Frank17

Base:

I learned a long time ago that there are two sides to every story. I do not know whether she just came here to vent (many members do that), as a troll (others do that), or really wants advise (some do that). I prefer to take her post at face value for now, as, real or not, her situation DOES HAPPEN in most troops. The real challenge is how to deal with it and learn from it and minimize the chance of re-occurence with any of the scouts in the troop.

A couple of points:

"The parents of the child have not even called me." - Like it or not, the scout troop cannot force parents to call and apologize to other parents. As you know, there are responsible parents and some not so much, in scouting as everywhere else. I assume the troop leaders apologized. I hope the other scout was also disciplined, BY THE TROOP, not just the parents.

"Men tend to stick together and if your child does not have a dad to buddy up with "the guys" he will not be a member of the testosterone club and in the end will not count." - If you truly feel this is valid, you should contact the chartered organization and district/council representatives IMMEDIATELY (see your council info on the web for contact names & numbers). This is not what scouting is about.

"I am a highly educated person." - If this is true, then you should know you will not help the situation with your son or scouting by refusing to deal with the matter any further. The scout and leaders should be given a chance to rectify the situation and resolve the problem with you and your son. THEN, if you are not happy with the resolution, you can take the next step and either seek out other troops to join or leave scouting altogether.

What happened is simply wrong, but unfortunately what does happen in society today. What will you do if your son get bullied / beat up when he enters high school? Pull him out of school altogether? Unfortunately, there are many ill-behaved kids and parents out there. Many poorly behaved kids also get put into scouting, as parents seem to think the scout oath and law are some sort of military code thet will give their son character. This does not excuse what happened, but it is the reality of scouting.

As a scoutmater for the past 6 years of a 60+ scout troop, I see a lot of conflict between scouts at times. Some of it spills over from school or family disputes, some is just general dislike. We, like all troops in our area and our school district teach bully-proofing and non-hazing. But it still occurs from time to time. When it does, we try to deal with it then & there with the scouts, parents, and teach the whole troop. You SHOULD hold the troop accountable for the incident, and not let it slide. BUT, you should also be prepared to hear both sides of the story and potentially forgive an older scout their mistake. Your son is relying on your jusdgement to help him through. I understand your anger, but do not just abandon the situation without fighting for what you want.

It sounds like one of the older BSA veterans patches; they used to be used to commemorate years of membership. They are diamond shaped, have the 1st class emblem incorporated in them, and are generally gold or silver with blue highlights. Search on ebay or google images to see if it matches

Try here:

http://councilstrip.com/admin/index.asp?nav=csp

They may not show every one, but it is free and quick.

We also leave it up to the individual scouts. In our area we have:

1. Our own Troop sponsored MB University, in-place of the monthly trip (no cost)

2. Private organization MB classes, generally $25-40 each

3. College MB days, by the local university, generally $50 for the weekend

4. Council sponsored advancement camp, $350 for the week

We only really push the first one of these, as it is no cost, and is run by our own Troop. For the others, we notify the scouts of the opportunities, but they must sign-up on their own and attend on their own (or in small groups they organize). If a scout asks about MB opportunities, we give them the list but they do it on their own. No complaints from parents.

1966 Dodge Dart. Boy do I miss that car!

I use hot glue a lot, but only to mount permanently in displays. I also figure that I am ruining the collectibility of the patches, since the glue either soaks into the fabric if there is no plastic coating or partially melts the plastic backing and is not removeable. It does work great for long term mounts win no visual impacts.

For temporary mounts, I usually plave the patches in clear plastic patch holders and then tape the holders to the display. That way, the patches are fully protected and can still be touched.

We just did our Klondike a couple of weeks back and had separate awards for the cub scouts (mostly webelos) and the boy scouts who were there. It was ironic that this actually hurt the cub scouts, as if there had been an overall competition, 2 of the cub scout patrols would have taken 1st & 2nd place based on their scores. Tjhis, for a competition that was based on TF to 1st class skills!

Thanks all. I agree with most of the input.

The scout does not live with his uncle; his cousin is in our Troop as well, and uncle transports both sometimes to the meetings. Parents are involved, and have been on campouts with our Troop. I know they would love it if he would learn to swim, but have been unwilling to press the issue with Scout. I believe they hope we will do it for them.

I agree that scouting is not about advancement or getting Eagle, but given how scouting is promoted nationally and locally, it is hard to convince a scout he is not "failing" when he falls behind his peers in terms of advancement. I like the idea of getting him to focus on MBs instead of rank; that may induce him to stay. I am going to discuss it with his parents this weekend. Hopefully we can help him along. I do not believe the rank waivers are really applicable since I am 90% sure he has never had a medical / psychological diagnosis of the problem. But I will offer it as an option anyway.

Moose:

Thanks, I read your post's reponses and they agreed with my thoughts. I just wanted to make sure I was not being insensitive about the problem.

My memory of learning swimming in 1st grade in Europe in the 60's was that I was not thrilled about the water either. I have a vivid memory of one kid, the smallest, skinniest in the class, who was TERRIFIED of the water. The teacher grabbed him and tossed him into the center of the pool. He dog-paddled to the edge; tossed in again; repeat until he calmed down enough to stay in the water and listen to instructions. By the end of the 4 week course, he was the best swimmer of all of us. Of course, that would be child abuse today. But I agree, many of what parents describe as phobias may be general nervousness.

Adults, specifically the parents of scouts who are not leaders themselves.

Just got this message from one of my ASMs who is also a lifeguard and an advanced scuba instructor:

"I got myself into an interesting conversation with Scout's uncle who was there. He is concerned that Scout is likely to quit since he can't see himself advancing because of his issues with swimming. I remember at least two swim tests with him and in talking with his uncle, I think this goes beyond ability to swim, and into phobia of swimming. I told him that we could all talk with you about looking at the requirements and maybe even petitioning the council to waive the swimming requirements if this is really the issue and not push the swimming."

This is not new to me. Scout has avoided all swimming activities and does not even really like to be near the water. At Summer Camp, I tried to go in with him and other new scouts during open swim and he would have none of it (started hyper-ventilating). Also tried to get some of the swim counselors / lifeguards to work with him, but did not want that either. Have suggested several local classes offerered through colleges or Red Cross to his family, but do not believe they ever pushed the issue, and I know he never went.

My first impulse is to say no, you need to learn to swim, and suggest local classes again. Or, should I look at his phobia as a medical disability and treat it appropriately through council, asking for requirement waivers? Opinions?(This message has been edited by frank17)

"Do parents who have never been camping or on a troop outing familar enough to judge if an event is beyond the capabilities of their son?"

In a word : YES!

You may know the trip better than anyone, but they know their boy better than anyone.

OP is gone, and only posted to start the thread anyway. Time to move on.

Once there was a CEO who was promoted and given the job after the old CEO resigned. When he came to his new office on the first day, he found a note and 3 sealed envelopes in his desk, labeled 1, 2, and 3. The note was from the old CEO, and stated the envelopes were from him, and were to only to be opened in times of trouble. The new CEO honored the old one's request, and put the envelopes away in a drawer.

After a year on the job, the company began to have problems. The CEO remembered the note, and opened the first envelope. Inside was a letter which said "Blame your predecessor." The CEO called a news conference, blamed his predecessor, and sure enough, everything settled back down and the company went on.

After a second year, the company began to have problems again. The CEO went right for the second envelope that had been left for him, and opened it. Inside was a letter which said "Reorganize." The CEO called a news conference, announced a reorganization plan, and everything settled back down and the company went on.

After a third year, the company began to have problems again. Profits were down, employees were leaving in droves, and the stock prices were plummeting. The CEO went into his desk for the third envelope, and opened it. Inside was a letter, which started out "Get three envelopes and label them 1, 2, and 3 ....."

Maybe that is why they are limiting terms to three years!

Once an Eagle, always an Eagle. Cannot be revoved by a simple form or procedure.

Check out ebay auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Boy-Scout-Chaplain-3592R-/200564528953?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb293d739

These are discontinued & no longer for sale on scoutstuff, but this is the most recent one that I am aware of.

I have witnessed the same thing. We have had a number of new members who post their question, and then spend the rest of the thread defending their opinion and not taking any other advice. I believe they are not posting to get other opinions; they are posting seeking validation of their own decisions. Whenever alternate positions / questions are posted, they state they are being "attacked".

I have no sympathy for these people. The internet is a rough place, and if you want to use it, you need to be prepared for some alternate viewpoints. If you want validation, go watch Oprah. I read this forum for over 2 years and joined as a poster for over 6 months before I posted my first question. That gave me time to know the personalities and who to listen to.

OGE: Better edit this one. The formatting is all munged up.(This message has been edited by frank17)

Time to move on, both literally (by finding a new troop) and figuratively (by ending this thread, that has turned into a complaint-fest). If you are talking about your son's development, it is not too much to drive an extra 1/2 hour to get to a good troop.

Lyle:

Welcome to the forums! You may want to re-post your intro in the "New to the forums" section, minus the patch trading list. I have not seen much patch trading on this board, it seems mostly about sharing opinions / advice. Check out the trade-o-ree calendar here (http://www.scouttrader.org/TOR/tor_cal.asp), and you may have more luck locally.

I can understand the logic behind banning it:

Cigarettes = bad from a health perspective

Alcohol = bad from an impairment perspective

Marijuana = bad for health and bad for impairment

BUT, I also think if an adult wants to do bad things to their health or be impaired in a responsible way, they have that right. I will stick to a big thick steak that is bad for me rather than the drugs.

Buy a new set on ebay and chalk it up to experience.

National sold out at the Jambo, & you would have had to do the return/exchange close to the time of purchase anyway, not months later.

Our old Pack does scout handbooks and homemade arrows ($4 or 5 in supplies - Arrows and colored thread), so the total cost is about $15 per scout. Our Troop gives them unit numbers, shoulder loops, and a new neckerchief if they bridge to us.

As a SM, I would recommend to all that EVERY W2 bridging over be given a scout handbook as a gift. It encourages the uninterrupted transition, gets them something useful to have, and saves a trip to the council store.(This message has been edited by frank17)

I have seen 3 patches for winter camping used:

1) The winter camping patch, for ...... drumroll please ..... camping in the winter (no Temp specified);

2) The polar bear patch, for camping in weather that reaches below 32 F (0 C) at some point; and

3) The zero hero patch, for camping in weather that reaches below 0 F (-18 C) at some point.

Camping means sleeping overight outside in a tent or snow shelter you built. As others have said, these are not BSA official but are usually council / district recognized.

I do 1 & 2 every year, but have only been able to do zero hero twice in the past 5 years, as it does not happen every winter around here.