gcnphkr

I'd bet that a large number of returning arrowmen's reintroduction went like this. They put on their old lodge flap onto their new uniform. The went up to an OA booth at a Scout-O-Rama or camporee. There was a silverback or patch collector that noticed the old patch. He says, "I see you used to be in Scalawag Lodge." [insert discussion about the good old days] "You should pay your dues and get involved again. Here is the form and it is $10 for dues this year." I'll be surprised if the lodge will ask for proof beyond "On my honor".

A woggle is a form of turk's head. When used as a slide for a necker you call it a woggle.

A turk's head can have any number of bights, leads and strands. Almost anyway, there is a mathematical relation between the three. The number of wraps doesn't matter.

I used to be a Beaver

A good ol' Beaver too,

But now I'm finished Beavering

I don't know what to do.

I'm growing old and feeble

And I can Beaver no more

So I'm going to work my ticket if I can.

WE4-10-1-09

Give me some tail!

We generally travel in class b. But after arriving at camp and getting ready for inspection and finding that one scout did not have his shirt, we will likely change that. Fortunately the local scout shop had a returned ODL that happened to be the right size.

evmori: 'there is no such thing as a "backup POR"'

There is such a thing. Although they are not backups.

"serve actively [N] months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility"

There is nothing to prevent a scout from holding multiple PORs at the same time. Even under terms of "If they don't do a good job they don't get credit" a scout could be successful at one and unsuccessful at an other. On any given month they would only get credit for one month of serve. If he did the job as Bugler then he should get credit for Buglar. If he did the job of Buglar for 3 months and only managed to get it together for one month on the Patrol Leader as long as it was a different month from the 3 as Buglar then he has meet the requirement.

Its is your ceremony so enjoy it as you want.

But it may me more important to the scouts than you think. Think of one of the other adults in the unit being beaded, would you like to have it done publically for them? I sure would and would feel a bit cheated if they didn't.

Besides, who could pass up on an opportunity to sing "Back to Gilwell"?

While reluctant to further hijack this thread.

Regarding the POR. If a scout is in a position and is left in the position by the SM, SPL or Patrol (depending on the position) then he has meet the requirement. This is even if he did a piss poor job. The requirement says "serve actively" not "serve effectively" or "successfully fulfill the duties". If the SM, SPL or Patrol does not remove him from office then shame on them.

The discussion is appropriate in the BOR, not to disallow the credit but to provide feedback to the SM on the program.(This message has been edited by jet526)

If the scout is the project manager on a website development project and is managing a design team then factors like maintenance, domain registration renewal, etc. would be part of the project and should be included. Not that he has to maintain it himself, but the provision should be built into the project.

But there are a lot of websites that are one man shows. I don't see how that would qualify.

evmori: "This is why I don't like web sites being built as Eagle projects."

My first would be: How are you demonstrating leadership?

LOL. That is too funny. I'll need to add it.

If you went on a campout just to watch your scout be the acting SPL, you might be a helicopter parent.

--------------------because I can---------------------

If you edited your scout's Eagle Project Workbook, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you went to your scout's ordeal, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you nominated your scout for the Vigil Honor, you might be a helicopter parent.

If the Council Registrar is on speed dial, you might be a helicopter parent. (Okay, that one is just made up).

(This message has been edited by jet526)

Kudu, these are for you:

If you will not let your scout go on campout where the nearest adult is 300 feet away, you might be a helicopter parent.

If the thought of your scout going on a hike with no adult supervision causes you to faint, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you think there should be two adults present at a patrol meeting, you might be a helicopter parent.

If think your scout should listen to someone read out of a merit badge book at troop meetings, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you think it is your scout's turn to be a patrol leader, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you think your scout should be the SPL because he went to NYLT, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you think setting up a box for a canned food drive at church demonstrates leadership, you might be a helicopter parent.

Way too easy.

If your still pack your scout's backpack, you might be a helicopter parent.

If your scout has never camped without you, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you insist that you scout carry his cell phone with him at all activities, you might be a helicopter parent.

If your scout has ever called asking you to come get him from camp and you did, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you have ever slept in the same tent as your scout on a Boy Scout campout, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you have ever cleaned your scout's mess kit or patrol grub box, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you have ever tried to convince a merit badge counselor that your scout's riding his bike one afternoon should count towards his Camping Merit Badge, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you can tie all six required knots but your First Class Scout can't, you might be a helicopter parent.

If you have more hours in on your scout's Eagle Project then he does, you might be a helicopter parent.

This is kinda fun.

I wouldn't call him a helicopter parent. I tend to associate that with parents that come to campouts, hang out at troop/patrol meetings and generally get in the way. I have actually only met him once at a single meeting that he was at. The boys are dropped off and picked up without parents coming in.

He does seem a bit pushy on advancement. I have a talk with him about it.

Going to play devil's advocate for a moment.

Why would a patrol hike on any other day count as a patrol activity but if done during a campout or at summer camp it would not count? The scouts are doing the same thing in both cases. They need to plan the hike, get ready to go and execute the hike. Why one and not the other?

I think your interpretation is correct.

Eagle92: "via troop transpo"

I look at an activity as an instance of being away from home. The first activity doesn't end until they've gone home.

skeptic: "I do, personally, count additional summer camps as two camping days towards the camping merit badge and OA just like a long weekend camp."

Never thought of that. It does seem a bit unfair not to count those weeks at all. I do have a couple of scouts that for the most part only go to summer camps. One has 40 nights of camping but 30 of those are at 5 summer camps so he only has 17 qualifying nights after 2.5 years.

(This message has been edited by jet526)

Second Class 3a: Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight.

First Class 3: Since joining, have participated in ten separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. Demonstrate the principles of Leave No Trace on these outings.

So what do you consider a separate troop/patrol activity? Say the scout going to summer camp. He goes on a hike, does an orienteering course and attends two campfires. He works on five merit badges. He participates with his patrol at camp wide games, does the night swim and the mile run(walk). He did KP at the mess hall with the troop. So, how many of those activities do you count? What is your reasoning?

bacchus: "I still don't know where the attitude comes that boys need to hold off advancement until a certain age"

It has nothing to do with age. For Second Class a scout has gone on 5 separate activities. For First Class there are another 5. They don't all need to be separate campouts, they could be a day hike, or a visit to a museum. But they are troop or patrol activities. And at least three must including camping overnight. In a perfect world they have learned to help plan the activity. They have done at least some preparation. They've made mistakes and hopefully learned somethings. Back in the "good old days" a First Class scouts was capable of leading group of scouts on a hike, not because it was a requirement but they had enough experience to do it.

The only way that I can see that they accomplished this while in Utah is if the count activities at summer camp as separate activities. I have never considered counting them that way and have never know anyone else to do so. That three must include camping overnight implies that they are not all occurring on the same campout.

I'll ask again again: Are there SMs out there that count the various events at summer camp as "separate troop/patrol activities"? Maybe I need to spin that off into a separate thread.

Beavah:

"The thought that a new first year scout would finish Canoeing MB in 4 hours, let alone 2, I find laughably tragic."

I agree. The son was an instructor at camp this summer. He said that it would at least 2 hours just to test someone that was an experienced canoeist. If they picked things up quickly, they might do it in 5.

The Signaling is another one I wonder about. It is a hard merit badge. They need to learn Morris Code and Semaphore well enough that they would not be able to use a cheat sheet. The amount of practice required should use up so much time that it would be very hard to do anything else. At the minimum speeds, testing alone would run 40 minutes--if they went non-stop and got everything right.

Bacchus, I appologize to all the LDS units trying to do things right. I would be just as unhappy if this had been a traditional unit.

2CD:

Thank you.

You're right about the LDS, wouldn't accomplish anything anyway. Beyond my control at this point.

Checked in ScoutNet. For whatever reason they are not currently registered with our unit. I don't know if this is because a transfer was processed or for some reason they were never registered in the first place. I get to leave that to the CC to work out. At this point this is a straight up transfer into the unit. I will have the talks that you suggested.

They started coming to troop meetings back in March. They had never been in scouting before. It took them two months to get registered, finally turning in the application near the end of May. They left for Utah the next week when school was out, they have a summer home there. They did somethings with the troop up there, I do not know what and then returned in July for a week with the troop here. They did not bring their scout handbooks to camp with them but I had recorded the things they has completed and entered them into TroopMaster. There father called a few days later and asked his he could get a list of what the scouts had done so that he could give it to the SM in Utah. So I sent him a report from TroopMaster and that was the last I heard until the father called at the beginning of August wanting to find out about what they needed to do to finish a partial they has in the First Aid MB. I referred him to the counselor. The father called me again yesterday to tell me that the had finished everything through First Class and they were ready to start working on there Star. Today he sent me the advancement record.

I'm not angry with the scouts mind you and they will have plenty of opportunity to work on the skills. But if this is what it seems like then they will have some unrealistic expectations about what it will take to be a scout.

shortridge:

They can do those things, I know because those are things we tested them on. I don't know if they know how to swim, I assume they do, but I really don't know. I don't know a number of things.

I'm fine that I didn't have the opportunity to find those things out. But, there is enough to make me wonder if they can do those things at all or were they just pencil whipped though by a SM that won't be going camping, hiking, etc. with them for the next ten months until maybe he gets them for a week at summer camp next year.

First, not 4 months. Nine weeks in Utah with the other troop.

I understand that the historical merit badges are only available this year. I am familiar with the requirements. Although it would be a stretch, even for older scouts, do do those five in a week. Properly done it shuold take 20-30 for those five. If they were very industrious they could earn the merit badges and complete the skill requirements for T21 as there is some overlap. That still leaves the activity requirements as a mystery. Are there SMs out there that count the various events at summer camp as "separate troop/patrol activities"?

Re: "why is another SM signing of on SMCs and allowing BORs?"

Beats the heck out of me. It is really the part that bothers me. I figure, "MB mill, whatcha going to do?" and so they get their lashings signed off even if they don't know a shear lashing from a diagonal lashing. Not that big of a deal. If they had been brand new transfers, new to our troop I'd have shrugged my shoulders and gone on. Best I can tell, they did separate registrations in both troops. The other troop was aware that they were already registered with our troop but it looks like they did a second registation. I'll need to check the BSA IDs when I get home this evening to see if they are different. Their advancement has been reported to the council in Utah. But they did not receive the rank badges or cards from the other troop. I don't mind giving them the patches, but I really don't want to sign those cards. Hopefully I can get in touch with the unit and have them sent here to present to the scouts.

I have two scouts that joined the unit in May. Over the summer they went to one camp with our troop but spent the rest of the summer in Utah with an LDS unit. As far as I can tell they went to one week of camp with the LDS unit and a few troop meetings.

Their father sent me their advancement reports from Utah and I have some concerns. The main one being that in 10 weeks they competed all the requirements for T21 including all the activity requirements. They also seem to have had SMC and BORs for T21 all on August 13th. They also managed to earn the Canoeing, Pathfinding, Tracking, Signaling and Woodwork MBs. While in theory this is possible. I've never heard of an LDS unit doing 8 activities in 6 months much less in 9 weeks. I guess if you count each thing they did at camp a separate activity. I worked with them at the camp with us and they just are not that motivated.

I'm stuck with it, but if anyone wonders why I have issues with LDS units, well this is why.