Gold Winger

What would that movie be like if made today?

Lem would have to be cast as an idiot because in too many movies and TV shows revolving around kids today the adults are idiots, especially the men. So maybe Lem would be a woman, possibly a woman with a secret "life companion." The ASM would probably be lurking around trying to catch glimpses of either Lem (the woman) or the boys in the shower.

Someone would come out of the closet. Someone would knock-up his girl friend. There would have to be at least one abusive parent.

Oh yeah, there would have to be a steamy sex scene.

And people wonder why I don't go to the movies anymore.

Lem, you have a few valid points but you're missing the mark elsewhere.

You don't know what sort of Training Lem in the movie would have had to have taken. Lem taking training wouldn't have been good cinema.

99%, okay, let's 95% of the problems with Boy Scouts today are reflected elsewhere in society. Failure? No one is allowed to fail today. At some schools, if you get an F as a final grade, they record it as an incomplete. Not make the team? Nooooo, everyone makes the team today. In Scouting that's reflected as "what do you mean you expect my son to pitch a tent? He's only 11." or "I know he didn't go on the campout but he had a soccer game, could he sleep in our back yard and you count that. No? That's not fair."

Lem would have fallen under the "creepy" category of one poster because he didn't have boys in the troop. I strongly believe that coming into Scouting because your son joined is weakening the delivery of the program. The SM and CC (or ASM or MC) who have kids in the program usually have an agenda revolving around their kids. Also being parents, they don't want to see their children fail so they wind up taking charge. Then the whole thing starts to slide downhill.

Throw in a big dose of "I really don't want to be here" with many of the boys and you aren't going to have "esprit de corps." They're just there on Tuesday nights because their parents made them. Patrol competitions, yells, etc. make no never mind to them because THEY DON'T WANT TO BE THERE.

Where do they want to be? Playing video games.

Lem, look around you. The suburban or even urban child of our youth and before is long gone. Kids are under continual supervision today, especially when young. The only kids that aren't supervised today are the bad eggs, the ones out roaming the streets at 2 AM on a school night because their parents don't give a hoot.

Think about it. A kid today gets up and goes to before school care, then off to school, then after school care, finally to home to gobble a quick dinner and then off to karate, soccer, chorus, Scouts, church school, etc. and finally home to be. Where's the free time to build go-karts, tree-forts, dig big holes, or just watch the clouds float by?

Is it any wonder that kids today make stupid choices the first chance that they have? Drinking excessively. Sex? One young woman that I know told me that her goal on spring break was to have sex with as many guys as she could. She wants to be a teacher and is a dean's list student but HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE?

So back to Scouting. In today's world where no one will allow their child to fail where does that leave Scouting?

In my perfect world, the Scoutmaster and most of the committee would have no children in the unit. They'd want to see the unit succeed for the sake of all of the children and not just their own.

That's where the Lems of the world come from. They aren't looking out for their child, they're looking out for all of the children.

I'll end this by saying I know that someone or a few will pipe up and say, "Hey, I don't do that" but, come on admit it, you're in the minority. We're all in the minority because we come here and discuss how things are done, should be done and could be done. There's what, a million Scouters out there? How many participate on this or any other forum? Thousands may be registered but only a few particiapte on a regualar basis.

Look at all the other opportunities for learning that Scouters have and ignore. What would Roundtable be like if every unit Scouter came? How about UoS?

Last year a district that I was working with promulgated a rule that all "direct contact" Scouters must be "trained" by the next recharter time. At the roundtable where this was announced, one CM stood up and said, "My den leaders won't stand for that and they'll quit." Why? Why wouldn't you want to know the WHAT, HOW and WHY of your job?

I'm starting to ramble so I'll quit now.

They used to make the campaign hats in different ovals to fit different head but that's gone by the wayside.

I have a few good hats, my campaign hat, a couple Stetson, a nice Panama.

Steam is the secret to getting a hat to fit properly, either that or wear it for a long time in hot weather.

Shellac is used on Stetsons to make them stiff, steam will soften it. Put a big pot of water on the stove to boil. Walk away and it will be boiling, stay in the kitchen and it never will. Next, hold your hat rightside up over the steam, to catch the steam in the hat. The felt will soften and then, while it is still hot, put it on and wear it for a while until it it thoroughly cooled. Repeat as needed.

Now that the crown fits, you might find that the brim is no loger flat. Mine looks like a WW I campaign hat, pulled down in front and back. I like that. If you want your brim flat, buy or make a hat press.

Nah BeeDubya, we all thought that it was a documentary, kinda like an early Michael Moore film.

I'm not a fan of the Kyoto treaty because it penalizes us who have actually been doing something to clean up the air and water. However, the fact that glaciers that are millenaia old are disappearing and the ice caps are shrinking does say that there is a problem.

The biggest problem is cost of fixing the problem. We took decades to get into this mess and we can't fix it over night. Electric cars? I'd love to have an electric car but I can't afford to scrap my Detroit iron to buy one right now.

Waste water? There are systems out there to capture water from shower drains and use it for toilet flushing. That would be great, might save me a few hundred gallons a month but the cost of installing one is insane.

The first step should be to get the developing countries (can you say China) to clean up their acts. It would far less expensive to build clean in someplace that doesn't have old factories and housing developments that are 100 years old. However, the whiners say that would be unfair.

"Is America making Lems and Whiteys anymore? I think yes. America always has. Just like it continues to make boys in the mold of Johnny Tremains and Huck Finns and Sergeant Yorks Jeff"

Nah, don't think so. I don't see kids adventuing on their own anymore, even if it is just exploring the woods behind their house. No more rafting down the river. No exploring caves. It's all video games, play dates, and soccer (bleh!) leagues.

Much of Scouting maybe a bunch of middle aged guys with dutch ovens but what is it that boys want today? Adventure? Excitement? Exploration? Nah.

Look at the heroes of youth in days gone by, fictional and factual. Robin Hood, Dan'l Boone, Davey Crockett, Admiral Byrd, Ivanhoe, Perry, Tom Swift, the Hardy Boys. Do kids even have heroes today? Rappers, rock stars, and 1st person shooter games.

Bah . . . I'm know, I'm just a quickly aging cynic.

"yet feel its OK to modify the BSA uniform? Why is that?"

Could be a couple things.

1) They're ex-military and they know that the Army was has to be the right way.

2) It doesn't matter if you modify the BSA uniform because it is only Scouts and not something important like sports.

"He only deals with Navy & Marines."

What do you think that Gunny is?

Unit flags designs are fixed in design by BSA rules. The rules are in the back of the insignia guide.

For descriptions go to http://www.scouting.org/media/insigniaguide/11.aspx

The order form is at http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/70-381.pdf

Don't you now have an obligation to report these illegal orders to Mark Harmon? :-)

I had one Alps pack, I forget the name but it didn't adjust to my size so I went looking for another. I went to the local outfitter and tried the Denali and the Cascade. I thought that I'd live the Denali because I'm a pockets guy too. I really didn't care for the way the pockets stuck out and there was something else about the pack that scratched it off my list.

The Cascade worked fine for me. The two pockets on the front are large enough to hold my meds, my snacks, my ditty bag of spare batteries, sewing kit and first aid. Into the top pocket went my rain suit, cup and spoon, zip lock bag of TP, knit hat. I can't recall ever saying "Gee I wish that I had an extra pocket."

Stand by for a lecture of Scouting procedures.

There is no voting on appointments in a Scout unit. The Committee Chair is selected by the Charter Org Rep and everyone else serves at their pleasure.

If there are severe issues with one of the adults, that really needs to be addressed by the Committee Chair and if the CC is willing to do it, the Unit Commissioner and the COR should be brought into the loop.

Most of us do our fair share of gossiping (Eamonn and BeeDubya excepted) but when it interferes with the running of the unit, something has to be done.

If you have someone trying to stage a coup, then that needs to be addressed by a conversation with the COR.

Just my thoughts at 1 AM.

Different issues. First class is about basic skills.

I wasn't there but "Like I'm gonna stab you?" would be a dismissive statement, one that indicates that stabbing him could only be the act of a moron.

For the other issue, bring it up to the mother first. Make it clear that if this continues, her son will be welcome to find a new den. Nothing says that we have to accept all comers. Nothing says that in our efforts to save one boy we should ruin the experience for the other boys. We aren't there to save everyone, we're there to help those who want to be part of the program.

There's a reason that historically mothers took care of the children, they're better qualified.

Unusual but legal. :-)

There would be two reasons that a Scout would think that the swim test is stupid: he's such a good swimmer that it is inconcievable to him that anyone else might not swim well or he can't swim well and is embarassed by it.

Gunny, it doesn't imply anyhing, it states explicitly that people in uniform (which would include the Scouts) should not say the pledge. Can they? Yes. Should they? No. The difference? Can I dance a jig on I-270 during rush hour? Yes. Should I? No.

The Congress of these United States decided that people in uniform, should not say the pledge unless they are out of uniform. Who are we to second guess them and disobey that law?

Who is a person in a uniform? I'd hazard a guess that since it is a federal law, the uniforms in question would be federally mandated uniforms such as the military and the Boys Scouts. Yep, the Boy Scouts uniform is recognized by federal law. Police and firefighters? Not sure about that.

Perhaps there is a directive from the President directing us to say the pledge while in uniform but until I see that I'm going to just salute and keep my mouth shut.

That movie was set back in the days when Scout was SCOUTING. Common sense ruled, continual supervision was not considered a good thing.

At Philmont last year I saw a bus from a Pittsburgh troop.

I know of a few troops that are chartered by churches that use the church bus.

All the belt loops are silly. They're just recognition for doing things that kids used to do on their own.

No formal badge that I know of but "Polar Bear" patches are available at many Scout shops. I don't know who came up with the requirements but we used the guideline that if it went below freezing at night, you got the Polar Bear.

You're right, it isn't the fault of the kids. It is the fault of the whole village.

Even moms who don't need to work, work for personal satisfaction and leave their children in daycare which isn't a good environment for exploring boundaries.

Parents use the TV as a baby sitter.

Video games have little or no restrictions on them.

Play dates. Years back my son was asked to come over to a friend's house from 1 to 3 PM. Why the restrictions? Because another friend was coming over for the 3-5 slot and he couldn't have two friends there at once. A friend told me that her daughter used to just go next door and knock to see if her friend could come out. The neighbor mom called and said that wasn't acceptable because they might have plans and didn't want to have to tell the little girl "sorry, she can't come out."

Parents want to structure the heck out of every activity to the point that far too many kids don't even realize that there is a box, let alone think outside of it.

Back to video games. I think that for far too many kids, unbridled access to video games has basically ruined their childhoods.

Well said Mr. Rowe. Of course, when I said similar things to my son my wife smacked me with a frying pan and said that I was being negative as well as not being supportive.

Gunny, here's the quote from the flag code:

TITLE 4, CHAPTER 1

4. Pledge of allegiance to the flag; manner of delivery

. . . When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.

Since the Scouting uniform is recognized by the US Code as a uniform, we should simply face the flag and salute.