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ghjim

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Everything posted by ghjim

  1. I agree in that the 2.4% don't have that much impact on the "rest" The "rest" aren't all religious fanatics. There are a huge number of Christians who want separation of church and state.
  2. Has there ever been a time in scouting when the "local option" was not in effect? Not during my day as a scout.
  3. This is red herring. The key point today is that BSA troops are not required to discriminate against gay youth. If there are still some troops who choose to do so (in violation of BSA membership rules today) I doubt it will raise the ruckus we just went through. Let them keep out gay youth if they want. What openly gay youth would want to be in that troop anyway when there are plenty with open arms.
  4. I have no doubt that George Zimmerman was being badly beaten. I am certain that is his voice screaming in the 911 recording. I also don't see anything very racial with this case. Didn't Trayvon Martin's mother say the same thing? I really thing George Zimmerman confronted Trayvon Martin and not the other way around. When the confrontation got out of hand he shot Trayvon.
  5. Nonsense. There is no evidence that Trayvon Martin confronted George Zimmerman at all. George Zimmerman produced a story that Trayvon first ran away, then in a split second changed his mind and attacked Zimmerman unprovoked, with intent to kill. This is not believable. The girlfriend story is much more believable. I think George Zimmerman confronted Trayvon Martin, and possibly grabbed him. The situation backfired and he was soon fighting, perhaps for his life. Zimmerman got off because there was no witness to what caused the fight. I also agree with other posters that the prosecutio
  6. Isn't that the point that was made in the book "Future Shock" by Alvin Toffler.
  7. I have never understood this either. The religious in America view themselves as persecuted when they can't appoint or award themselves authority over others.
  8. My left-leaning take on the whole issue going on is that conservative groups within the USA, still reeling from all of the changes that occurred in the 1960s, have made slow organized efforts to gain control of American institutions. Such groups are successfully taking control of my current employer, a major aerospace company. They had a major champion for eight years during the Bush administration. For a generation they have successfully dominated the BSA. What we are now seeing is a backlash, or if you prefer, a pendulum swing. Failing to take dominate the GSUSA, the far right org
  9. I and a whole lot of other people openly advocated the local option. It seemed to make sense to me. Conservative groups can be exclusive but they can't make everybody be that way. But the survey indicated that a majority of the membership on both sides of the argument did not want the local option. Given that I have to be supportive of National taking that option off the table.
  10. I wonder if the BSA will try to stop BPSA in the U.S. in the event that it starts to grow. They have done that before with other scouting programs.
  11. BPUSA is much bigger world-wide. Just starting up in the US.
  12. I am not stating I always knew my sexual orientation to be funny or out of any fear of being thought of as gay. For me it is literally true. When gay people tell me they always knew it makes perfect sense to me. That is why I have always thought the right-wing view that people are choosing their orientation is ignorant. But maybe there are people who do have trouble deciding and try out both lifestyles. If so no such person has ever told me that.
  13. Here are some interesting comments from the American Psychological Association: "...no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation." "All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at
  14. Did the Savin-Williams study involve people who declared themselves to be bisexual? I do believe those types of people often settle into either a heterosexual or homosexual lifestyle at some point in their life. I can see such a person eventually driven to a heterosexual lifestyle by societal, family or religious pressure. But every single gay person I know (more than a few) have told me they always knew they were gay, there was never any doubt. Which has always made sense to me as I always knew I wasn't.
  15. Your analysis sounds reasonable to me. Since few of the more liberal membership (the majority?) have left over the current membership policy it is doubtful they will leave over this. And they have been thrown a bone and don't have to kick out the gay scouts anymore (at least until they are 18). It has been mentioned on this forum that National is now in a no-win position. There is no solution that will satisfy a majority. This proposal probably will result in the fewest number of people pulling out. If the youth membership continues to think as this survey suggests, then the
  16. "While a majority of adults in the Scouting community support BSA's current policy......" "Views among parents under the age of 50 have changed significantly ... with a majority now opposing the BSA's current policy" "Among general population teens and Boy Scouts and Venturers alike, a majority oppose ... the current membership policy". Who exactly are the "majority of adults" who support the current policy? Old Goat Patrol is right. Looks to me like we have a conservative minority trying to control everyone.
  17. These statistics are different from what we had heard earlier from Lodge 489, that two thirds of the councils opposed the current membership policy.
  18. Far be it from me to defend the BSA's membership policies. However I will point out that the BSA is indeed a private religious organization. This is a big change from the days I was a Boy Scout in the 1960s. It was my understanding that this declaration was the defensive move the BSA pulled out of it's hip pocket during the Dale vs. the BSA Supreme Court decision. This is what made the court sway in the direction of the BSA, because religious organizations have the right to be selective in their membership.
  19. Well that's the lovely thing about membership organizations, you can always leave and start your own if you want or find another that fits your belief system. If I don't like AARP I can find another senior's group to belong to. Don't like my college because they encourage anti-conservative or liberal values? I can find myself a college that fits my belief system without forcing the obvious majority of people at said college to conform to mine. I will also add here that your implication the "obvious majority" of BSA volunteers and members are having an more open membership policy forced upon t
  20. Well that's the lovely thing about membership organizations, you can always leave and start your own if you want or find another that fits your belief system. If I don't like AARP I can find another senior's group to belong to. Don't like my college because they encourage anti-conservative or liberal values? I can find myself a college that fits my belief system without forcing the obvious majority of people at said college to conform to mine. This subject has been argued on this forum before, but I will mention that the BSA has used it's congressional charter to block competing organizations
  21. No, not really. Every time I introduce my wife, I'm introducing my wife. I'm not telling anyone anything about my sexuality. Sometimes a wife is just a wife. You say "...gay leaders want the same freedom to get dropped off at an event by their partner..." how would "don't ask, don't tell" impact that? It wouldn't. Let's be honest with one another here for a moment - we've had gay leaders in Scouting for as long as we've had Scouting. And I'm sure that "gay leaders have been dropped off at events by their partners" from time to time. And maybe even those inclined to wonder why Mr. Jones
  22. I thought the Linked-In poll was a bit of an anomoly compared to most of what I've be seeing on the internet. Even the comments posted to the poll generally reflect more interest in the local option. Keep in mind that this particular group I've cited is not made up of youth, but adults who in the past have received the Eagle Award (following the tradition of "once an Eagle, always an Eagle."). The members may or may not still be active in Scouting. I guess the point I'm trying to make, is that most of the noise seems focused on inclusion and the highly touted local option. If I had to bet,
  23. So if I am understanding many of the posts here in recent days, each council is going to get a number of votes consistent with the size of their membership (seems like the US Electoral College). Therefore it will be really interesting to see how the vote comes out in May. That may be the first time we see what today's BSA volunteer membership really wants.
  24. But do the "vast majority" of parents the BSA "serves" approve of a membership policy that requires every troop and pack to exclude gays and athiests? Sure doesn't look like it does it? I have said before I think it has always been this way. The majority of BSA adult volunteers and parents don't like this policy. And this after years of these people leaving the BSA, some forced out, because of this membership policy.
  25. I think the national survey is the most exciting thing I have watched the BSA do for years now. For the first time, maybe in decades, National is trying to find out what the BSA members really want. No more secret groups doing investigations and making policy.
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