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  • Sex Segregated Programs Good?

    Maybe Scouting has had it right all along:

  • #2
    Boys and Girls are different, and so they need to learn things differently.

    They develop different capacities at different rates, have different activity needs and capabilities, and quite plainly do not get much benefit from co-mingling until roughly middle-school age.

    I'm going to go look for references for these assertions, because something tells me what may seem like common sense to scouters is less common than it is sensible.


    • #3
      Just another way to reinforce gender differences beyond the physiological ones.

      Next thing you know we'll start segregating (again) based on religion and race.


      • #4
        Just another way to reinforce gender differences beyond the physiological ones.

        Interestingly enough, I think da actual research on da subject suggests otherwise. I remember readin' a piece by the head of a boys school that explained how in single-sex environments some boys take on traditionally female roles - they read more, they take on community support and caregiving, etc. Just as in all-girls schools, girls take on more traditionally male tasks, eh? More science and math, etc.

        I'm fond of real diversity myself, eh? I don't mind Catholic schools and Jewish schools and Islamic academies. Most of 'em do a fine job with kids, often better than their public school counterparts. I don't mind single-gendered environments either. I don't even mind single-race environments when there's a need to be served. Remember when some cities were developing African-American boys academies to address da specific needs of that population? Just seems logical if yeh find that a population is being neglected by da regular system.

        That's the thing about liberals, eh? They get all dogmatic about stuff that's really empirical, and should be considered with an open mind. .

        If single-sex education works for scouting, why wouldn't we consider it for schools?



        • #5
          Recent major study on the topic says it is ineffective.

          "sex-segregated education is deeply misguided and often justified by weak, cherry-picked or misconstrued scientific claims rather than by valid scientific evidence."

          It's just one study. You need a mountain of studies that are all peer reviewed generally considered bullet proof before you can even say you have a good theory.

          Looks like the conclusion right now is "Maybe, maybe not."

          > single-sex education works for scouting

          There is no data that supports this conclusion.(This message has been edited by BSA24)


          • #6
            I went to a traditional college with only women as resident students. The resident program went co-ed while I was there. The first year there were two men, the next year about 1/6 of the resident students were male. By the end of the second year, the elected student body president and vice-president were male, positions formerly filled by young women. I find this to be a loss to the school and the experience it offered, that allowed young women to stretch and grow in less-expected ways.

            But, having said that, I think that such experiences shouldn't be mandated. Choice is good. Not every girl will benefit from a sex-segregated program, nor will every boy.


            • #7
              I hate to say this, but I'm willing to bet for every study that says mixed gender is best, you will find a study saying that single-gender is best.

              Now I admit I'm biased towards single gender school as I went to an all male Catholic HS. I know I did better there than some of my peers who went to the public HSs. BUT there were not many of them as almost every parent who could get their kid into a private school did so, including those parents who worked for the public school system like my mom, and one girlfriend I had whose parents were principles.


              • #8
                Hello Eagle92,

                My favorite case study was a family I encountered that had two very charming and precocious children along with a very charming and precocious wife.

                She said that she home schooled her children while her husband was a high official in the state teacher's association!

                I thought that was very amusing.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)


                • #9

                  I got another similar one. Local college has a PhD staffer in their education department who not only home schools his own kids, but is big on the state level home school association.


                  • #10
                    Should the student tailor his or her actions to accommodate the educational system or should the educational system tailor their teaching approach to accommodate students?

                    In most elementary schools girls do better. They tend to have better manual dexterity (i.e. can hold a pencil/crayon better) at an earlier age than males. Girls also tend to read social cues and have more of a capability to work well in groups.

                    Males have a more difficult time sitting still and quietly for extended periods of time. Look at the top 5% of students at most public high schools - they are overwhelmingly female (grade based).

                    Now look at the top 1% of SAT/ACT scores - they are dominated by males.

                    Each sex has there own strengths and weaknesses as a whole and many individuals don't fit that norm.

                    Like the other topics on Chinese or USA apple juice - choice is good!


                    • #11
                      A Little background: I have 1 Webelos, 2 Tigers, and Daisy, and a wife that is a very involved GSUSA leader.

                      I would love to have a co-ed program.

                      More specifically, I would love to have a program for girls that is as well run as the BSA's Cub Scout program is. I find the current Girl Scout program as it is delivered and run by the local council to be a disorganized trainwreck with little or no support for leaders.


                      • #12
                        wahooker said: "A Little background: I have 1 Webelos, 2 Tigers, and Daisy, and a wife that is a very involved GSUSA leader. I would love to have a co-ed program. More specifically, I would love to have a program for girls that is as well run as the BSA's Cub Scout program is. I find the current Girl Scout program as it is delivered and run by the local council to be a disorganized trainwreck with little or no support for leaders."

                        My family's experience with GSUSA reflects what you are saying in your post. We found the program inconsistent and lacking at the Troop level, and the national and council leadership offered little in the way of support. BSA, with all its faults, still provides a basis for a national and effectively consistent program. My wife has given up GSUSA as a leader and camp nurse(she has some horror stories from that experience) in favor of AHG with its more BSA aligned approach.

                        Our sons and daughters are loving the promise of AHG and BSA integration for "family" events. I think it makes sense to have parallel programs with different focuses and goals, but with similar and potentially cooperative methods.


                        • #13
                          Cub Scouting is family scouting, but a properly run troop it is not and families should not attend as it interferes with program delivery. Sorry mom, dad and sister should stay at home so Scout son has the oppurtunity to find himself and gain confidence and skills.

                          Your children are still young, But boys and girls in the 11-15 year bracket don't mix well. The boys acting as leaders will lose their minds if a pretty girl is present, seen it happen too many times on family night or at the pick up times...... I have a scout with an older sister, I feel like a dirty old man, She is amazingly pretty and knows how to handle the boys......they do their macho king of the hill routine when she is around.

                          The AHG is not a good fit.....Their christian only, married only, no gay members is no longer a good or proper fit. I hope we recede the mutual support agreement soon.

                          There have been some reports and storys of AHG bulling their way into scout only events citing this mutal support agreement.

                          Our council has gone so far as to add a statement to all of our training flyers saying that the training is only available to registered BSA leaders, This is one of the only things they have done that I support.


                          • #14
                            I have read that women are less-likely to take the lead in any discussion where men are present. This is not due to any physical difference between the sexes, but it is a result of cultural biases which we subconsciencely teach our children. Of course, there are MANY exceptions to this norm, and we have some very NASTY names for such women. Anyway, girls and women are more likely to take and accept leadership roles when men are absent, so Girl Scouting IS the right place for them. Our public education system does not really teach leadership on purpose. They teach reading, and writing, and math and science and history. The way they teach require students to sit down and be quiet and pay attention, so I'm not surprised that mixed gender schools are able to successfully teach our children. And, I am very pleased to have my daughter registered with the Girl Scouts, and my son registered with the Cub Scouts. My daughter is able to tag along on Cub Scouting activities more often than my son is allowed to tag along on Girl Scouting activities, but they don't really seem to mind. My daughter is older than my son, and she is starting to lose interest in the things he is doing.


                            • #15
                              Those of you who think only sex segregated scout programs work should come see our crew meetings on the local, district and council levels sometime. The young ladies are not at all intimidated about taking the lead from the guys and often do. As I have mentioned in my previous posts, our Venturing Crews in my council run like well oiled machines. We all pitch in to make sure the youth and adult leaders get the best training and experiences in all our crews, as a result all of them have strong programs and continue to grow each year. We are all so well organized and well trained that the SE comes to us to head up and organize council training as well. If the BSA ever does make all programs coed, like in other parts of the world, we all might be in for quite a positive surprise.


                              • Basementdweller
                                Basementdweller commented
                                Editing a comment
                                Ya Baden, I have seen the young ladies step up to be leaders in the venture crews as well.....Very simply the boys are burned out and happy to accept someone else doing the planning.