gcnphkr

Out here in LDS country the LDS units generally bug out Saturday night after the campfire. The traditional units generally have a Scout's Own service of some kind that each unit is welcome to join. Some units have their own services. Some just bug out.

I'm not sure how you can require a scout to stay at a camporee instead of leaving to go to his church's service. I guess by location, a unit can make it very inconvient for a scout to leave.

Our troop always camps through Sunday. If a scout wants to leave early to go to church his parents are free to come and get him.

I do no such thing.

He is recognized the night of his BOR.

He receives his rank patch an the meeting following his BOR. I bring this with me to every meeting until he is there to get it. I've carried them for months.

He is recognized again at the COH even if he is not there.

He can get his merit badges or temporary patches any time he wants by calling the advancement chair and making arrangements.

How am I punishing him?

Every scout and situation is different. Every unit is different as well. Things that may work in a unit with twelve scouts may not work in a unit with fifty or a hundred. The dynamics in a LDS unit are different from a traditional unit. Making blanket statements that any particular method is "foolish" or "childish" makes a number of assumptions that possibly were not well thought out. Certainly claims that things are "doomed to failure" when they are being done in what appears to be a thriving unit are ill advised. Unless what the person is doing is unsafe or against policy, it might be more helpful to restrict comments to what works for you rather than what you think the other guy is doing wrong.

"YM know that you are there for them and that you support them in all their activities"

And exactly, how is it that this requires that the advancement chair has to haul the scout's awards to each meeting? Why is it important to support the scout but not to support the adult volunteer? Perhaps we should drive to the scout's house and hand deliver it to him. That would be supportive wouldn't it? Or perhaps the best support I can give is to help him deal with the decisions that he needs to make.

Life is a series of choices. Most of the time the choices are not between good or bad, or good and better, they are just choices. When I make a choice that impacts other people I should deal with it in a way that minimized the impact on them. That is being courteous. So, as a scout, when I choose not to go to a COH, for whatever reason, I make the choice realizing that I will not receive my awards at that COH. Now I can also choose to do a number of other things. I can ask a friend to get my awards for me. I can contact the Advancement Chair and arrange to pick them up. I can tell him that I won't be able to be at the next couple of meetings but that I will be there on the first meeting in October and would it be possible for him to bring it then. If he agrees then I will call him a day or two prior to the meeting to remind him. I can decide it is not that important and I can wait until the next COH. Or I can throw up my hands in frustration because those mean adults don't make sure that I don't have to make any real decisions and are not there jumping at my every whim.

Now none of those earlier options are unduly burdensome on the scout. Certainly not for a scout old enough to decide to be in band or on the football team. For some reason, there seem to be people out there that expect that the last is the option we should be ready for and cater to it. I personally don't see how doing that serves the scout.

I'd love to hear of a good MB presentation. All we ever do is call the scout up, read off the merit badges, hand them the badges and give them a hand. It seems very dull, especially if it follows a good ceremony in recognizing the ranks.

On that line. At COHs, do you recognize the ranks before the merit badges.

"Belive it or not YM have a life other than scouts so we need to give the some slack if we want them to stay involved."

I disagree. When shown by your actions that Scouting is not important and that you will make it as accommodating as possible then you make it less desirable to them. When you set the value of Scouting high by your expectations then you make it more desirable.

Eagle92,

Yes. They are courses for credit here as well. But the scout still makes a choice to take that class knowing that he would be missing troop meetings, including COHs. That is fine. I've no problem with them doing that. I might even go to a game and watch them, recognize them when the get First Chair, Team Captain, etc.

Scouts will ask me, "Is it okay if I miss the meeting because of [activity]?" I tell them, "It isn't a matter of being 'okay', it is a matter of what is important to you and only you can make that call."

If a boy asked the coach if he could miss a practice and the coach told him, "If you miss you will not be starting", no one would think the coach was being unfair. But if I tell the scout, "Okay, but you'll either have to make other arrangements or wait three months until the next Court of Honor to get your patches", then somehow I'm being unreasonable or unfair. Sorry, I don't buy that.

"Unless there was a very good reason to have missed (neither band nor football practice count as good reasons), they can wait until the next COH."

--Why aren't those good reasons? Sorry, I don't follow your logic at all.

Why would they be good reasons? They are simply choices that the scout must make. They only have the importance that the scout and the leader places on them. Would the band director or the coach give the scout an excused absence if they missed practice for the COH? Why should I think less of the COH? I do not believe that scouting is any more or any less important than any other voluntary, extra curricular activity. Would you do they same if he had joined a bowling league, went to a "Magic, the Gathering" tournament or just wanted to stay home and watch Monday Night Football? If not, then why not?

When you tell a scout that it is okay to miss the COH because you will just recognize him the next time they choose to come to a meeting, you teach him that it is okay to be discourteous. You teach him that his desires are more important than honoring his fellow scouts and more important than the troop and advancement chair's time. You teach him that being loyal and courteous and by extension the entire Scout Law is only for when it is convenient.

The scout is not being penalized. He has his rank. He has his badge. If he really wants the cards and the other patches he can make arrangements to pick them up.

We give the rank badges at the meeting after their BOR. We present the merit badges, advancement cards and temporary patches at the COH. If they don't come to the COH the scout is still recognized but everything gets packed away until the next one. We also expect the scout to be in their field uniform.

I'm not sure why we wait on the merit badges. I don't see doing it every week, but I could see doing it once a month with the rank badges.

Temporary patches, especially with rockers, are a pain. No matter when we give them they get left. At least at the COH mom has a chance to snag them.

It is important to be at the COH. Not just to recieve your award but, just as important, to honor the others as well. Unless there was a very good reason to have missed (neither band nor football practice count as good reasons), they can wait until the next COH. If the award was not important enough for them to come to the COH to recieve then it is not important enough to lug the award around to give to them when they feel like showing up.

We use some district counselors, mostly scouts finishing things up from merit badge round up. Quality is variable. In general, the district counselors are untrained. Given a choice I'll send a scout to a counselor I know before I'll send one that I don't know.

I've had issues with some district counselors giving out bad information, mostly very incorrect information. For example, one, an assistant district commissioner, that was a counselor for one of the citizenship MBs that the scout could go on a bike trip with his family and it would qualify for the 9b Camping MB requirement.

Unless I am very certain of the counselor, I will never send a scout to an LDS counselor. Far too many view "requirements" as "ideas", "guidelines" would be generous and overly optimistic.

Thank you. I thought that might be it but hadn't been able to locate it to be sure. I'm surprised it was not a restricted item. I'll have to find the thread.

My COR bought this for me down at council. They thought it was for one of the awards of merit but were not sure which one. Does anyone know? The patch has a gold mylar border and a large gold mylar star between "Scoutmaster" and the Tenderfoot emblem.

The product code on the back is

01/10 40159458(This message has been edited by jet526)

"No where is it stated the completed form is to be held until all the other requirements are met"

It is not stated that it should be turned in ASAP regardless of the boy's eligability. If the boy was not yet 10 years old would you still turn in the application? What if they were not willing to live by the Oath and Law? Which of these requirements are optional? They are joining REQUIREMENTS, not "things it would be nice for you to do after you join, when you get around to it". Just because troops treat it that way doesn't make it right.

Of the one difficult requirement the pamphlet states: "Youth Protection Joining Requirement: For your son to join a Boy Scout troop, he must complete the exercises included in Section II of this pamphlet."

"As soon as the registration form is turned in, the boy is no longer a WEBELOS, he is a Boy Scout."

If you mean "As soon as the registration form is turned into council" then you would be correct. The unit leader should not sign or submit the application until all the requirements have been competed. Making an exception of completing the pamphlet or agreeing to live by the Scout Oath and Law is no different then making an exception for a 9 year old. Knowingly or not, the unit leader is saying that the scout has met all the joining requirements.

"Once upon a time, if memory serves, a CS who received AOL automatically got Scout AND had the 2 months as a scout requirement waived for Tenderfoot."

My Webelos Award card (Which was what the AOL was called back then) is dated the day before the date on my Tenderfoot card.

"The Scout Badge requirements are to be done as a Boy Scout, not a Cub Scout."

They are JOINING requirements that are done BEFORE he becomes a Boy Scout. The Scout Badge shows that he is a Boy Scout and he is not a Boy Scout until they are complete. The boy will be a Webelos until they are compete or his registration expires. While the AOL does not meet all the joining requirements, the remaining ones are trivial.

If I could get the parents to all read the pamphet with their boy and turn in the application before crossover I would be happy to give them their Scout Badge at crossover. Unfortunately this generally takes a few weeks.

I fail to see how requiring untrained-adults-that-don't-want-anything-to-do-with-scouting-but-are-submitting-to-their-bishop's-whim would have prevented the Beaver River Scout Camp fire. Indeed, it is a great example of what happens when you have a bunch of boys that have been nurse maided by untrained-adults-that-don't-want-anything-to-do-with-scouting-but-are-submitting-to-their-bishop's-whim.

My son (Chapter Chief) were talking about this yesterday. He says that if someone has to wear one that it should be on a jacket. This then led to a discussion on why it is that Advisors are the WORST about having unauthorized items on their sashes.

Check with your council. There will be someone who checks each application before sending it to National. They will know exactly how to count dates.

Our council's instructions for the Eagle packet states: "It is BSA practice to assume all months have 30 days for calculationg(sic) rank advancement and leadership requirements".

Scout is not a rank. So there are six Boy Scout ranks and only ten from Tiger to Eagle.

jhankin: "To do your monthly visits to 3 units, attend a commissioners meeting once a month, and be available to the unit for phone calls, emails and maybe attend 1 outing for each unit a quarter..."

Of course the real world seems to be visit each unit every 6 months to a year. Occasionally go to a roundtable and never, ever attend an outing, unit or district.

@ Lisabob

This is jet526's son. I went to NAYLE in 2008 and it was, and is the defining point in my leadership education within the BSA. During my week of NAYLE, I was responsible for traveling by plane, on my own(a feat any 14 yr old can be proud of), making friends with a group of boys from all over(one youth was from the Far East Council!), and many other things. The program was extremely beneficial to my character, and to my understanding of team dynamics. My patrol was a group of guys in many walks of life, but by the end of our "storming" period, we were quite the team. I still maintain contacts with one of the boys in my patrol. The staff was very experienced, and very influential. Each of the staff members went out of thier way to learn about me, and the other boys. The entire troop functioned quite well. I would strongly recommend the program if for no other reason that, in my experience, it is a very powerful experience, which lends itself to maturity.

As far as the program was concerned, the entire program is set up to take the skills we learned in NYLT and put them into real life situations, COPE, backpacking, geocacheing, making a Skit, learning about scouting history, teaching others, and even some other odd little skills that I don't want to spoil.

The week after I went to NAYLE, I staffed NYLT. I was able to form a connection to my patrol that I feel without NAYLE, I never would have been able to form. It let me take a step back, and guide them when that was what they needed, not when I was frustrated with their progress.

If I were to sum up my NAYLE experience, into one coherent statement, I would say, "Of all the things I did at NAYLE, the one thing I hope I never forget is that He who serves his fellows, is of all his fellows, greatest."

My son really enjoyed it and recommends it to others.

It is hard to say how much he grew because of it, as he also worked as a CIT at camp and was a Troop Guide for NYLT that summer.

"One thing that it deosn't do well though is Scout accounts."

What? To my knowledge we've not had any issues with it handling Scout accounts.