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Adult Registration - DOB Mandatory?

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  • Adult Registration - DOB Mandatory?

    I am setting up two new parents as Tiger Adults and they are hesitant to give up their birth dates due to privacy concerns.

    While I can relate with their trepidation, is it mandatory for the BSA to have this exact information, and is it publicized anywhere I can show them why?

    Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    Last time I had a parent fill out an application and have concern about information, The DE contacted the COR and let them know that the application was not approved.

    Comment


    • #3
      I can see two reasons that information is required. 1. Background check 2. Know if you are 18 or 21 (I would hope you are 21 with a six year old). The only place I know BSA makes your DOB available is to the unit "key 3" on the new myscouting.org site and on the charter documents. I don't believe it is publicized. They unit may keep this information in advancement tracking software (we don't). It is also required on the medical forms or any overnight. Are you registering them as leaders ? The ScoutParent program has been discontinued. While I also understand their trepidation, Scouting is not for everyone. I wouldn't let an adult in my unit that would not disclose this very basic information.

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      • #4
        It's common sense. You can't get an accurate background check without a DOB. From what I know, the minimum info needed to get a background check is name, date of birth, and social security number.

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        • #5
          They don't want to give their DOBs???? Why? Are they afraid that someone might send them a birthday card? I'd be curious as to what else they might be "hiding". Something doesn't gel here.

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          • Basementdweller
            Basementdweller commented
            Editing a comment
            Nice DC so tell me how many scouts have you lost over the adult application and the background check. I have lost 4.

            One failed three dropped after looking at the app

          • dcsimmons
            dcsimmons commented
            Editing a comment
            None over DoB. A couple of potential leaders refused SSN. A couple refused to list an email address, preferring to give it to me directly.

          • Basementdweller
            Basementdweller commented
            Editing a comment
            I suggest they don't put an email on the app.....

        • #6
          It goes into a computer system to which they have no control nor guarantee of reasonable safeguards. We all make decisions with our personal information based on our priorities. Can you assure them nothing bad will happen, nope. Can you tell them it's required to be a leader, yep. Can they decide not to be a leader based on that requirement, yep. As a guy who has been victimized by CC fraud and identity theft I can't say as I blame them.

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          • dcsimmons
            dcsimmons commented
            Editing a comment
            My personal belief is the more information that can be gathered in one place the easier it becomes for the bad guys. I'm probably not as picky as I should be but I have refused to take part in stuff outside scouting because they wanted all that same information without offering any assurances to its protection.

          • berliner
            berliner commented
            Editing a comment
            I had CC/IT as well but we are talking about a Youth Organization here ... Youth Protection - heard of it?
            I think giving name & D.O.B. for a background check is a real no-brainer.
            BSA doesnt keep your CC info, the scout shop actually black it out on the receits.
            And whoever wants to hide that basic info shouldnt be a volunteer with kids.

          • dcsimmons
            dcsimmons commented
            Editing a comment
            I agree Berliner, but, people still own their information. They have the right to own it, control it, and to refuse to give it with the consequences that go along with it. In my case, I give mine to my employer because I'm not independently wealthy, the BSA and my church because I work with the youth in those programs. My office works with Chicago Public Schools on a reading program. While I wanted to participate I refused to give my PID to CPS for yet another background check and yet another organization with my info volunteered by me. The consequence is I don't get to participate in a great program, but, it's a personal choice to exercise a personal freedom. I certainly won't judge these parents for making the same choice to exercise their personal freedom. It's possible the BSA will lose scouts which is sad but everybody in the organization makes a choice of whether to be here or not.

            One other thought on the CC stuff at the scout shop, that probably has more to do with PCI compliance than anything else. The payment card industry has detailed rules about what does and doesn't constitute reasonable security in payment card environments. Not storing CC numbers and only printing the last 4 digits of the CC number on a receipt are a PCI requirement, not a BSA invention.
            Last edited by dcsimmons; 09-25-2013, 07:57 AM. Reason: added thoughts about PCI

        • #7
          These are Tiger Adults not actual registered leaders we're talking about. They are just filling out the parent section of the Youth Application. I just looked at it and it doesn't ask for a SS number. I'm pretty sure that they don't run background checks on Tiger adults and they don't require they take YPT. So it's as likely that the information is there as much because it's always been there as that there is an actual reason for it. I would just send in the application without the date of birth, you can ask a DE or SE why they need that information, and they'll probably give you a reason but it won't be the real reason because they don't know. Another possibility is to have them put in a generic DOB, I've done that on things like Facebook, I'll put in Jan 1st and my actual year of birth.

          Comment


          • #8
            I have to add that my experience with BSA computer systems has been uniformly atrocious. I have no reason to believe that their computer systems are very secure, I just hope they're too small a target for serious identity thieves.

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            • #9
              I routinely turn in youth apps that have the birth date of the parent left blank without a problem. I don't think it means anything nefarious, just that the parents are self-conscious or cautious about their personal information.

              For adult applications,, I've had issues with people not willing to give their driver's license number or Social security number. I don't blame them, they don't know me or the BSA and it's a leap of faith at best. I've never had a leader balk, though, just parents or guardians who do not live at the same address as the scout.

              Comment


              • dcsimmons
                dcsimmons commented
                Editing a comment
                I can't blame them for balking on the SSN or DL. In Illinois all drivers licenses are of the form X999-1234-5678. The X999 part maps to a unique last name, the 45 part is the year of birth and the 678 part is the date of birth.

            • #10
              Gee, I remember the day when my Driver's License had my name, address, DOB on it. Oh, and by the way, the DL number was my SS number. It was also my student ID number when I was in college in the 1970's and twenty years later in the 1990's. Oh, how things have changed over the years. I especially like the denial of bank account numbers to strangers. Like already said, it's on every check you have ever written!

              Every time you leave your card with a waitress/waiter to "take back to the cashier, you run the risk of a double swipe, or rubbing of numbers. Your smartphone can be hacked by a passerby and your credit cards swiped by the same hacker walking down the street.

              I am more leery of people walking down the street who have the potential of stealing my identity than the BSA.

              As far as the argument of "having to show your papers." Grocery stores ask for it all the time when you buy a 6-pack, liquor or tobacco, buy a gun, pay your taxes, get a loan, pulled over by the police, cash a check, withdraw funds from a bank, and a hundred other times, except when you vote, then it is unconstitutional and will keep old people from voting.

              If people want to steal your identity, there are a ton of easier ways of giving it away than filling out a BSA application.

              Stosh

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              • #11
                It's a Youth Application (the Adult Partner), just turn it in. If BSA kicks it out, deal with it then...

                Especially if it's for the mom... my momma taught me to NEVER ask a woman her age.

                Comment


                • Eliza
                  Eliza commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes, exactly.

              • #12
                DOB is publicly available through information provided by the government. I can look up most adult's DOB on ancestry.com. It's not really private data.

                Comment


                • #13
                  A number of years ago, SM asked me to get a list from Council so he could see if Council advancement records matched pack records. I was handed a list that included all registered adults and their ages. Also, isn't there a blank spot for age on some trip forms?

                  For comparison, in Girl Scouts, adults are asked their birth dates, but the computer will not kick out the registration if you input 1/1/1900. Girls Scout adults who are applying as leaders get a code, which they then use when contacting a commercial background checking agency; all the GS Council gets re age is something like: '21-50', 'over 50.' So the Council simply does not have age info to give out.

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