eolesen

Have you called Troopmaster? 1-434-589-6788 (Virginia)

www.troopmaster.com maps to an IP address with Yahoo. So, that's not it...

I've always taken uniform to mean everyone wearing the same attire. So, if everyone is in Class B's with hats, that's a uniform. Salute away.

Isn't the hat optional?

If you've seen snipe droppings, then you're one up on me.

What are you implying that it implies?

I chose to dial it down a notch above with regard to Scouting literature, but in contracts or technical standards, "shall" and "must" are binding/required actions, "should" is used for non-binding actions which can't be required due to possible conflicting circumstances, and "may" indicates an optional action.

Since you can't require a Scout to own a uniform or a coat & jacket, that would make the guideline of expecting Scouts to appear in one for a BOR non-binding.

"Can" must never be used unless it is unavoidable. (This message has been edited by eolesen)

"Should" infers a preferred way or best practice. "Shall" and "Must" are more absolute.

Personally, I say it's your call as a unit leader as to the standard you want to hold. If the BOR is pre-planned, they should be prepared per the unit standard. But since it's not a requirement to own a uniform, you can't require it. Nor is it a requirement to own a coat and tie...

I've seen boys go for a BOR in an activity uniform, street clothes, and full field uniform with sash & cap. Never once seen one in a coat and tie, though...

Just keep in mind that the SMC & BOR aren't a test or an inspection. They're check-in points where the SM and Scout can talk one-on-one about the Scout's progress, and where the Committee can check-in with the Scout to make sure the program is living up to all of their expectations.

If that happens in a formal setting at a troop meeting where everyone is all gussied up, great.

If it happens sitting on a log in the middle of the woods wearing rain gear or around a campfire, even better.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

Barry, I earned my beads the same way you probably did, and my "normal" son is a project and a couple MB's away from his Eagle. So, to assume I don't understand the way the program works in practice is snipe droppings...

In the traditional units I've worked with as an ASM, an ADC, and a disabilities MBC, I've seen mobility impaired Scouts, ADHD to extremes, mental retardation, and at least one bi-polar who though meds were optional at summer camp....

Like you, we didn't seek these kids out -- they found us. And we welcomed them, and never faced a situation where we had to ask them to leave. Some dropped out on their own, and a few parents decided that they were too self conscious about their son's disability and the extra work it usually required on the part of the leaders.

Sure, there are challenges, and we had our share of dump-and-run parents. But fear of what could happen alone isn't enough of a reason to push the kids towards a SN unit.

Frankly, every one of the the problems you mention with the SN kids from your experience happen with the "normal" kids as well (including a kid who stripped to his skivvies and refused to get dressed... and his dad was with on that particular campout!).

There will always be kids who aren't suited to participate in every aspect of the program. That's just a fact of life.

But when the day arrives we aren't willing to "help other people at all times" then we need to stand aside find someone willing step up to the challenge.

And I know they're out there. As an ADC, finding experienced Scouters to work hands-on with the all-autistic pack wasn't too difficult. Getting them a UC who could handle their uniqueness was more of a challenge, but that eventually happened as well.

All you have to do is ask. Sometimes it takes a little longer, but there are people willing to take on the challenges. It shouldn't be at the expense of the other kids, but I can't stand by and watch "separate but equal" be stated as a preferred method.

I also can't stand by and watch "separate but equal" be exhibited to the other kids. It's bad enough we have divisions within Scouting loosely based on religion, skin color, and language...

At the end of the day, the SN Scouts are still boys who benefit from the Scouting experience. They may never progress past Tenderfoot, and may never be able to figure out a bowline or remember how to put up a tent, but they do walk (or roll) away as better people because of it. And so do we.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

1) All boys deserve their day in court if something happened. If you don't afford them the courtesy of presenting their side, they're not receiving a very good lesson in civics...

2) There is no such thing as a bad Scout. Scouts make bad decisions and need to learn the consequences of those decisions, but that doesn't make them a bad person...

3) Scouting would be great without some of the parents... I see far more damage caused by overprotective parents reporting heresay to the council than I do actual incidents which deserve some form of corrective action.

Rick, you've gone overboard before, but mocking scripture is a new low.

Perhaps it's time to take advantage of the "ignore" feature here like I've done with your posts over on Scouts-L...

Retarded isn't a slur. It's a medical condition which happens to affect my daughter. Quite frankly, it's a lot less offensive to me than some of the more delicate (and almost patronizing) politically correct terms that some people insist on using....

Let me just say that it is impossible to find volunteer adults that could work with and deal with all the issues that comes with those scouts. They do the best they can, but lets be reasonable, they are not trained professionals. Just adding one retarded scouts at summer camp tripled the work for the adults. OK, that is fine if the unit can handle it, but most folks dont realized the physical and mental stress involved with adding one such scout, not to mention several.

Try being the parent of one of those kids. You're with that stress 24/7... Yet, we find a way of making it work...

I'll politely disagree with you, though. There are volunteers who manage to find a way to deal with it. The last two churches I've belonged to managed to find parents willing to let kids with special needs find a way to be mainstreamed in church school classes. There's no reason you can't find someone willing to make a similar commitment in Scouting.

So that leaves the idea of a unit dedicated to such scouts. Well, we have one, or at least had one of those troops around. The leaders are a little more trained and prepared for the differences, but not all that many parents wanted such a troop. So it struggles, if not failed. Strangely, families of handicapped scouts desire normal troops to help their sons get assimilated into culture. So that puts us back to where we started, a program of just plain ordinary parents trying to do the best they can with extraordinary boys.

Yeah, and while we're at it, let's make 'em ride on the short bus, and spend their day in segregated classrooms or on a different campus altogether...

As the parent of a mentally retarded child, I'd never expect special treatment for my kid in a scouting unit. But I also don't expect her to be excluded from participating in a traditional unit to the best of her ability.

We have an all-autistic unit in our district, which sadly was formed because of the attitude that exceptional kids can't be in a program run by "normal" parents.

I'm not sure it's the best thing for the boys in the units, and frankly, it does a dis-service to the boys in the units who they'd otherwise participate in.

What's ironic is that I see where the kids always find a way to accept the special needs kids in their units. It's the parents who seem to have the most problem accepting it.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

I did my course out of council, and I'm glad I did because I never would have been able to take it in council based on how the dates and format of the course fell. In council, I had a choice of one week every year. Out of council, I had a choice of five different courses including a variety of Thursday-Saturday courses for LDS leaders and Friday-Sunday courses for traditional leaders.

My patrol turned out to be the strongest relationships I made during the course(contrary to Rick's misconception that the patrol method isn't part of WB21C).

As for networking within my district, that's what Roundtable is for.

Bobwhite says "If that is the case then go ahead and register because you will recieve a packet of information from the course director with everything you will need to know prior to attending the course. Including information on the ticket. "

You should receive a packet of information... All I got was the packing list and the 20 questions, which were good as a self-assessment, but they were no substitute for talking with folks either already working their ticket or who had already earned their beads...

It it just me or are there a lot of Bobwhites responding to this?... Who says patrol members don't reflect their critter...(This message has been edited by eolesen)

Do what we tell the boys: save your white/blue cards in a baseball card holder. Or you could be a technophobe and scan 'em...

"One of my ticket items was to "teach a class .... My advisor told me to change it to "Offer to teach a class ...."

Same thing with me, and I'm glad it was worded accordingly.

I offered to teach a class, came up with the curriculum, made my sales pitch a few times, and still wound up with no takers.

Trust me, it was no less work to prepare to teach the course...

DonM, all I can say is take the course and go in with an open mind.

When I wrote my ticket, I did so -after- talking with both the SM and CC in our troop. I wanted to make sure I had their buy-in before I started making commitments I was responsible for.

That's easy to do with a two-weekend course. Less so for the week-long courses that some councils run...

"On a side point, I've heard the WB candidates say they were supposed to do something for district or council for one of their tickets, but I don't know that for a fact. "

It's not a fact at all, but it can make for an interesting ticket item. That said, I know some staffers see WB as a way to recruit "volunteers" to get district and council work done.

I chose to serve as a commissioner as part of my ticket, and I'm glad I did it. If nothing else, it taught me commissioner service wasn't my calling...

Last week, I finished my last two ticket items/goals/objectives from the course.

The number of items I wound taking on since I started working the original ticket could have easily rounded out a WB20C ticket (nine items in three areas?)...

And it's just the beginning, I'm sure. My oldest is checking out of Scouts, and my youngest is a Tiger...

(This message has been edited by eolesen)

Not forget that not everyone who goes up to a summer camp is there for the great outdoors.... You have parents who go simply because another driver was needed, staffers who are there for weeks at a time, etc... All of whom may need to stay a little more connected.

One upside that hasn't been mentioned is the ability to bring in rental income from non-Scouting groups. Wi-fi usually pays for itself pretty quickly.

Put in wi-fi, and I know I'd consider using our council camp for corporate retreats...

I will also admit that I'm usually lugging around a laptop on non-backpacking outings, but it's not for the entertainment value.

Besides having immediate access to Troopmaster, I also keep a copy of the latest G2SS PDF's, contact information for all the Scouts and adults, scanned in medical forms & releases, worksheets from USScouts for most merit badges, and other reference material which would otherwise be too cumbersome to bring to an outing.

Sheesh... I take a four month break from the forums, and right at the top of the list is yet another diatribe from Merlyn...

Must....

Grind....

Axe......

On another thread, John-in-KC mentioned having the commissioner staff pull double duty as trainers. That's more or less the situation in our district, but it happened by accident.

All of the units I work with as an ADC know they have a standing offer for me or one of the other UC's/ADC's to come and do a training class just for their unit. That extends all the way up from YPT to IOLS.

I've seen a unit schedule the class on their own and then go fishing for instructors. That works too, believe it or not...

But as much as I believe the district and council need to have their act together, sometime you just gotta get their attention by upstaging 'em...

If we didn't have the agitators, this place would be a little boring...

Sadly, I see more 14 year old Eagles in our neigboring LDS troops than anywhere else. It's an edict from the church president that all boys are expected to get their Eagle. So, they get them...

16 is the average age in our troop. A few 15 year olds, a few heart-attack 17 year olds.

New parents are pretty much drinking from a firehose for the first couple weeks/months... I don't think anyone will notice if you have the ACM filling in for you at the first meeting.

Plus, I suspect you'll do a better job as a new CM having been thru the course. If nothing else, you'll be pumped up, and can probably leverage a few ticket items out of things you want to do differently with the pack from the previous CM.

That said, I will second the value of going out of council for WB if you have an opportunity to do so. In addition to the expanded network, it was a nice change of scenery in terms of both the attendees and the camp. My course was about three hours drive from home, which also gave me lot of time for reflection to/from the camp.

Trust me, it's not being ignored -- the SPL or ASPL directs everyone to "show their respects", and a volunteer gives the opening/closing prayers or grace at a meal.

I don't see McCain, Huckabee, Paul lasting past Super Tuesday. I see it coming down to Romney and Guiliani, and Hillary vs. Obama.

Remember, Rudy wound up with 10% of the Iowa vote without setting foot in the state.

Invite them to a meal and a campfire... We've got a great rapport with our DD and DE in part because we make sure they know where we're camping, when we're eating, and what's on the menu.