eagle1977

I sure wish my older brother had known about LNT back in the mid 70's. My patrol and I spent a whole afternoon picking "black jelly beans" that seemed to be all over the trail on our nature hike!

As a returning Scouter of just over eighteen months after having taken a few decades off. I wanted to share my thoughts on this subject. I was an active youth member attaining Eagle at 17 along with a palm. I also earned the recognition of my faith and earned a Catholic religious medal. Now that I have returned to Scouting I proudly wear my two youth related knots. I look around at some of the other Scouters in my district and have many f the feeling already expressed in this thread. However, I would like to be able to show my renewed dedication to Scouting and be able to wear an adult re

I went to Philmont in 1975, also. We went by bus from western PA with an itinerary similar to yours. Our bus driver was very experienced in the trip having driven the council contingents there for several years and used it as a vacation with his wife while we hiked. (His wife flew out and met him in Denver.) We stayed at military bases most of the way back and forth which was very cost effective. Visited Carlsbad Caverns, Six Flags over Texas, and even spent an afternoon in Juarez, Mexico. Wish I had good memories of La Junta though. Most of our crew lost all their patches from unifor

I was astonished to see a Code of Conduct posted in my son's pack meeting room. There was nothing but negative statements of what they could not do. Way too many statements of No this and No that. When my wife and I suggested something more empowering; telling the boys what they could do, more along the lines of the Scout Oath and Law we were scoffed at. I think we, as adults, tend to lose sight, from time to time, about this being a program about the boys. I am my pack's advancement chair and I have to constantly remind myself of the importance of recognizing every achievement every

Thanks to all that took the time to respond. Many great ideas and suggestions. We know one of the lifeguards at the local Y and I will follow up with him to see if there is a procedure already in place for this.

Is there a requirement of having a BSA qualified lifeguard to earn this pin?

mmhardy, perhaps not too much tongue in cheek. Even you pointed out in your last post "the recent U.S. Air Force decision to buy tankers from Airbus rather than Boeing". The Federal government wants to buy everything for nothing. Unions have become big business themselves. They pay the white collar people too much, not too mention the blue collar worker. CEO's are obscenely compensated for their input to the bottom line. Insurance companies of all types are simply legalized swindlers, they charge large premiums and return as little as possible to the insured when they are in need. People

Why are we not addressing the actual problem here? How can we continue to act as though We, the People are not at least part of the problem here? We do not want to pay for a automobile that is too expensive. We do not want to assist in paying the cost of supporting a living wage (and to those of you that will say it, I do not support the excessive union caused wages, they have long ago abandoned the role they were established to attain!). As an American I would not be willing to pick lettuce, tomatoes, or any other back breaking agricultural product for less than the money required to feed

It is simply amazing to me that we Americans are willing to place the blame for the current economy on anyone or everyone else. Look at the rise of the big box stores throughout this country. When was the last time you visited your local small hardware store to purchase the nuts and bolts you needed? When was the last time you shopped in a locally owned grocery or department store? We want to earn the highest salary and only pay the bare minimum for the goods and services we need to survive. The rise of Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Kroger's and other nearly national chain stores prov

It is simply amazing to me that we Americans are willing to place the blame for the current economy on anyone or everyone else. Look at the rise of the big box stores throughout this country. When was the last time you visited your local small hardware store to purchase the nuts and bolts you needed? When was the last time you shopped in a locally owned grocery or department store? We want to earn the highest salary and only pay the bare minimum for the goods and services we need to survive. The rise of Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Kroger's and other nearly national chain stores prov

Welcome aboard, Frank from a former PA resident. Lived for 28 years in Altoona and Indiana then I joined the Army and have been rather nomadic since.

First a little background . . . I live and volunteer my time to scouting in a military town (I am in my first year as a returning scouter after a significant break). The overwhelming majority of our cubs and their parents are either members of families with active duty soldiers, reservists, or veterans. Our local division has been deeply embroiled in the second Iraq War, having led the invasion and with subsequent redployments. Now to the issue . . . the Pack Leader, his wife, and several other leaders and committee members wear yellow ribbon pins on their Class A uniforms. Is this a

Okay, Bob White, you win. I am going to concede your point. I realize now that most of my youth career in Scouting was simply an exercise in "urban legends". Even my Bobcat badge was pinned on me upside down with my Den Leader intructing my parents when to turn it upright. I will simply quietly remember to myself my adventures at Philmont. Hmmm, I wonder if the admonition I heard whispered to me during my Ordeal was simply an urban legend, too!

Bob White said, "I am sure that in your training as a scout leader and a professional scouter you also learned that the BSA program and its traditions are not determined by clerks at a scout shop in New Mexico. The tail of the bull's tail is an urban legend. It simply is not true that you must climb the Tooth in order to sew the tail in a pparticular position. You were misinformed. There was no way that as a 15 year old you would have known. The question now becomes, do you know now, and will you choose to continue passing along the false information or will you help others to unders

Bob White said, "The only comment that I and others have made is that that there is no significance to the position [o]f the tail." I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you because it has significance for me.

Bob White you said, "Wear the tail on the bull whever you want it does not signify ANYTHING." I think that is where the problem lies. To many of us that have been to Philmont, on a trek, it does signify something. As has been stated by many of the participants of this thread we were told by the staff at the Tooth of Time Trading post how to wear it depending upon how we treked. We did not simply make it up. I did not decide with malice to sew the bull's tail over the shoulder. It was never my intention to disregard a uniform policy. I simply did it because I was instructed to. What

While you say that you implied no harm you continue to imply that those of us that wear the bull over the shoulder are doing it wrong. Also, you directly say that we are spreading false information. As I have stated previously, I was informed by the staff at the Tooth of Time Traders on how to wear the patch. I think from having read the posts here that I was not alone. We were simply following what we thought was a "tradition". Perhaps the staff should be told to stop their suggestions!

Bob White says "Seems if enough scouters do the wrong thing for a long enough period of time...before you know it...you got yourself a 'tradition'." Seems this is turning into a knock down drag out fight. Certinly not my intent when I replied to this thread. However, I am not entirely sure the harm done by following what you believe to be true, especailly when nearly every respondent has the same story about why they placed the bull as they did. I, personally, meant no disrespect to the BSA.

"urban legend? seems that if it has been around for years, it makes it to "tradition" status. when i went 20 years ago, no one in my troop had ever been. i heard about the tail over the shoulder in the trading post at philmont. " I agree with this statement. While I completely understand that neither the BSA Uniform Guide nor anyone "high-up at Philmont" has an official position on the matter of the tail's placement it is certainly more than an urban legend. The only difference from Bulldog's statement is my conversation took place 33 years ago. Claiming that it is a mere urban legend

"The insignia Control Guide has the exact location for the Philmont Bull and the Charles L Summers Loon that is also worn on the red jac shirt on the shoulder in the same location." Having just looked at the site I did not see a relevant topic in the list. Could you please provide a link? As to the myth . . . I was a young and impressionable scout when I was told by my Ranger that my crew would be able to wear the tail over our shoulders since we climbed the Tooth. Would be interesting to see it in writing from the BSA though.

I was simply going with the flow of some of the other posters. I have seen references to watching the sun rise from the top of Baldy, so must one climb to the peak at night? Or is that just another tall tale related to some people and their Philmont experience?

I guess I can wear the tail over the shoulder on both accounts then. My trek was just over 70 miles and we climbed to the top of Baldy (in daylight) and over the Tooth. Interesting details about the new jac-shirt. Mine is in the attic because I have not been active for a while. I am now renewing my interests to encourage my own 10 year old to participate in Scouting.

I proudly wear the bull over the shoulder seam on the left side of my jac-shirt. The reason for this is I was told in 1975 that I was entitled to this placement because I climbed the Tooth of Time. Don 807-H-4 (1975)