vital in order to deliver a quality scouting program? No less than any other Method. No Method is "required", yet no Method can be left out, and still have a quality Scouting program." Says YOU Bob. But scouting by the book is NOT infallible. I have seen things done by the numbers and the program seemed to be lacking energy, spirit, and a reason for being (ANd I bet you have too.). It takes inspiration and a certain talent to be an effective leader - whether it is in the United States Army, the Police Department, a Hospital Administrator, or a Scoutmaster. I think it is a lot like teaching- either you have got the gift or you don't. All the methods and practices of teaching classes wont change that essential fact. Scouting methodology is not a guarantee of success. And a unit can deliver a quality experience for the boy even if certain elements are lacking.----The ends of scouting can justify means that may or may not be by the numbers. Says Pappy. Pappy

The Boy Scout Handbook pretty much implies uniform wearing, outdoor activities, and the forming of Patrols. It doesn't imply that these are suggestions but that this is scouting. It is the boy's number one guide, besides the older scout's and their Troop traditions (if there are any) , the scoutmaster's, the scouts parent's and their expectations of what scouting ought to be, and the CO. So all this talk about a minimalized scouting seems pretty contrived when on the face of it BSA makes it pretty darned clear what boy scouting is. And this is Pappy writing here - not Bob White. There is a lady in our area that goes around garage sales and flea markets picking up BSA uniforms and stripping them of patches. She sells them for about $5. You can find cheap uniforms. And you usually can find FOS willing to chip in for a uniform scholarship budget. I don't buy the economics argument at all. Kids get their paws on all sorts of expensive items like video games and tennis shoes and skate boards. I think the uniforming thing is easier when the boys learn early on in cub scouting that the uniform is the package that scouting comes in -period. (Whether this is technically true or not). There is a big reason why the Marines have such magnificent dress uniforms - that uniform represents a glorious tradition and it is a symbol of pride. A marine is always a marine- but the uniform is something very special and it is their most formal expression in peace-time. The idea of esprit de corps is important and goes back to the founding of scouting. Kids look so terrible today in their civilian clothes and long hair. What's wrong with cleaning them up a bit and have them wear a uniform? It also shows their brotherhood to other scouts and to scouts from the one hundred year tradition. The dirty little secret in scouting that we don't want to mention is that many boys are embarrassed by being in scouting, and do not want their peers to see them in the uniform. This is not good. But maybe pride has to be earned. At least a Marine might think so. Pappy (This message has been edited by Pappy)(This message has been edited by Pappy)