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I have to go to Pittsburgh next week. I'm staying at the Sheraton Station Square Hotel. Anything to do there other than watch the boats go by?

HR departments are bound by EEOC regulations. So hiring based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin (1964), age (1967), disability (1973, 1990) and genetic information (2008) is prohibited.

Now being an Eagle could be interpreted as implying that the scout is religious or male. The later is likely known anyway. The employer can use the knowledge of the first 11 laws as factors in the hiring decision, but is prohibited from using the 12th either for or against the candidate.

"if anyone knows or has heard of a "foil dinner" recipe for pancakes or combination of them and a breakfast meat etc."

Not foil dinners. But we have cooked bacon, eggs and hash browns in paper bags. If it works in a paper bag it should work in foil. Biscuits cook fine in foil, so you might be able to do some sort of pig in the blanket.

Gary_Miller: "Happens in Non-LDS units as well."

It sure does. But I contend that it is not as common nor as severe. I know LDS leaders that admit to moments when they are just embarrassed by what is far more common than you seem willing to admit. Do you really chalk up the LDS reputation to blind bigotry and that there is no factual basis to it at all?

Gary_Miller,

You seem to believe there are no issues in LDS programs. That very well could be in your area. I'll be the first to admit that there are issues with non-LDS programs.

The organizational dynamics are such that it is very difficult to maintain a high functioning unit. A failing non-LDS unit vanishes fairly quickly, a failing LDS unit can go unnoticed and continue for years until the ward gets a bishop that cares enough to notice and take action.

Gary_Miller: "So where are the programs for LDS units and Non-LDS units not the same?"

Implementation is not always the same. Far too often those requirements are viewed as guidelines or even ideas to shoot for but that are not actually expected.

Gary_Miller: "Exactly what was the behavior that had an effect on all scouts?"

We recently shared a large dispersed camping area with a ward's father and son camp. When they left on Saturday, no effort was made to put out fires or pick up their trash. We have had to leave people in our campsites at summer camp to prevent scouts from coming into the camp and stealing from us. This was after being warned by the camp staff. This occurred in a Utah camp were we were the only non-LDS unit in camp. I have seen program directors laid into by LDS leaders for not signing off on an unearned Merit Badge. LDS leader shouting at board of review demanding that the scout be given an unearned eagle.

Gary_Miller: "While wards may have 4 different registered units. They only have one COR who sits on the district and Council Committees, and last I looked only COR were able to vote."

You are correct, the CO may only have one CR. I apologize.(This message has been edited by jet526)

Scoutfish: "So what? Who cares? Do you really care about teh why's what if's or how comes?"

As long as it doesn't effect others it wouldn't matter and I wouldn't care. But I don't think that is the case. Despite Gary_Miller's protests that it is the same program, spend some time in District Eagle Boards of Review and it becomes very obvious that they are not the same. Spend a week at camp with a number of LDS units and it is clear they are different programs. Are there good LDS units and fine LDS scouts? Certainly. But there are too many that are not and their behavior effects the reputation of all scouts.

The LDS has a disproportionate amount of authority within Scouting in comparison to the number of scouts that they have. This is simply because their units are so small, very often at the minimum. Yet that ward will have 4 votes on District and Council elections (Pack, Troop, Team and Crew) with less scouts than you will find in many non-LDS units with a single vote.

At best, it is difficult to say "No" in a hierarchical, authoritarian religious system.

Tiger is for boys in the 1st grade or 7 years old. If he completed everything before starting the 2nd grade there should be no problem. Even then he should be okay until his 8th birthday.

Start with your troop's advancement chair. She is responsible for turning in your records to the council. If it is recorded in ScoutNet them she is likely the one to do it and can check for you. She should also have the troop's portion of the blue card. That is generally not given to council. Your merit badges are reported on an advancement report. If she says you are good then don't worry about it. If there is an issue with your Eagle application she is likely the person the council registrar will contact.

If for some reason your troop does not have a record and it is not in ScoutNet then contact your merit badge counselor. He should have a record of your merit badge.

If I received your patch and the merit badge award card then you should have no worries.

During FOS we get updates on where each unit is regarding their FOS goals. Either all or nearly all the LDS units make their goal. Very few non-LDS even come close. My understanding is that the wards cover the FOS for their units.

On the other side, few if any LDS units do Popcorn Sales. I'm told that they are not allowed to do fundraisers. Generally, the non-LDS Cub packs more than make up for their FOS in popcorn sales. Last year the district did over $90K in popcorn sales so around $30K to council, I don't know the actual cut. So that leaves the non-LDS Troops and Crews that don't pull their weight.

Hakas are traditional war dances of the Maori. Other Pacific Islanders have picked it up. There are a few wards with a large number of Pacific Islanders here. The Tongans are huge and when they do their haka it is really impressive. One ward had seven leaders getting their WB beads (including the bishop). It has a large number of members from American Samoa. That was an amazing party, grass skirts and all.

I know a number of great LDS leaders that love scouting. Half the district is LDS and well over half the council.

Part of the issue is a matter of perception and sampling error. When you see a great or even typical scouter or unit you don't know if they are LDS or not and likely don't think about it. Okay, wearing orange loops or doing a haka are good clues they are probably LDS. But poor units and their leaders get noticed. 3/4 of the units in the district are LDS so 3/4 of the screw-ups will be LDS. The resulting perception is that LDS units are poor units even when that is not really the case. Most are just like any other unit. In an area with few LDS units you will tend to get the opposite.

I'm not LDS, but half the scouts in the district are. Here are a few things that I've observed. One of the weaknesses that I see in the LDS program is that they have leaders that may be willing, but don't really want to be in scouts. Everyone they know feels the same way. Scouting is at best a duty and sometimes a burden for them, even for the scouts. The best way to overcome this is to be around people that love scouting. More than half of my Wood Badge Patrol was LDS and for several this was the first time they had been around scouters that actually loved scouting. They said it made a big difference in their own attitude.

It is good if Scoutmaster Specific and IOLS includes non-LDS trainers.

Go to Wood Badge, preferably one that will have a higher non-LDS participation. For example, there are weekend courses that run Thursday - Saturday or Friday - Sunday. Go with the Friday - Sunday date. Or a week long course.

Get on the district committee. At the same time don't dominate the committee or commissioner service.

Visit a traditional unit. Take your unit camping with a traditional unit.

Contact the OA Chapter Chief and have OA elections. Encourage the scouts to join the OA and be active, not just ordeals, but chapter meetings and activities as well. Form a ceremony team.

Wear the uniform properly to all activities. Never, ever, wear jeans with a scout shirt--even in "Class B".

If your district has Eagle Boards of Review then show up to introduce the Eagle candidate. When I sit on a board I shouldn't be able to tell if the scout is LDS just by looking at the candidate and the people that are not with him. It wouldn't hurt to get feedback from the board afterward.

Okay, those don't just apply to LDS units. LDS units have no monopoly on standoffish cliques, low morale, or lax attitudes about the methods of scouting.

Finally, and this should be obvious, don't proselytize.

Scoutfish

If the Quorum of the Twelve came out and officially dropped the BSA from the program it would be dropped in every ward. The LDS hierarchy makes the Catholic church look like a bunch of congregationalists. There might be individuals that joined traditional units, but no ward would ever be a chartering organization.

I suspect it would depend on how it was implemented.

As long as the decision to allow homosexual scouters was up to the unit I doubt they would leave.

We would see more LDS only summer camps, camporees and the like.

We have various fire restrictions.

First, fires only in approved fire pits or grills in developed sites.

Next, make that charcoal only, no wood burning.

Finally, gas stoves only.

It all depends on the fire danger and wind forecast. I've been camping in moderate fire conditions with a wind advisory that would only allow gas stoves. They tend to treat all fires as open fires. I suspect this is more for ease of enforcement than actual safety. Easier to say, "No wood fires" rather than "No wood fires except when you are using a screen" and then have to make sure the screen is being used. It is rare that we are gas only.

It can make meal plans a bit challenging at times. Those foil dinners may need to become a stew.

Last year an Explorer Post gave the troop few boxes of military surplus kits including flatware. Some looked like they had never been used. Enough for everyone in the troop that wanted one. The boys are just learning how to use them, most just use them as a plate/bowl for now.

I'm temped to wander by a patrol site to borrow a bit of fire and make a quick meal just to see if they start adapting.

So is this the north country equivalent of wearing socks with sandals?

"Ok we have gotten rid of the smokers and the fat people what is next on the agenda!!!"

People who wear too many knots.

People who insist on wearing their OA sash to courts of honor.

People that wear a mentor's pin on their uniform.

We are going through comparing council and troop records. About 80% correct. We now have what the council has, but we need to get our records to council. Online training was right but other training was spotty.

Not the first, just the largest. With 4 bights and 21 leads wrapped 4 times it has about 50 ft of 1/16" cord in 6 inches of staff. Think of 7 Woodbadge wiggles with twice the wraps in a single knot. Now tighten it so there is no slippage or wiggle. Lacquer would be redundant as these cords don't move.

"Has anyone ever seen a camping trip with a 'smoking area'?

Not on a troop campout. At Camporee they tend to be either buried behind the adult staff area or out in the parking lot. At summer camps it will tend to be behind the mess hall, especially if the cooking in contracted out. At the Philmont Training Center it is in the ramada in the northeast corner. People tend to stick with their unit except for the smokers. If you want to get to know scouters in other units the smoking area is a good place to go, even if you don't smoke.

I think we are down to one smoker in the troop now and he goes out to his truck. I've never seen him light up but the smell makes it obvious.

I used to be a smoker

And a good ol' smoker too

But now I just smoke brisket

Some ham and turkey too

I'll still miss my Camels

But I'm gonna clear my lungs if I can

When doing Turk's heads around something I prefer a solid braid to a kernmantle. Much easier to work with but not nearly the color selection of paracord. Needle-nose pliers are a must.

I have a 4b21 with 4 wraps on my staff. It took about 8 hours to do.

We still use 1 lb tanks. Home Depot was clearing out their 5Lb tanks last year. I think they got done to about $25. But even at that price once you added a tree and hose it was nearly $70. That buys a lot of 1 lb tanks. We figured about 3-4 years ROI and decided it wasn't worth it.

We recycle the tanks. We made a valve core remover and remove the cores to make sure they are empty with no pressure and then they are safe to recycle.