epalmer84

Follow up stories:

Totem pole victim, 9, loved tractors, tools

Officials probe why totem pole fell

I know all of our totem poles at our camp are made from phone poles. Our master carver worked for the phone company and had connections (he was featured in Scouting a while back). I would never have thought to check a phone pole for rot, but it is still not clear how this one was constructed.

Ed

At ease!

I was never a jarhead, not have I stayed in a Holiday Inn recently. I was a conehead- a somewhat pejorative term for a nuclear missile technician in the US Army.

Your green "Scout Handbook" (that was the proper title at the time) was the handbook that introduced the Improved Scouting Program in 1972. I still have mine.

I started Scouting here in Virginia. I was an assistant Scoutmaster and Scoutmaster through my military career in Germany, Alabama, Florida, Alabama, Germany and Texas. I'm back home in Virgina and am currently an assistant Scoutmaster and an Advisor.

Scouting while in the Army was a blast. Doing my Ordeal in Switzerland was a blast. The only Scouter around here with better stories than mine is a guy who was in the Hitler Youth before his family lit out for the US.

> jblake47

"While it has become popular to "make up rules as you go along", it is rather fruitless to question their validity when they are not adherent to the Flag Code of June 14, 1923.

My crew (male) uses military uniforms and render appropriate military salutes in spite of BSA policy/protocol against it."

The second statement rather destroys the validity of the first. That is all I have on that subject, and I am not pursuing it any further.

Flag Code of June 14, 1923 is rather a misnomer. While true that the United States Flag Code was adopted by the National Flag Conference in 1923, it was not adopted into the US Code until 1942 and has been revised several times, most recently in 1999. It is currently Title 4, United States Code, Chapter 1. Notable changes include dropping the Bellamy salute in 1942 and changes to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954.

There is no provision to enforce the Flag Code, nor is there any penalty for any violation, thus the Flag Code is an advisory code.

The Flag Code does not address patriotic organizations (the BSA is chartered under the US Code as such), firefighters, law enforcement or any other uniformed organizations. The BSA custom of the Scout salute predates the formal adoption of the Flag Code by three decades and police use is probably much older than that.

The BSA usage states "when in uniform". There are two levels of uniform the official uniform for the program division and the activity uniform.

Ed

http://www.scouting.org/

The BSA site now has a survey on merit badges. There is one survey for Scouts and one for counselors. The counselor survey is interesting, as it is inquiring about multimedia and internet resources.

Ed

The SPL and PLs are responsible for troop hygiene. The shower house at Camp Shenandoah was rebuilt a few years ago with individual stalls to meet the Youth Protection program rules. The lake does not count as it is usually high in algae and goose poop. We rarely have any problems.

I also setup a Coleman shower tent and a shower head in camp. It is cold, but it does feel good at three in the afternoon. They can also use it to change clothes if two of them do not want to change in the same tent.

Ed

Camp Shenandoah supplies the wall tents (that is the proper name) that are set up as part of the spring Ordeal. The council buys new tents for each national Scout jamboree and these get cycled back to camp to replace the worn out tents. Most of the wear is from the cotton ties rotting out.

In the past, we have used two piece floor boards; these get stacked and covered after summer camp. We are moving towards platforms with one piece floors and "outriggers" on the sides to attach the tent.

We have either military style cots or steel bunks with mattresses. We get the mattresses from a military academy after graduation. It is illegal to sell a used mattress in Virginia, so the cadets buy a mattress when they start and dump it when they graduate; we pick them up as scrap. Some of them are not in great shape and can look quite nasty. We used straw ticks back in the 70s, and those might be more hygienic.

This year, I am planning to take my large Eureka dome tent and set it up behind a wall tent with a small tarp connecting them. The only reason I am doing this is that our newest assistant Scoutmaster happens to be my wife, and we would be more comfortable together.

I recall a few years ago, one troop had a Scout who was so afraid of bugs that they finally set up a dome tent inside a wall tent for him.

BTW: Daddy long legs are not venomous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pholcidae

Our troop and crew performs a salute when wearing the official uniform or the activity uniform. The troop activity uniform is a t-shirt with our troop logo on the back.

I think the salute is more about respect and not attire.

Ed

Hi, my name is Ed and I'm a Scouter.

> Well, today it is. Under Explorers/Exploring they never made spruce green shorts, so you had to wear the boy scout shorts of the time.

Hmmm. OK, I had seen photos of Explorers in the spruce shirt and trousers. Flipping through Peterson's The Boy Scouts: An American Adventure there is a photo of an Explorer in spruce shirt and olive shorts right in the front.

We never wore uniforms when I was an Explorer in 1976.

Ed

> Yes, ditch the bylaws

That is the best piece of advice yet.

We have a troop guidebook. This is more of a FAQ for parents. Every year we update it based on what new parents need to know when coming into the troop. We have a parents meeting just before summer camp where we answer any questions about camp. Based on the questions asked, we update the guidebook sometime after camp. This next update will finally get posted on the web.

I think we have exactly two troop rules: one on knives, based on council and camp policies and on the Code of Virginia, and one on electronics on outings. I wrote the first one after a lot of misunderstandings and the PLC came up with the second. The PLC approves the guidebook. I think I am going to note the new BSA policy on "what is an active Scout"; we really have not had this up since we dropped our Scout of the Year award when the previous CC left years ago (I never liked it as it had a whole bunch of criteria that duplicated other stuff).

Granted, we have unwritten rules, but these are really drawn from other sources; stuff like you can't have just Pop Tarts for breakfast and campfires that are blazing higher than my head will get water dumped on it (and yes I could certainly see it even when that patrol was camped 200 yards away).

Only Venturing crews write by-laws, and these are intended to define their vision, goals and anything else to for their unique crew program.

Ed

>are today's Belt loops & pins from the Cub scout Academic & Sports Program actually from an older Boy Scout program?

The short answer is "no"- they just recycled part of an older concept.

The BSA does not throw away concepts, they just stow them away for a while and dust them off when they need them again. Just a few examples:

- Boy Scout patrols were originally identified by colored ribbons worn on the shoulder with a brass pin; these were replaced by patches similar to the ones used today. When the Webelos activity pins were developed, the ribbons came back as the Webelos colors. Those patrol ribbons were replaced because they kept falling off- that seems familiar.

- Exploring had a Ranger Award from 1944 to 1949; brought back for Venturing in 1998.

- Exploring had a Silver Award from 1949 to 1964; brought back for Venturing in 1998.

- When Webelos were created in 1941, their emblem was the arrow and rays. The current Webelos emblem was introduced in 1972 and the arrow and rays became the Arrow of Light.

- In 1972, the Progress Record Book was introduced for boy Scouting. This was a booklet where you would record all of your advancement so you would not have to carry that big handbook. This went away in the 1980s, but we now have the Boy Scout Mini Handbook for the same purpose.

I'm sure I missed some, but it is interesting to see things revolve.

Ed

In all of this, the article never tells us what SafeRides actually is.

Ed

OK- it is in the last section that was not posted here:

SafeRides

SafeRides, created at John Jay 23 years ago, is a program that offers rides home to students on Friday nights. It was created to help cut down on drunk driving and car accidents caused by inexperienced drivers.

I participate in SafeRides because I know kids whove gotten home and have had no memory of getting there, said John Jay senior Katie Hamren, vice president of SafeRides. Anyone in the world can tell you thats a dangerous thing.

On any given Friday on which SafeRides is running, from 10 p.m. to 2 a.m., between four and eight students and an adult supervisor will gather in the teachers lounge at John Jay High School. Some students monitor the phones, while others handle the driving.

We dont just pick up drunk kids at parties, we pick up the completely sober sophomore whos keeping a friend company while an older sibling has a party, or the kid who got stuck at a train station, said Katie. It gives kids a safe ride home, it prevents accidents and it prevents kids from being in a place where its unsafe for them to be.

The cars each contain two students, a male and a female. The driver must have a senior drivers license, while the passenger must have at least a junior license.

Between them, theyve handled about two to three calls per night this year, according to Katie.

SafeRides doesnt do anything bad, Katie said. Its purely a community service organization.(This message has been edited by epalmer84)

Some of the points that stick out here:

> The SafeRides program is owned by the Venturers, a coeducational

branch of the Boy Scouts of America, and chartered by the school

district.

You can read this several ways, but it does not explicitly state that the school district is the chartered organization for the crew. The BSA program is "chartered to" an organization, not "chartered by"; this is probably a technicality that would escape a reporter not familiar with these aspects of the program.

> Public schools and government organizations do not serve as chartered organizations

True, as stated on the BSA web site. This came about as a result of an agreement in 2005 to stop granting charters to governmental type organizations. I have some opinions on that, but that is beyond the scope of this discussion.

> The agreement was illegal, and even against official BSA requirements.

The article is rather vague on the details to make a definitive statement like that. We really have no good idea who the chartered organization actually is; it could be a PTA or similar group which is open to a charter.

Ed

A spruce green shirt with olive green shorts. What a fashion faux pas!

Ed

It seems like National is quite conservative as to their web presence. It is also my understanding that their really good web people get hired by the larger local councils at better pay.

Ed

Yes. And they already changed the merit badge library.

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/32215/mb/library.html

Last week it had notes about updated requirements that take effect in 2008, but these are now removed. These were Backpacking, First Aid, Hiking, Metalwork, Sculpture, Water Skiing (to become Water Sports) and Wilderness Survival.

Ed

>Thus I know they were using the C revision of the Admin guide.

I'm not surprised it has been updated, but I don't understand why they would not update the online version. Frankly, I like having the PDF on hand as it is searchable. When I was scribe last year, I could find material in the guides and readily print up whatever was needed.

Ed

The A version is what we used in April-May of 2006. The online version is still the A rev:

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/av/18-591/

If you can find it, you can copy it as it is a bin item (identified by the dash in the catalog number). Our CC is on staff this fall- I will ask him what version he is using.

Ed

To expand on dancinfox's answer;

The reference is the Wood Badge Administrative Guide (2005) #18-591A.

Ed

Ooops- I didn't get the message. Give me some lead time and I might make the next one.

Ed in VA

I used to be a beaver...

I had forgotten this...

I was a scribe on our last Wood Badge course. I printed up name badges with position emblems and the troop guides changed name tags instead of uniforms. We did not have to buy shoulder loops. I used a color laser printer, and printed these up on cardstock, then laminated them.

Ed

When I was a youth, the chapel at Camp Shenandoah here had round plaques with the emblems of several faiths- Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Baha'i, and a number of others. Returning as an adult, I found that those plaques had been removed. The chapel is still there, nestled amongst the pines, simple yet elegant. It is often used for training in the Citizenship merit badges. I often see Scouts sitting there, either doing paperwork where it is quiet or simply meditating or praying.

Ed

There are actually a number on eBay at the moment. You might also search for "shofar", as the kudu horn is used for this purpose as well.

Remember- one of the recent changes to the program is that only one person may use the kudu- I suspect this is a health and hygiene issue.

Ed

> Again, when you talk about what "we" don't allow, who is "we?"

"We" are the troop, as decided by the PLC. The only real PLC "rule" is on knives since we have council policies and state regulations. Everything in the troop and parent's guidebook is definition type material; "courteous" means you don't cut through other units campsites or shine a light in someones eyes, "thrifty" means you don't chuck rocks in the river as it has a heavy environmental impact (skipping rocks is OK) and so forth.

One of our committee members didn't really understand the music thing until we were at a camporee. The troop beside us had a boom box that was just simply annoying until someone crossed the line with some rap music with inappropriate language (I don't allow it in the car either). A short talk when their Scoutmaster showed up resolved the issue when I found out about it.

Ed

We don't allow electronics past watches, flashlights (and no, flashlights with radios don't count) and a GPS. If they want to play with it in the vehicle and leave it, that is fine.

Cell phones get turned off during meetings. Adults who are on call are expected to use the vibrate feature and go out of the room when using the phone.

At Camp Shenandoah, you pretty much have to walk down to the parking lot to get a signal- you might get lucky in the evenings, but it is spotty. I have taken my cell phone with me on several camping trips just to check coverage- it is really quite poor in the rural areas of the Shenandoah Valley. There is at least one dead zone between home and work. Relying on a cell phone for emergency use under these conditions is a fool's wager.

Ed