eisely

Every large organization goes through this from time to time. It is a difficult line to walk: trying to control the message versus over controlling employees and former employees. I don't see anything special to get alarmed about. If I were a retired professional I wouldn't want to talk to reporters even if I thought I had something to say, because once you become a source they will never leave you alone. If the organization had been involved in illegal activities, I would be talking to my lawyer before I would talk to any reporter.

Dining flies are extremely useful. I don't understand why you have a single fly for the entire troop. Every patrol should have its own, including the adult cooking group.

If memory serves me correctly, the revolutionary war general named Charles Lee subsequently was exchanged by the British and disgraced him self at the Battle of Monmouth, also in New Jersey. That took place in 1778 I believe.

In June we did a fifty miler on the Sacramento River. I was paddling with a number of scouts whom I had not met previously. One kid was named Alec. He was inquisitive and bright, so I started calling him Smart Alec. He liked it.

One of the other scouts asked me on the first day how I preferred to be addressed. Very thoughtful and courteous of him. I told him he could refer to me as "your excellency" which stuck for the rest of the trip.

All in good fun.

We who live in California (the land of fruits, nuts and flakes) reject all claims of all other states to having a disproportionately large share of nut jobs. We pay them to move here.

As Oak Tree wrote, I am not aware of any official published guidance on this subject. I agree that I would not allow that double dipping either. I suggest that this is a local unit policy that ought to be taken up with your youth leadership to get their input.

Speaking of radio, who remembers Boston Blackie and The Shadow?

Learned something new today. Improves my opinion of Carter a small bit.

I used flour of sulfur as a kid. Works for both ticks and chiggers.(This message has been edited by eisely)

It has always been my understanding that the only patch one can wear on the red shirt jac is a single large patch on the back. I have seen 50 miler patches, OA patches of a style now prohibited, and other things. I have a 1957 Jamboree patch on mine. It gets an occasional comment. And yes, I am one of the old guys.

I remember Jimmy Carter being attacked by a rabbit, but I did not know that Jimmy Carter was a scout leader. Seems dubious to me.

I think you have a right to be upset over the circumstances under which your son lost the chance to go. I also agree that having people arrive in stages at an outing is a complication for everybody, but many units accept it.

I also think your SM has a greater right to be upset at unexpected youth showing up for an outing. How did this affect the headcounts for food among other things? Regardless of the transportation planning aspect of the situation, people who do not sign up timely should not be allowed to jump in at the last minute.

For those of age sixteen, there is also the position of Junior Assistant Scoutmaster. I have seen young men perform this role very effectively.

Yes.

Without endorsing McCarthy's tactics or Bachman's attack, it bears remembering that there was at least one very prominent spy in our State Department working for the Soviet Union during WWII until he left the State Department. His name was Alger Hiss. If I recall correctly he was convicted only of perjury, not espionage per se. Nevertheless, Hiss's allegiance to the Soviet Union has been proven subsequently by materials in the Soviet archives.

I agree with the others that big tents are a poor choice. Apparently your troop does nothing but car camping. Even doing car camping, finding enough open ground to pitch a large tent can be a problem. Two man tents are clearly preferable.

Having said all that, perhaps it would be best to let the boys live with their choice. This mistake does not enganger anybody. It would merely cost money.

As an aside, when I first saw this topic it appeared immediately below Merlyn's topic and I thought, "Oh brother, here we go again..."

I agree with those who state that an EBOR should be largely pro forma. Ours are run at the district level and are very scout friendly. I don't think any adult who wanted to turn these into an inquisition on a scout's beliefs would be invited back.

We have an entire cadre of experienced adult volunteers who treat their participation in these EBORs as one of the highlights of their own adult scouting experiences. I have participated in a few and it is heart warming to meet youth are positive about themselves, their accomplishments, and their futures.

I think routinely running formal mock EBORs would be largely a waste of everybody's time. I do agree with Beavah that these practices may grow out of some sour experiences. To me it is primarily the SM's responsibility. Part of the SM conference for the eagle rank should be a discussion to find out if the eagle candidate is at all nervous or worried and offering assistance at that time. If such a candidate wanted more adult input to help him prepare there would not be anything wrong with offering such a scout a mock EBOR, but I don't think it should become standard practice.

In my mind the most valuable potential contribution a district EBOR can provide is a review of a situation where there is controversy or open questions about the record being presented. That is not something that a mock EBOR would help a scout with in any event.(This message has been edited by eisely)

Probably the closest thing we have to an absolute monarchy in the world today is the hereditary dictatorship in North Korea.

When it comes to pomp and circumstance, one does have to hand the prize to the Brits. They really know how to do it.

The last time I went to Philmont, the inprocessing medical staff had scales available and they used them. If they really are waving people through then this is the worst combination of messages to everybody. Better to have no limitations if there is no intent to enforce them.

I have never heard of a SM doing something like this. Nevertheless all the advice to move on is sound. Here are some additional points to ponder:

It was my impression that only the COR or IH can remove a member, youth or adult, from a unit. In this situation it is reasonable to assume that the SM has made whatever representations those authorities may want to hear and they have already gone along with the adverse action against the scout.

I would give serious consideration to requesting an EBOR at the district level, depending in part on how much documentation you have for the other eagle requirements.

I presume that neither the SM nor the CC have signed the eagle rank application, and would not do so if asked. While merit badges and other ranks are a matter of record at the council office, one thing that the unit still controls is documenting whether or not the eagle candidate has performed in one or more "positions of responsibility". I always took the SM's signature on an eagle application as affirming that the POR requirement has been met. Where is your son with respect to these requirements? Do you think that the prior unit would confirm what he has done?

There is a transfer form for scouts leaving a unit that the unit should provide if the unit is operating in good faith. Among other things this form is designed to assist scouts whose family may have moved to another town or state. If that form has not already been provided, your son should ask for it, and it should include confirmation of what PORs he may have held while a life scout. Regardless of the SM's personal feelings he should not be standing in the way of your son completing his eagle elsewhere, so you need to be sure you have everything you really need from your son's former troop.

I have never seen or observed a unit level EBOR. There is one important reservation I have about unit level EBORs. There was a bit of a scandal a few years back about a troop EBOR somewhere in Washington state as I recall. I am going off of memory here, so if someone has a better knowledge of the facts, please speak up.

As I recall the eagle candidate had declared himself an atheist rather publicly prior to the EBOR. His mother was deeply involved in the leadership of the troop, possibly committee chair. Apparently she was able to assert enough influence for the troop EBOR to wave her son through despite this. There was a bit of a public controversy and the council involved announced publicly that it would not seek to revoke the eagle.

Setting aside the merits of atheism vs some sort of belief in a higher power, a district EBOR would be far better positioned to deal with any situation whenever there is a bona fide concern about any aspect of the eagle candidate's qualifications. People do occasionally game the system and this should be harder to do with a district EBOR.

As a district approval authority for eagle projects I see mostly construction projects. Some of those are fairly unique based on a need identified by the scout himself.

The most unique project came from a teen age scout whose parents had gone through a messy divorce. He wanted to put together a brochure for the children of divorce drawing on his own experience and the experiences of other young people derived from interviews with these other children of divorce. His idea was to put together some helpful suggestions from the point of view of the child. He worked with the guidance counselor in his high school. As far as I know those brochures got published and are still being distributed.

I used a bent shaft paddle for the first time last week on a 50 miler on the Sacramento River. On the whole I would say that I was more efficient in my paddling. Anybody else have any experience with these paddles? It is not obvious to me just how changing the angle of the blade yields any advantage. Anybody care to explain?

good advice