funscout

I think they forgot "a scout is thrifty!"

This is sad. In trying to please ALL minorities, the majority ends up losing out.

Although I like the idea of adding other religious symbols, instead of demolishing the whole chapel, Trevorum is right that there will always be SOMEBODY out there who feels left out.

It's odd, that I would never expect another country to cater to my religion, if I would happen to move to a non-Christian country. I would, of course, not want to be persecuted, but I certainly wouldn't expect muslim countries, for instance, to add Christian symbols to make me happy.

TBM,

I'm sorry your day camp experience was not a good one. Like others have already said, though, keep in mind that it is run completely by volunteers.

I would recommend writing down all your concerns, and thinking of ways that each situation could be improved. Then decide which ones are the most important to be changed. You could then make nice suggestions about next year's camp, but be sure to add something positive, so the director won't be put on the defensive.

Better yet, if you can help or even direct next year's camp, then you know it will be a better situation. Get your boys' ideas, too, because sometimes they have different ideas than the adults.

One thing that bothered me about my older son's first day camp experience, was that they hardly got to do anything fun on the first day. Several boys never came back the rest of the week. During bb's and archery, the boys sat through safety talks the whole session, without getting a chance to shoot. This was improved in later camps, without sacrificing safety.

I agree that Den Walkers should get at least a short talk or a list of activites/rules. My 1st year as a Den Walker, I got 2 Dads in trouble, because I sent them into the locker room to hurry the boys up. I was not a registered leader at the time, and nobody had ever told me that adults were not allowed in the same locker room as the boys.

Good Luck, and go easy on them. They might welcome your ideas and help.

If the young, single, pregnant SM had been following the Scout Oath, she would have remained "morally straight." I would not consider her to be a good role model for my boys. At every Scout meeting, my boys recite the Scout Oath and Law. They would have difficulty understanding why the SM didn't have to live up to the Scout Law. Why would the boys be motivated to live by the Scout Oath if their SM didn't think it was important?

I would respect this woman if she did the honorable thing and stepped down as SM, without having to be asked to do so. That would show the boys that she knew she had failed the Scout Oath, and it would be more appropriate for someone else to step up as leader. Stepping down would also be in her child's best interests. I can't imagine a mother choosing to spend time away from her baby when she didn't have to. As a single mother, she will have to work, which will take her away from her child. She would be doing her child a disservice to take herself away in the evenings and weekends as well. That would truly be selfish.

I agree with FScouter that it is selfish for a woman to choose to conceive a child without a father in the picture. In that case, the woman is purposely depriving her child of a father. In the case of rape or failed birth control, then the woman faces a tough decision. She can either do what is probably best for the child, and place him/her up for adoption, or she can struggle to raise the child on her own, because her maternal instincts tell her to keep the baby. All you single, widowed, or divorced parents know first hand how difficult it is to raise kids on your own. I do not advocate taking babies away only because the child is father-less, but I do feel that a two parent home is better in most cases.

My friend who lost his wife and is raising 3 boys on his own, would never have chosen to be a single Dad. He had no choice in the matter. Many of us try to give some "mother" time to his boys, but it will never make up for the loss of their own mother. My husband travels during the week, so I get a taste of single motherhood during the week. My boys have already informed us that they will choose a job that allows them to be home with their families, because it's been hard not having their Dad around full-time.

That is so disappointing! I hope the experience doesn't turn off some families who are new to scouting. I certainly hope you guys get your money back. You should ask about complimentary tickets to a ball game for all the scout families who thought they were signing up for a fun evening, but instead suffered through a loud sleepless night.

Back in December and again in February when the temperatures here in the Midwest dipped well below zero, everyone was saying, "Where is Global Warming when we need it?!" Then in April when temperatures soared close to 100 degrees, people thought, "oh no, it's Global Warming!" No, that's just weather in the Midwest. If you don't like today's weather, just wait, it'll change in a day or two!

When my own kids ask about Global Warming, I tell them that temperatures are warming up, but that throughout history there have been climate changes. I agree with all scouters that we need to follow Leave No Trace, and be good stewards of our environment. That does not mean that I believe that humans are causing Global Warming. It means that I don't want a polluted earth.

I resent the fact that this topic is political rather than scientific. If Al Gore really wants people to do as he says, then HE needs to do as he says. It is absolutely ridiculous that he expects people to believe that BUYING carbon off-sets is equal to actually DOING something to decrease carbon emmissions. I am amazed that people actually fall for his logic.

My brother in San Francisco chose to keep his kids from viewing Gore's movie when it was shown at his kids' schools. His kids were pressured by the liberal teachers, and made to feel bad about their parents' decision. My brother wanted to view the movie before his kids did, but wasn't given the chance. And of course, the school did not offer any of the science from the opposing opinion, but only offered Al Gore's opinion. Is this science or is this politics?

I do not want CFL bulbs in my house. I am very concerned about the increase in mercury levels that we are going to see when all these bulbs end up in dumps. If only people would do thorough research before coming up with ideas and forcing them on other people. The very proponents of environmentalism are doing a disservice to our environment by promoting CFL bulbs without safe, convenient ways to dispose of them. Hmmm.... this is kind of like the ruse where we were supposed to use plastic bags instead of paper, in order to save trees! Now, we aren't supposed to use plastic!

Has anybody heard about the "gag" products being advertised about how to decrease the carbon emmissions of our pets? I can't remeber what they were called, but the ads were pretty funny.

There once was a boy who joined scouting.

His parents, at first they were doubting.

They soon did succumb,

and yes, did become,

good leaders who went on each outing.

My husband was raised Catholic and I am Protestant, but our families both celebrated Easter with a ham dinner, and we continue that tradition. Maybe that's a midwestern thing?

Just like with "road rage," the anonymity of internet forums may encourage otherwise mild-mannered people to lose some of their inhibitions. We all lose our cool at times, but most people work harder at being civil when they are face-to-face or if they truly KNOW the person. As others have said, all we can do is keep trying to "Do Our Best."

So, is there a name for "internet rage" yet?

I agree that there certainly could come a time when immediate health and safety issues trump the Youth Protection rules. For non-emergency situations, however, scouts might just have to be disappointed in missing out on an activity if there aren't enough leaders.

Last weekend our troop went out to hang labelled bags on houses for Scouting for Food. One driver only had 2 boys in his vehicle, and when one of the boys was taken home by his Dad, the driver immediately called me on my cell phone, as I was closest to his location. I had room for another boy, so I took the lone scout with my other boys, rather than have a one-on-one situation with the other leader.

I know of pastors who never ride in a car alone with an unrelated female, for similar reasons. I also normally drove home our teenaged girl babysitters, not because I didn't trust my husband, but because I didn't want any opportunity for him to be falsely accused of something. Oh, for the days when we didn't have to worry about such things!!

My son has been on Ritalin since the middle of kdgn., and he's now in 5th grade. He is labelled ADHD, and although the teachers and I don't see attention problems, he definitely is hyperactive and impulsive when he's not on his meds.

Due to side effects such as lack of appetite, we do give our son "holidays" from Ritalin. He has no desire to eat lunch when he's on his meds., so we keep him off meds. on Saturdays, Sunday afternoons (after church), and in the summer (and other school breaks) when he's just going to be at home. I would never let him go on a camp-out without being on Ritalin, and I make sure he's on his meds if he goes to a birthday party, or any other situation where his impulsive/hyperactive behavior could cause problems.

One year at Day Camp, there was a boy from a different Pack who was on a Medication holiday. It was suspected that his mother took his Ritalin herself, in the summer time. The poor kid couldn't concentrate, and was constantly getting in trouble. Since I had plenty of experience with ADHD, I offered to be a Walker with his den. It took a lot of my energy to continually redirect him, but he was doing okay until I needed a bathroom break, and in the short time I was gone, he got kicked out of his den, and sent to the "office" for the rest of the day. I really felt sorry for him, because he was a good kid who just had an irresponsible parent.

Not all kids with ADD/ADHD would have wandered off like the North Carolina boy, but I imagine his impulsiveness was a factor in acting on his thoughts of being homesick and thinking he could hike, and then hitch-hike home.

My troop gives the new boys a goal of First Class in One Year, but it certainly is not expected that all boys will meet it. My older son took more than 2 years to get his First Class rank, even though most of the other boys in his patrol made it in about a year.

LisaBob,

I haven't been around this forum for quite a while, but you may remember that my older son is similar to your boy. My son is 13 and has been 1st Class for over a year. He was ready for his Star BOR 6 months after becoming 1st Class, but just didn't get around to asking for it. He tells me that he forgot to ask, or the leaders were busy.... He also isn't completing merit badges very quickly. He has missed out on high adventure trips that I would love to go on, because he doesn't have his Star rank or the required merit badges done. However, he LOVES scouts, and is having a great time.

It will be interesting to see if his younger brother motivates him, now that YB has crossed over to scouts, and has a goal of beating his older brother to Eagle!

My brother is an Eagle Scout and I would love it if both my boys make Eagle. If neither one does, it's not the end of the world, and I know they will have gotten a LOT out of scouting.

Hopefully that's a misprint where the article states that Michael stayed behind with ONE adult.

The article doesn't mention whether this is a special needs child or not. We have two new boys that our troop is going to have to keep really close watch over, because they are both "wanderers." Both boys are in special ed. and we are happy to have them in the troop, but at the same time, we leaders have to make sure that someone is keeping track of them at all times. I know this is supposed to be the other boys' responsibility, but when it comes to safety concerns, adults need to step in. One of the boys was in my Webelos den, and I expected my 2 Den Chiefs to really help me when we went on outings, but being boys themselves, my Den Chiefs couldn't be expected to maintain 100% watch over him.

I'm praying that this boy is safe and is found soon.

I was raised Presbyterian, and I don't recall anyone who fit Packsaddle's description. Our Youth Group was the most popular one in town, and every Wednesday night, we had kids from all over town, from all denominations join us. I don't think they would have shown up if we were a dark, serious, humorless bunch! I don't know of any Presbyterian bank presidents, either.

Funny, isn't it, how we all have our own perceptions. One of my friends didn't learn until she left home for college, that Catholics weren't any better than the rest of us! She said it was a real eye-opener for her.

WDL Mom,

My Council has also switched this year to Boy Scouts-only at Camporee, with a separate Webelos Woods for 1st and 2nd year Webelos. I've already been talking to my older son's troop about the fact that my den needs to attend a Boy Scout activity, and I had planned on using Camporee for that. I know we'll get something figured out, but it would have been nice to know sooner, since everybody's schedules fill up quickly, and last Spring, I had already told my Webelos 2 parents to mark their calendars for Camporee. Now I have to tell them to cross off Camporee and add Webelos Woods, along with whatever Boy Scout weekend activity we decide on.

We could use Klondike Derby, in January, as our Boy Scout activity, but that's cutting it a little too close to cross-over for me.

PeteM and Mr. Mal,

I applaud you two for coming forward with your stories about your own sons. Normally we would have heard this story from a different point of view, such as another leader saying, "SM's son pulled a knife at camp!" It shows that you truly care about your sons, since you are not excusing the behavior, but seeking how to correct the behavior, given the extra challenges (ADHD) your sons have.

As for me never hearing other parents try to excuse their kid's behavior due to ADHD... I've been thinking about that. Maybe it's the way that I dealt with the parents. I taught them from the start, that ADHD is not an excuse, but an explanantion for why some behaviors occur in their kids, but not in non-ADHD kids. I guess the parents never had a chance to pull the "excuse" with me, since I sympathized with them, but also let them know that we couldn't excuse the behavior, but needed to find ways to correct it. Also, since having an ADHD child of my own, people who know me know that I do not use it as an excuse, so I can see why they would never try to use it as an excuse with me. I guess I've been fortunate that the parents that I have dealt with have been like PeteM and Mr. Mal.

I did work in a school that had severely behavior disordered kids. Some had ADHD, some had Conduct Disorder or many combinations of disorders. Less likely than hearing these parents excuse the behavior, we saw them modelling bad behavior. Sometimes when the parents came to pick up their child they yelled, cussed, and tried to become physically abusive to their kids, because they couldn't control their own anger. We had to call the police on occasion, because of the parent's behavior. As you can imagine, many of these kids were in, or ended up in foster care. I would have preferred to have parents who needed to be taught that ADHD is not an excuse, over the parents who agreed their kids' behavior was wrong, but then continued to model bad behavior themselves.

Our Council's Boy Scout camp runs sessions only through mid-July. I never thought about it before, but it's probably because there are school districts in our area who start back to school the beginning of August.

Thanks for the clarification on finishing merit badges. I hadn't heard this policy from a leader, but from other scouts, so I guess I shouldn't have assumed they were correct. I'm tempted to let my son continue to think he only has a year from start to finish, to see if it helps him get his badges completed.

Thanks, Lisa'bob, for letting me know I'm not the only frustrated parent. And you're right about having another adult give suggestions rather than me. Maybe if he finds a buddy to do a merit badge with, they could motivate each other to complete it. Okay, back to biting my tongue!

Are there BSA guidelines, or does each troop make it's own guidelines? My son is not self-motivated, and is slow to finish merit badges. Two badges that he started LAST summer at camp are still unfinished, even though he only had ONE requirement left on each of them! My understanding is that his time is up, and he'll have to redo all the requirements now that a year has passed, if he still wants the badges. I'm okay with that, because I want my son to learn that it's not okay to procrastinate, but I'm curious what other troops' policies are.

How much should I encourage him on this year's not quite completed summer camp merit badges? I know I'm not supposed to push, and that it's supposed to come from him, but I am getting frustrated!

Does anyone know if inviting a younger brother or friend, who has just finished Cub Scouts, would fulfill the new 1st class requirement? At present, we don't have any 2nd class or lower scouts with a 2nd year Webelos brother, but I could see the question coming up sometime. Ideally, they should be trying to recruit someone not currently in any type of scouting, but does the requirement say this specifically? Of course, the timing would have to be such that the Cub has just finished his last Pack Meeting, but not yet joined a troop.

That's great that you are organized and planning ahead. That puts you ahead of many new leaders, so don't worry too much about the parents' expectations. Just remember KISMIF: Keep it simple, make it fun! Also, you may find that some of the parents have ideas or ties to particular places. One of my parents was related to the Fire Chief, so we had a great tour of the fire station, and a ride on one of the fire trucks.

My son's Tiger den enjoyed our visit to an old house that is also a historical museum. I'd been there before, and knew that the lady who runs the tours is great with kids. Since this house had been part of the Underground Railroad, the boys were most interested in seeing the hiding place, down in the cellar, (dirt floor) where runaway slaves could hide.

It's great to have a goal of getting the Tiger badge by the Blue and Gold. Just make sure everyone knows that it's a goal, and not a requirement. It's great when all the boys can make rank at the same time, but it doesn't always happen, if some boys miss den meetings, and don't work on requirements at home as much.

Have a good year!

One of our leaders made up nice looking certificates on his computer, and we gave those out as perfect attendance rewards. Our committee decided to recognize those boys who had missed 2 or fewer meetings. (Pack and Den)

My kids still have over a month of summer vacation left, but one of my neighbors will start her new teaching year next week, because her district is year round (also called Balanced School Calendar).

Are there any differences for scouts who have year round school? Do the Cubs still have to do an activity in August for the Summer Time award, when their Summer is already over?

Our district has kicked the "Balanced School calendar" idea around for several years. Some would love it, because you would get two to three week vacations in the Fall and Spring. Others hate it, because they want Summer to go on forever! (My kids are in the latter group.)

How are sports handled when neighboring districts use different calendars? Do you suspend Cub Scout meetings during the Fall and Spring vacations, like many Packs do in the Summer? Our Boy Scout troop meets year round, so that wouldn't change with a different school calendar.

Just curious...

scoutldr:

My mistake! I'm sure you can tell this is a hot button issue for me. I jumped to conclusions based on your statement of hating when people use ADHD as an excuse for bad behavior. I personally have never heard anyone use it as an excuse, but rather as an explanantion. I've worked with many parents whose kids have ADHD, and as you know first hand, they need our support big time. If these kids are going to be successful adults, like your child, then they need all the help they can get. By the way, I'm glad to hear your success story. Every time I hear one of these, I have hope for my son.

My sister is 47 and she probably had (still has) ADHD. She and the rest of our family agree with this, but back in the 1960's nothing was done for kids like her. She struggled terribly all through school, despite the fact that she has a high IQ, and is very creative. After 7 long years of college, she finally graduated with her teaching degree, and is a fantastic teacher. I've seen her in action - ACTION, being the key word! She knows how to reach the difficult kids because that's what she was like. Unfortunately she's not quite as successful as your adult child, because her impulsivity causes her to spend more money than she makes. She ends up working 2-3 part-time jobs, in addition to her teaching job, just to support her habit of living beyond her means. We all relize this is her ADHD at work. What a vicious circle. Her ADHD allows her to have the energy to work all these jobs, so she continues with her impulse buying, and then wonders why she never has the time or money to do things she wants to do.

As you can guess, we are really working hard to teach financial responsibility to our kids, after seeing what their aunt goes through.

I guess God REALLY wanted to immerse me in the ADHD life, since He gave me a sister with ADHD, lead me to work with these kids, and then gave me one of my own! I wonder what He has planned for me next?