frankpalazzi

RATIONAL conversation for an HOUR? Really? You never got called "bigot," "racist," or "homophobe?"

Ah dew declare...there may just be some civility left.

VERY sloppy journalism, in my professional opinion. I've taken the liberty to send the author an email stating such and even suggesting that he return to school!

It's irresponsible reporting such as this that gives the BSA a "black eye" when it's not deserved.

I'm all for Freedom Of Speech. I'm against "Yellow Journalism".

You'll never get "real conversation" from those types of people. Ever try it?

What is the SM's view on all of this? Have you asked him?

"Might" is the operative word there. The "adult"'s rant would quickly include the words "bigot," "prejudice," "homophobe," etc. I've known these types for too long. That's where "thoughtful" conversation ends with me, I'll not lower myself to responding to ad hominem attacks.

Thomas, you say that it was the previous commander who signed off on the project? You would be advised to sit with him over a beverage and discuss what you've been experiencing. Don't expect him to come up with a solution then and there, but let "Legion Politics" do their work. If the Post has a building and property, they most likely have an Executive Board,which the Past Commander is a member of. (The E-Board is in charge of property and building matters.) Let him "work his magic." You and your scout can only gain by doing this, trust me.

The AL is more of a democracy, not a dictatorship where the Commander has the final word; he represents the Post membership. Relax, I think this is going to work out fine.

"Just another example of how intolerant those who demand tolerance can be."

"Right, because people should be more tolerant of bigotry and prejudice (rolls eyes). This kind of statement is as laughable as the use of the term 'political correct' in trying to defend ones right to be an ignorant bigot."

Thank you for illustrating my point.

"Just another example of how intolerant those who demand tolerance can be."

My feelings exactly! I find that engaging these people in any kind of conversation, much less debate is useless. They resort to namecalling and slander when they can't produce an intelligent counterpoint. Just have him say, "Thanks, have a nice day!" etc., and move on. It's a shame grown adults treat kids that way, I hope they themselves don't reproduce.

Your son probably interrupted him hard at work, cleaning his mommy's basem--...err...his bedroom.(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

Legion Posts come in all shapes, sizes, and odors. I find the people within those walls to be extremely generous when it comes to Scouts, regardless of the building. Bars and fish frys are how they keep their post going, and provide services and scholarships. (I got one of those scholarships 30 years ago.)

Last winter, I was talking to a member about an upcoming camping trip that the troop was planning. "How much does it cost you guys to do that?" he asked. The cabin at the council camp cost us $50 at the time for the weekend. He reached in his wallet, and said, "This one's on me, OK?"

For the remainder of that evening, his drinks were on ME.(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

Folks:

Please take time to inform yourself on what the American Legion is and what it does for veterans. (and youth)

http://www.legion.org

Some Legion Posts do not own a building nor a bar. They do a lot of good for veterans and their families. Let's not brand them as "a place to drink" or an "eating and drinking social club."

CP: Yes! How could I leave that out?? Past commanders do have a lot of "clout" (often residing on the Post E-Board) and can be a good person to have on your side! A chat with the last IH would be a great idea!!

Agree with the others; the scout should have been discussing this with the Commander and you, the SM. Was this the sole purpose of the "business meeting"?

Speaking as an American Legion COR, (I assume you're a COR as well?) It sounds like what you have is an "Anti-Scout" Commander. We have had to deal with this over the years as well. There are just some Post Commanders who would just as soon not sponsor a scout troop/pack, and try to make life miserable for the units.

Overcoming this is not easy, but here's what I did over the years:

First, build an alliance with the Post membership, make Scouting a positive in every way--if the post has a bar, make an appearance once in a while, introduce yourself to folks and talk up your scouts! Remember, your Commander is an ELECTED officer, and if the membership wants to sponsor scouts, then that's the way it will be! See if you can get the District and Department Boy Scout Chairmen to attend his installation if he hasn't already had the ceremony. Invite them to COHs, especially Eagle! They WILL make every effort to show up, and usually have Department and National certificates with them!

Try to get troop awards displayed in the members' quarters. Let the Post SEE what your scouts have achieved. Those camporee ribbons, etc., DO get noticed, especially by the older vets. Those simple ribbons go a long way toward good PR with the Legion members! If you can't display em, bring 'em into the club and show them off!

Have your scouts show up at EVERY Memorial/Veterans' Day parade/observance. The members will be there, so should your scouts--you are all technically "Legionnaires." On the Saturday before Memorial Day, our troop does a cleanup of the Post grounds. We plant some geraniums out front and decorate with flags. We do this without being asked.

Get the support of your District and Department Boy Scout Chairmen!! (I hope you have these in your Department!) Have one of them accompany you when it is time to recharter. They can be persuasive! Scouts is their job!

You say that the Commander is attending your next committee meeting or two: GREAT! Maybe once he sees how a scout unit operates "behind the scenes", he'll realize how much he really DOESN'T have to worry about! I hope it works in your favor. You and your CC can perhaps convince him that scouts is more than "cleaning bathrooms". Show him that having a Troop/Pack is an asset, not a liability. Good Luck and keep us posted!

I love Base's answer! Seriously though, are there any vocational high schools in your area with an auto body shop? That's how we're having ours done. We buy the paint and necessary decal material and submit the graphics the way the boys want them, and the labor's free.(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

I agree with NJ Cub Scouter. Up here in New England, it can get dangerously cold, especially at our council camp, where -10F is common during December and January. Of course, the boys must keep that cabin warm, which means gathering and cutting wood! Yes, in the snow! These days, when we announce a camping trip (ANY time of year), the parents ALWAYS ask, "Are they gonna be in teeennnnts?" Twenty-plus years ago, they'd say, "Polar Bear camping, huh? It'll be good for 'em!" The problem is, with this generation of parents, we wouldn't have any participation if we plan to pitch tents if there's snow on the ground! So, yes, we consider our cabin trips "camping"--The boys are outdoors for the most part unless it's mealtime or bedtime. And we won't allow them out if it's "dangerously cold" (below 0 with wind). Sometimes, a boy and/or adult will want to brave the elements and pitch a tent outside the cabin! Our SM is FINE with that! We haven't lost one yet---or even come close!

The council camp just built a new cabin last year for use in summer by staff, but available to troops in the off-season. (Please be sitting down if you're reading this) It has ELECTRIC heat, RUNNING WATER, and OUTLETS at every bunk for charging the toys. I looked a member of the camping committee square in the eye and said "Are you s*****g me??"(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

Here's a link for you, Cambridgeskip:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/FAQ.aspx

MBCs are adults, not necessarily scouters, who register with the BSA to counsel specific merit badges particular to their area(s) of expertise.

First year scouts earned 7 badges each? Did they have any fun?

Hasn't been an issue in my pack or troop. In the pack, losing 1 or 2 cubs yearly is normal, and for a variety of reasons. We generally show positive growth after recruitment.

Not that it'll break us, but DOUBLING the fee?? Puh-leez!

I wouldn't say "sad and cynical" but rather "been there, done that". I've enjoyed this thread! I've seen a lot of those "chapters" actually played out through the years.

Our pack buys all advancement. Monthly dues is allocated for that ($5/month for awards, $2 for supplies for den leader.) The CM usually makes the purchases, he goes by the Scout Shop on a regular basis.(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

Stole my thunder on the BORs and the Skill Awards, Horizon! Remember the annoying little advancement book? It was washable, too, if you left it in your pocket!

I remember when fellow scouts had time for sports, homework AND camping. We made it all work somehow.

Believe it Base! They did!

I don't think there's anything wrong with an extra little "bauble" on a scout shirt from a Council or District. (Bring me to the court-martial NOW, Uniform Police!!) They tell a story, and someone is sure to point and say "What's that?"--a conversation starter! I remember at roundtable one year they gave out a little leather cutout of a bearskin rug, with a small lanyard hanging from the bottom, knotted at the bottom. The idea was that for each roundtable you attended, you got a different color bead to put on the lanyard. The adults LOVED this...shouts of "BEADS! BEADS!" at the end of every RT! When you wore yours at a district event, everyone knew which RTs you attended. Out of district, people would invariably ask you about that "cool thing" on your shirt pocket.

RT Commissioners: Feel free to steal that one, it really worked in getting people to come out!(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

It's interesting to see the different regulations around the country! In New Hampshire: No interstate transport of firewood. Some state/private parks take it a step further and prohibit import/removal of wood to/from the individual park. Our Council camp follows state law. NH also has volunteer "Lake Wardens" to check vessels before and after they're in the water to make sure they're clean. Certain plant life imports were a problem for a while which affected fish.