eolesen

If they're insults, that's even less justification for this nonsense of a thread.

Ad hominum posts have no place on this or any other forum, and the following comments in this thread do nothing other than attack the poster:

"I'd say you're not only not interested, but likely not capable."

"I knew it. Ed is incapable of carrying on an argument, even after being tediously guided right to what he needs to do to make one."

"Ed, why does the ACLU deserve a Prevaricator's Knot? You have yet to offer a coherent reason."

"This one is about your inability to offer even a shred of an argument to support your views. "

"You just toss words and phrases around, without even attempting to put forward a concept."

OGE, with all due respect and as a former moderator, you have no business taking sides in the argument, as you did below:

"Ed, the F word tactic is not on point and can only lead away from the original argument that the ACLU is being dishonest"

None of the quotes from Merlyn above have anything to do with the original argument either, and as I said at the opening of the post, are only ad hominum attacks.

Quite frankly, this like grandstanding more than an argument. OGE, you should have trusted your first instinct, and deleted the thread as a personal attack.

To be clear, that's just my opinion as a former moderator, and not a reflection of who I happen to agree with in the "discussion" at hand.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

"What restaurants would be willing to donate?"

Just about any one I've ever approached...

It doesn't have to be food -- it can be simple things like paper products. We got Chili's to donate "kids cups" for one of our events, and McDonalds has been known to do that as well. Likewise with napkins, plasticware, etc.

We had a Scout with a family member who was an area manager for Applebee's, and wound up getting some of the food staples donated for our Blue and Gold, plus other non-food items like metal pans for holding the food between the prep time and serving time, ladles/serving spoons, napkins, etc. That was a relationship we worked hard to hold onto for a number of years!

Best of luck -- we have an all-autistic unit in my area of the district which formed earlier this year for many of the same reasons. So far, things are going great according to the committee chair, and they're getting ready to recharter with 15 members, and they have another 10 boys who have been attending on a somewhat regular basis but haven't yet registered. An autism charter school is sponsoring the pack, so I know they'll be a success with that type of support (and natural feed!).

If you want to send me a private message, I will see if the DE and committee chair are willing to share some of their startup stories...

Regardless what happens with his tenure as SPL, seems to me that some time for reflection on this is appropriate before recommending him for an Eagle Board.

One of the things that an Eagle Board is supposed to evaluate is whether or not the Scout is living and applying the Scout Law in his personal life.

Clearly, underage drinking and deflecting responsibility are somewhat in conflict with being Trustworthy and Obedient.

Haven't seen it happen, but I'm sure it could. And with my luck, it will be called into question a week before my son's 18th birthday.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the boy who moves and changes Councils. That happened to my son, and we wound up showing the blue cards to the new troop's AC when we registered him. Councils don't have a simple way of getting advancement information transferred from council to council. Likewise with registrations... I had to re-register as did my son.

Navisite, a fairly large webhosting wholesaler, has been down for the past three days. They resell space to a lot of smaller ISP's, so you're probably being impacted by that.

Check here for status: http://www.navisite.com/alabanza.aspx

(since we're back at the beginning again... unless we had a Wolf or a Crow I don't know about...)

Ohhhhh.... I used to be a Bobwhite!

And a mean old Bobwhite, too.

I've eaten me an eagle and a fox and beaver stew.

I'm getting rather hungry,

And don't know what to do.

So I'm going to catch a Staffer if I can!

Back to dinner, frying pan,

I'm going to eat a Staffer if I can!

What you get out of Woodbadge depends entirely on what you put into it.

Will it benefit your unit? Absolutely. As others said, your ticket is mostly going to be work done on behalf of your unit and/or district. And, it's just the tip of the iceberg. My ticket still isn't complete (two of my items have time specific commitments), but I've already been involved with a couple of new "projects" which would have easily been ticket items. And I fully expect that to continue as long as I'm actively involved with Scouting (my youngest son has over ten years until he ages out).

Will it benefit you personally? Most likely.

I've been thru a lot of professional management courses, and this is one of the best values you'll find for learning management skills. Some people have sucessfuly justified the time off of work as "training" by touting its benefits for their professional life.

So, don't look at it as a $250 expense. Look at it as a cost effective investment in your personal development.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

Thanks for the reminder about Richardson, Eric. I'd already forgotten about that...

TJ, I don't think there are too many people left who think being gay is a choice. It isn't.

I'm sure you're a good example of citizenry. Most of the gay and lesbian people I've known over the years are extremely private, and are decent people. And having worked in both fine arts and the travel industry, there are times where I was in the minority as a hetero. I had several roomates in college who were gay, so it's not that big of a deal to me for someone to be gay.

What some people feel is a choice is how you choose to act, and what I personally disagree with is the "in your face" lifestyle some choose to live.

Specifically, I struggle to understand why someone feels it is necessary to show up in thongs, leather, or drag for Gay Pride parades, or to come to Mass wearing rainbow wigs and then expect to receive the Eucharist. At the other side of the spectrum, I have an ethical problem with groups who actively lobby for the elimination of age of consent laws, or who insist on having the religious institution of marriage changed (which is an entirely separate issue from the civil or corporate recognition of marriage). And yes, I also have a problem with those who file lawsuits against private service organizations claiming that they've been damaged because of that group exercising their right to association.

That doesn't mean I hate gays. I means have no respect for those actions. They're mutually exclusive, which is something you and others don't appear to be recognizing on a consistent basis.

We just happened to be at Disneyland during Gay Days last month, and most of the participants in red shirts were more or less blending in and just there for the fun. But there were some fairly borderline offensive slogans on a few of the shirts, and we saw several drag queens literally walking up and down Main Street for the shock effect.

Perhaps you can explain what was accomplished by throwing their sexuality in everyone's face, or why it was necessary to do so in a place where people bring young children. To me it was about as inappropriate as running Viagra commercials on Nickleodean or The Cartoon Network.(This message has been edited by eolesen)

We ran into a few problems with the "you buy unsold-unreturned tickets" a few years back, and abandoned that for subsequent dinners. It's one thing if it is a fundraiser where you're buying something like discount cards, entertainment books, etc. with a somewhat tangible value. Spaghetti dinner tickets didn't really fall into that definition for us.

Make sure you publicize it with the firehouses and police stations a couple days or a week in advance (like Scouts, they plan menus and shop in advance...) Trust me. They'll show up, since it beats cooking and cleaning for the night.

Heck, you might want to just invite them for free and use any spontaneous "cash donations" to pay for their meals. Those guys deserve a break and to be the recipient of a good turn once in a while. Another way you can accept cash donations and be legal is to have FOS envelopes handy. Sure, the money goes to the Council, but it still goes towards your Scouts indirectly.

Beavah, I'm not sure if it is the sex-oriented culture, or simply the continuous push for a secular culture.

Having secular governance is seen as good from most viewpoints, but once you marginalize the role that religion and faith have within a culture, things start to unwravel.

How can you make the claim that the book doesn't help Scouting at all when it hasn't even been published yet?

If this were a book authored by a gay politician who was also Eagle Scout, the usual loud voices above would be crowing about how it was good to see someone take a positive stance on the issues.

Kudos to Rick Perry for being willing to take a stand. Too many people have stood silent on speaking out against the gay agenda because of fear of being labeled a hate-monger.

What you do in your private life is up to you.

But don't expect others to hold you up as a role model...

I was always under the impression that the prohibition against paint ball and laser tag had nothing to do with insurance -- it was more to do with discouraging the action of pointing a loaded weapon at another person...

Commissioner Staff is a support role to help units put on a successful program, even if it isn't necessarily a fully compliant program.

Gold Winger, a few questions....

1) Does this unit participate in events at the district level?

2) Do they attend Roundtable?

3) Do they have any leaders who have gone thru anything more than just leader specific training?

Telling them what they're doing wrong isn't going to do much at all. I think we've all established that, and yes, that means there will be times as a commish that you need to look the other way when you see variations from BSA gospel.

If they're a Scouting island, and they've got a program that works, don't mess with that. Just take the time to let them know about opportunities to do things with other units, what they can learn from Roundtable, and what training opportunities are out there, i.e. Woodbadge. Once they're exposed to what other units do and what's available to them as far as resources, they may come around. And they may just chose to stay on the island.

Either way, you're supposed to be there as a friend of the troop. Don't forget that.

And, to add fuel to the fire, I'm told there's some fuzzy math allowed by the ADC and DC to still sign off on units receiving CUA if a unit missed their stated goals because of reasons perhaps outside their control (i.e. leader training was set at x% but classes weren't offered).

Let me second (or third) the concept of getting the parents up to speed as quickly as possible. Scouting isn't Webelos III, and helping manage the parents expectations will go a long way towards your retention.

Using the new-boy patrol concept might also help (especially if you have enough ASMs and/or Troop Guides to serve in an advisory role), since it helps the boys develop an identity along with like-age boys (some of whom they'll already have friendships with from Cubs?).

Having been the patrol advisor to several new boy patrols, I'd say that a third of my time is spent advising the parents, and once they "get it" as far as the difference between Cubs and Scouts, they tend to ease out of hover mode pretty quickly.

Putting an 11 year old in with a bunch of 13 and 14 year olds and expecting the 11 year old to be immediately accepted doesn't always work, but it's always fun to see a patrol made up mainly of 11 year olds start winning patrol competitions!

I love dutch oven cooking, but if you're in an area with a lot of outdoor fire restrictions, it's not always possible to use on a campout.

Since someone else mentioned the similarity to crock pots, here's something that may wind up my personal chuckbox once they've had a year or two to iron out the kinks:

http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0043672517643a.shtml

I had a similar issue with phone calls not being returned by one of my unit leaders, so I simply started showing up at their meetings, and asked if it was OK to observe. Never once was told no...

Being a nameless/faceless person who "administers" from afar is easy.

Be more than just electrons on the screen or a name on a message pad. Be a face. Get into the trenches with them. I think you'll do a lot to repair the damage and get into a position where you can learn from each others experiences.

"Do we drive down to the DMV or drivers license bureau ever year to get a new license? No, but we certainly do drive down to the DMV before our drivers license expiration occurs."

Well, my AZ drivers license doesn't expire until my 65th birthday, which is over 20 years from now....

I used to be a Bobwhite, and a Good Old Bobwhite too,

But now I've finished Bobbing. and I don't know what to do.

I'm growing old and feeble, and I can Bob no more!

So I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

Back to Gilwell, Happy Land [stomp stomp], I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

I'll pass on commenting about the homophobia and child molestation angle. I see those as red herrings which just divert attention from the real issue.

BSA is entirely within their rights to decide who is and isn't a good role model for youth, and they decided a long time ago that homosexuality goes against being morally straight and therefore isn't consistent with the qualities sought for adult role models.

There are plenty of straight adults who have no business being leaders, and I'm sure you can make a case for there being plenty of upstanding citizens who happen to be gay yet are excellent role models. That may be the case, but it still isn't consistent with the qualities that BSA is seeking for adults. Failure to remove poor examples of role models doesn't justify the BSA changing its standards. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

If there are dates recorded for the BOR and the SC, don't sweat the small stuff. Those items are a "check-in" point with the Scout on how he's doing personally, and for the committee to be checking in with how the program is running.

If you were talking about merit badges being signed off by unregistered counselors or being handed out without requirements being completed, I'd be worried...

"His SM had told him his SfF hours could count towards one OR the other (rank), but not both."

The only black and white restriction/guideline I've ever seen with regard to merit badges is that work done for one badge can't be used to satisfy a requirement for another badge.

Example: the public meeting you attend for Cit in the Community Req 3A can't also be used for Communications Req 5.

Most SM's and MBC's I know allow the cooking & menu prep items for Camping and Cooking can be used to satisfy the First Class requirements for cooking & menu prep.

It's your SM's call on what he'll allow for a rank advancement requirement and the MBC's call on what he'll allow for the merit badge. But technically, there's no reason I can think of that service hours can't count towards both.

My son earned all of his service hours (and then some) by volunteering along with my wife at a homeless shelter. They had established a kids play group (the shelter had over 50 school age kids) and it only took a couple of weeks to get all the hours in.

There is no expiration in our council, which doesn't surprise me. Our neighboring council requires it to be retaken every three years.

I asked our DD about this a couple months ago, and his answer was that it is left up to the individual councils to determine, based on what is required under local and state laws.

If you are concerned about it, a unit can always have more stringent requirements for its leaders.

Aside from roundtable, recurrent training in Scouting doesn't seem to be an idea whose time has come yet, but I do think there's a place for it, especially in this area.

It's a pain in the butt.

If you need to make an edit, you will have to replace every instance of the single quote or apostrophe with two single quotes.

example:

I think that''s a dumb idea but I can''t do anything about it.

And no, don't just use the double quote key.

(This message has been edited by eolesen)