Eamonn

I have to admit to not being an expert on Pocahontas.

And while still a "Brit" I wish you nothing but the best.

Still it seems to me that by her marriage to John Rolfe, and their son Thomas being English, she too became a "Brit"

As I say I'm not sure what the laws were in 1616, when she went to England.

I do however think that if her son and husband are buried in England, we have no right to be undoing what has been done.

I see no need for a bunch of bylaws.

Bob White has hit the nail on the head.

Over the years I have held most Leadership positions, and when the subject has been brought up, we have talked it through and noted that there is no upper age limit on the Scout Law and Oath. That along with the publications that Bob listed, has always worked well for me.

With reference to the boy who turned up for ten minutes for a pack service project:

There are no gold star awards in the Cub Scout Program, for community service - Who is not following the rules now ??

In Cub Scouting the benchmark has to be that a boy does his best, do we know why the boy could only spent ten minutes ??

Depending on the age of the Cub Scout, who signs off that he has or has not done his best ?

Seems to me that we open a real can of worms when we mess with the program and start adding our own sets of rules.

Hey joni4ta,

A little bird tells me that if you need some extra socks, KoreaScouter, can help you out.

He now has extras !!!

I think that the two signatures are more for the unit then for the bank.

Nothing to do with Scouting But ...

As a rule I don't write checks,on our "Family Account" But some time back I went to the Doctor, I think it was cos old age is here and now need a yearly check up.

Anyway, I wrote a check, and somehow didn't sign it.

And yes our small town bank cashed it.

The bank president has a son in a local Troop, and is on the Eagle Board of Review Committee, when I quized him about it (So is the Doc, as advancement chair)

He said "Oh well they knew it was you, and how flusstered you get !!"

Go ahead make my day.

I seem to be really busy this year attending Eagle Scout Courts Of Honor.

Which is great.

Needless to say some are well run and some need a little help.

One unexpected good thing that has arisen from attending these, is that number one son (Not that hard as he is an only child.) Has made a start on his Eagle project.

He informs me that he is going to build planters, at waist level for people in wheel chairs and those who have problems stooping, in a local assisted living village. It seems that all systems are go.

All the signatures are in the book, plans are in hand.

Now it is just trying to fit it in, what with trying to get the new Venture Crew up and running, the Drama Club, Staffing JLTC, being the Brotherhood Chair of the OA lodge, and keeping the grass cut.

This is the hard bit !!

Still I have a feeling that him seeing the other lads that went to the Jamboree, with him, and many of these lads also being active in the lodge,as Eagle Scouts, will spur him on.

At this stage I'm very happy to do nothing. In fact that is what I will do. This is his Eagle.

Come the day, I plan to play the part of the proud Dad, Her that must be obeyed, is taking bets that I will cry.

I really want to load him up with all the neat stuff, from the President and lots of other important people. One lad a year or so back had a letter from Bob Hope, and others have had a letter from the Pope.

How do I go about getting all this neat stuff ?(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

ASM514

I have just looked at the time that I posted that. It was late and ....

Please forgive me.

All the staff have earned their Wood Badge.

And I have completed both the Scout and Cub Scout Wood Badge.

The four with past experiance, are people who have staffed before.

It was (and Boy, I expect to get heck for this !!) when we had the old course, common to have a bunch/ group of staffers who did little else but staff Wood Badge courses. We have one chap in our Council, who has staffed over twenty times. ( Don't tell anyone but he is now our area president.)At times and over time, some of these Staffers, started to add all sorts of "Stuff and Nonsence" To the course: I have seen a Scoutmasters Chair toted from place to place. Everyone watching what the Scoutmaster was wearing, and then quickly changing, in order to be dressed the same way. The addition of all sorts of Gilwell patches, to uniforms. Scout staves and thumb sticks, along with other tomfoolery, which they thought added something to the course and may have at the time been a lot of fun.

The fact is that it did little to enhance the learning experiance of the participants. Sad to say some even came away with the idea that this stuff was Wood Badge.

Much as I kind of like the idea of being elite, the nearest that I have managed so far in almost 50 years was in reaching the rank of Queens Scout,and maybe for a while the Scouts in my troop thought of me that way, sad to say it didn't take them very long to see that, while we were doing everything possible, to be the elite troop, so was every other troop, and their Scout Leaders were every bit as good as I ever was. In fact at that time some of the other Scout Leaders were my heros.

I have to admit to not being over keen on how le voyageur percives the District Advancement Committee.

They do not set the standards. These are set by the National Committee.

If I found out that anyone was holding the Unit Leaders feet to the fire, they would be gone in a heart beat.

They are there to serve, help and support the unit leaders and the Scouts that they too serve.

All members of the District Committee have to nominated, by the Nominating Committee, and then voted into office.

In my district we are doing everything possible not to use "Program People" to serve in district positions. At present our Advancement Chair, is a local doctor, who is an Eagle Scout. His office has done wonders keeping the Merit Badge List up to date, and our Eagle Board of Reveiw staff are an outstanding group of community minded citizens, many who have had little or no contact with Scouting, up till this point.

While they are prepared and ready to help any unit that may have a problem, we have found that in most cases these problems are better managed by the commissioner staff.

Many of the non- scout people are now getting the bug. Not to work with the boys / Youth, but are playing in golf outings, attending dinners and donating money to the council. They are also a super marketing tool for our District, bringing in more non-scouting types.

Of course once we have them, they then become Scout type people.

jborganjr:

Feedback is a gift.

Looking at some of your postings, I kind of, sort of get the feeling that maybe, could be, that you might have, could have, got, just a little bit more out of this experiance, then you might be aware of.

My great hope would be that sometime soon you will be asked to serve on the staff, and will be able to put to rights, at least some of the things that you felt were not so good.

When I first joined the Boy Scouts, back in England there was a law : A Scout smiles and whistles through all difficulties.

If you try to smile and whistle at the same time, you will find that you can't do it. The law was on the books from the early days of Scouting till 1969.

Sometimes things take a little while, the meaning was well intended, it just wasn't possible. Maybe there are things in the course that will change. If so let's hope that it won't take sixty years.

With all that lot,I can see how communication might be a problem.

From the list of past Scoutmasters, it also seems that it isn't a life long commitment.

We have one troop in the district, that has a list of everyone that ever was as their charter.Sad to say looking at the old charter and the new one this troop lost 23 Scouts last year.

While I have never heard of applying in writing for being the selected one. I think that with so many people involved it will save anyone from saying "They never asked me !!"

I do hope that your chartered partner makes a good and wise choice.

"Her That Must Be Obeyed" My Lady Wife, has been the Pack Treasurer for a good many years.

There are 3 names on the checking account,two signatures are needed.

Except in cases of dire emergency, she only writes checks once a month, at the Pack Committee Meeting.

At this meeting she gives a written Financal Report.

It is a standing joke, how tight she is with the money.

Over the years I think unit accounts have been the cause of more phone calls to me, then anything else.

I try and tell the Leaders, that it not their money, and that the best way to handle it, is to keep everything as open as possible, and keep good records.

Have to admit, that I found it a bit "Over The Top"

This might be a cultural difference.

However, there was a great teacher who in his day used a lot of parables.

So I don't have a problem with it.

What follows is true.

This past Sunday, I had the great honor to be invited to an Eagle Scout Court Of Honor.

Some might finf it strange, but it was for two boys from the same Troop.

Both are really Super Boys, both are very dear to my heart.

Both attended the last Jamboree, with myself serving as Scoutmaster. However I have seen these guys grow from Tigers all the way to Eagle.

Steve, is a bookworm, he set goals, knows where he is going and does everything possible to get there. One of his teachers wrote a poem to be read at the Court, which made the point that Steve would one day win a Nobel Prize. Steve comes from a very normal working class family.

Blaine, is also a really great kid, but has had a hard time all his life suffering from Attention Deficit Disorder. A more helpful, honest, caring young man would be hard to find.

These two have been through Cubs and Scouts, all the way. Blaines, family is very well off and in fact helped to pay for Steve to go to the Jamboree (Steve and his family still don't know )

They both spoke of their great friendship, and how they had done so much together.

Blaine, added that without Steve he would not be an Eagle Scout.

These two friends, both so very different, both helping each other and working hand in hand, are to me the picture of what Scouting is and what makes Scouting great.

How do you have a unit without a Chartered Organization?

I yield to the pro.

Article VI.Local Councils.

Section 3.

Clause 3. Charters for Community Units.

Says What the man of Steele, said.

In my district we have had a Crew, that was chartered by a Coffee Shop.

Sad to say the Coffee Shop went bust, and we lost the unit.

We have a pack and Troop that are Chartered by a Funeral Home. It has been a long and happy relationship.

The Kids are dying to join that one !! (Joke )

I just thought that jborganjr, would be pleased to hear, that thanks to a generous donation from the ABB company, the chairs that we are going to use are padded and have backs. They also donated the tables.

Like scoutldr,I too have spent many happy hours on e-Bay.

A little while back I found two posters that I had seen about a year before. I was all over the net, looking for these, and low and behold there they were both of them.I got them for $13.00 each, and E-mailed the seller to see if they could be shipped together.

It was kind of sad, the seller was the widow of a professional scouter, who was moving and selling all the Scout Stuff.

The reason why I had been unable to find the posters, was because they had been some type of an award for the pros.

Anyway I have them now, and I'm back on E-bay looking for frames.

There are all sorts of myths,half truths,and misunderstandings.

Sad to say that a lot of these come from those who ought to know better: Training Staff, District Committee Members, Commissioners and even the professionals.

These do cause a lot of frustration and at time ill feelings.

In my "Department" I find that I'm constantly having to explain what the district and the key 3 can and can't do.

Someone is unhappy about the appiontment of a unit leader or the way he or she is performing. What are we /me/ you going to do about it ? Why don't you kick him or her out !!

Wearing my other hat in Training. I hear, "I'm an Eagle Scout, you can't teach me anything new"

The list of ways people try to alter or change the program is unending. Then when it fails to work, they try to locate blame as far from home as they can.

I have had parents who thought that Tom Watt and Trails End are owned by the BSA.

People who think that the key 3 get paid !!

Then we have the police. Uniform Police, Fund Raising Police, Tour Permit Police and Advancement Police. This band of enforcers, will arrive out of thin air, ready to give 20 lashes of a wet Wood Badge to any and all of those who break the rules.

Many years back, I used to attend a very boring meeting, in an effort to bring some life to it, I would pick on some rule or something that wasn't really clear, and open it up for debate. I remember discussing, How to determine the sex of a fish!! If a Scout who spoke a dialect of Hindu, that only his mother spoke could use English as a foreign language or if the Hindu was the one to use for the patch.

We can all look for the something that is not clear.

But this is such a waste of time. We have a great program, let us all go out and deliver it to the youth. When there is that something that we don't understand, take a look at the easy things - The Methods of Scouting. The Scout Law and Oath and the Mission.

We can take along the Guide to Safe Scouting, in order to ensure that we are not too far off base.

And we the people who ought to know what we are asked have got to get used to telling people " I don't know, but I will get back to you."

Man Oh Man, there is a lot going on here.

If you came to me with this list. I think that my first reaction would be : "Hey Lady Slow down"

It does sound like you are to say the least, not very happy, and this makes it seem that you are looking for a fight.

Slow down.

Stop trying to fix everything.

Do One Thing and do it well.

Try and focus on becoming a team player.

Involve the Unit Commissioner. He or She is there to help sort things out.

If you(Yes you !!) are unable to do these things, maybe the best thing for everyone, is for you to go elsewhere.

At the end of the day we are the BSA, much as we strive for perfection, we will never be a utopian society. We do at times have to settle for the idea that a clock that has stopped, is still right twice a day.

Your comments regarding veteran awards and knots had me shaking my head. I don't care if leaders opt to wear these or not. It does really irk me, when those who chose not to make a point of telling everyone.

Just for the record, I do wear mine and wear them with pride, not only to let the world know "Been there, did that," But also to let the leaders in my district know that, you will be recognized for your good work. I wear my 35 year pin, because I'm proud and thankful, for everything that Scouting has done for me. I have many good friends in Scouting who choose not to wear them, of just wear the one or two that they feel are the most meaning to them.

I went to dinner the other night, with one of the "Old Timers". A real Gent.

He started talking about Training, and said that the best Training that he had taken so far, was Camp School, last year at Hawk Mountain.

What was the best Training Course that you ever attended ?

As far as I know, they are going for a Steele !!

I owed you that one. (Private Joke.)

Being full of wise words, and useless information these are worth what you can get for them, less what ever e-bay takes.

Being as you brought up Scout Stuff for sale.

I will hop in and ask if anyone knows, where I can lay my hands on a book

Scout Pioneering, by John Sweet.

Hope you don't mind.

Eamonn -Amen. Amen.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

This was my first try at a poll.

Things will get better.

The reason I stared it was because of some of the posts in other threads.

I like to think that I give all those who ask, the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I have asked course participants, not to use some of the material from the Camp Fire and one other presentation. In order that those who follow will see something "New".

In putting a staff together, I went for the best trainers in the council / Cluster.

We have a staff of 21.

4 Female.

2 Crew Advisors.

5 Cub Scouters.

4 With past Wood Badge Experiance.

We would have had more Cub Scouters, but there is a lack of Cub Scout Wood Badge Holders in our Council.

I have gone out of my way not to have the "Good Old Boys."

In fact many of these are not willing to change, and have gone into retirement.

At this time we have 36 deposits paid. Far more Cub Scouters then anyone else.

Some of the things that I'm doing are not sitting well with the other 3 past staffers. Mainly stuff about uniform and hats !!But this is how I'm interpreting the Staff Guide, and when all is said and done, I'm the Course Director. Yes I know how bad that sounds.

One thing that was in the old Boy Scout Wood Badge, that isn't in this new one is the 30 day meeting. While I have no intention of re-writing the syllabus. I wish that we still had it.(Yes I know that the Council next door still holds it, but it is not in the syllabus.)

I have looked over the letters that I have sent out, and ok, there is talk about a "Mountain Top Experiance" But that is about all the "Hype" That I see. At the end of the flier I made it a point to add "Training Never Ends" This is also very clear in the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training.

The course will be looked at and I feel sure that some things will be changed. However if we all make changes there will be no benchmark. So we need to do it as it is in the syllabus in order to make sure that the changes if and when they come will be worth making.

Sometimes life is strange.

Earlier this week, I received a phone call from a man, who owned a Department Store in our district, he said that he wanted to get involved in Scouting. He is an Eagle Scout, and wanted to give something back.

I made an appiontment to meet him for coffee. We met today.

I thought that maybe he just wanted to give me a check. But as is normal, I was wrong. He wanted to get involved and really do something. As luck would have it,I had put together a packet, with an outline of all the programs and the district structure. He said that he wasn't sure what he wanted to do.

I was tempted to let him off the hook, and go home and think about it, but didn't. The more we talked, it became clear that Marketing was his thing. So he left our meeting with the idea of helping out with marketing, the packet and a copy of the Council calendar.

Tonight, I had a meeting with the head of our local United Way. I was "Milking " Her for contact people so that I could get my foot in the door of some of the local businesses. We got to talking about my earlier meeting and she let me have it. Deservedly so.

She asked if I had given the man a job description ? I had to say no.

The reason why ?

I don't have one.

I do have all the Highlights Books, but is there a basic list of Job Descriptions, out there someplace.

Your Help, would be great.

Thanks,

Eamonn

This past Sunday, I was the guest speaker at the Eagle Scout presentation, of the young man who attended the Jamboree, he had been with me at the National Jamboree.

He said that he had really enjoyed Thailand.

As a service project, he and his patrol had planted a flower bed at a local school. Other patrols from all over the world were performing various projects at the same time.

Near the end of the day the School had asked if each patrol would Dance their National Dance.

Kenny, is a great kid very outgoing. But this one nearly had him beat.

They waited, for some of the other patrols to do the dance.

When it was their turn they got up and sang and danced "I'm a little Teapot"

Boy what I would have given to see that.

There are reports that information about the Wood Badge Course is :

Unavailable.

Unclear.

Hard to get.

Cloaked in Mystery.

What are your feelings ?

Finding out about the Course, and the course was:(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Many, thanks for all your input.

I have a lot taken a lot of what has been brought up, to heart.

While, I think that the BSA, does a really good job, with training, and I am a Wood Badge enthusiast. I have tried to read these postings with an open mind.

It does seem that we need to remember that this is a new course.

I first took Wood Badge back in 1972, at Gilwell Park, London.

Going to Gilwell,was no big deal. We as a Troop camped there a lot as it was not that far away. It had a good Pionnering Store, where we could "Sign Out" all the ropes,poles,and stuff needed to build all sorts of pioneering projects.

That was at the Camp site.

The Training Grounds, were hallowed ground. More like a cricket green then a place for real Scouting.

At the course that I attended, the Scoutmaster was held up in such high esteem, that he was almost unapproachable. Not like any Scoutmaster that I ever had or aspired to be like.

We had a great time, I made friends that are lifelong and really true friends, in fact while in England last year OJ,(My son) and I spent a week at summer camp with a fellow Cuckcoo, and his troop. Camping in Nottingham Forest. On the course we spent a week of non-stop rushing, mainly doing things that a Scout would / could/ or might do. Our Patrol was one of the lucky Patrols, all the Guys (No gals!!) were "Practical type Scouts." Most of the "Stuff" assigned for us to do we had done before. All good fun, made better by trying to out do, the other patrols. But looking back, I wonder how much did we really learn ?

The focus was getting this done and joining the Wood Badge set.

The Cub Scout Leader Trainer Wood Badge course, was a week of very intense training. Again a very enjoyable time, but the course could have been run at the Holiday Inn. The Camp site, the Critters, the songs were there as part of Wood Badge, but really had very little to do with preparing me to be a better trainer.

Today, we have Wood Badge for the 21st Century.

We have to look at it for what it is.

It is one portion of the Training.

It is very important that we try and get away from the idea, that is the be all and end of all training.

First it must follow the other required training's for the position. But it is not the end.

When I wanted to be a better Commissioner, I took myself to Philmont for the Conference, and attended the Commissioners College.

There are all sorts of opporttunities, to enhance, the training that you have already taken.

I suppose, the BSA,could build a Wood Badge Training Center, where everything would be, just so.With the brightest and best presenters. But I would hope that part of Wood Badge is the development of the Trainers. It is the job of the Course Director, to ensure that this presenter is up to speed, in order that the paticipant feels that the time and money invested, were worth while.

Yes they would be able to provide the ideal setting, but how accessible would it be ?

It does seem that the going rate for the course is about $200.00, and while most Councils are having a hard time providing the ideal facilities, they are doing the best that they can with what they have.

Many Thanks.

Being as this is in the District Guide, it looks to me as if the key 3. ought to handle it. Not sure why it is listed under Finance?

Think the poor Scout Exec. Might act as a red rag to a bull, so I will leave him be.

I had this nice idea, of me acting out my role as FDR - Oh well.

This will take some doing. It is not on the calendar, and I hate to add more stuff. I feel that Scouting does at times take people away from home and family too much.

If I'm not careful, it could turn into a " **** Session," where the ony thing that will happen is that someone will end up with hurt feelings.

The two dogs are a very lazy English Setter, and a Lassie look a like Collie.

Where can I get a Pit Bull on loan ?

This will need a little thought.

I'll get back to you.

Hey !! Can you use a Collie on Leader Sheep ?