Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

The diference, if any, between Pack overnighter and Family camp?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The diference, if any, between Pack overnighter and Family camp?

    I am a little confused and would like some clarification.
    Thanks

  • #2
    None as far as I know. All pack-level overnight activities require a BALOO trained adult and 1:1 adult supervision (parent attends).

    Comment


    • #3
      A semantic thing, camping is camping, an "overnighter" would be sleeping in a museum or church basement or gym thing. Its a cover-all, so people can't get around training rules in regards to camping, by saying "we're not camping, we're sleeping inside a polebarn at the nature preserve."

      Comment


      • #4
        It really depends on what you and your people make of it. And really, what matters is what it sounds like to the folks in the cheap seats!
        If I were a new parent, I would think that "pack overnighter" was for me and my son and "family camp" was for me, my wife, son, daughter ... maybe the dog and crazy old uncle Joe! But, not everyone thinks like me, so no matter what you call it, your announcement needs to be specific about who should and who may attend.

        Comment


        • #5
          I generally agree with qwazse's answer. Family camping for our units is less program structured and more fellowship structured. Family camping isn't limited to Cub Scouts though. It's an option for all the program levels, at least according to the definitions in the GTSS. FWIW:

          "Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply."

          Pack Overnighters are structured Cub Scout events. Not sure I agree with 00Eagle that Pack Overnighter's generally require 1:1 youth to parent attendance. The GTSS says " In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult." At one point my council issued guidance that the ratio of cubs:responsible adult should be no more than 3:1 or something like that. Can't find it right now though so maybe they rethought that publication.

          That's my $0.02 or so. Sorry to be quoting the book and all.

          Comment


          • ADCinNC
            ADCinNC commented
            Editing a comment

          • 00Eagle
            00Eagle commented
            Editing a comment
            DC, my comment was very much abridged and simplified. But for most cases (other than Webelos den camping and resident camping), Cub camping will be family camping where the boy is accompanied by a parent (and possibly the rest of the family as well).

          • dcsimmons
            dcsimmons commented
            Editing a comment
            That's cool.

        • #6
          In "BSA Speak" family camping is a council or district operated event, run by trained staff. It's not taking your family camping . If your council runs a "Dad and Lad" or "Mom and Me" or "Fun with Son" weeked end - THAT's Family Camping, in BSA's parlance. Our council also runs Family Camp at our two long-term Boy Scout camps. This is a staffed camp, with program elements, BSA swim and health form requirements for a week. Usually its the spouses and families of Scoutmasters who attend, but doesn't have to be.
          http://www.manypoint.org/content/family-camp

          Comment


          • #7
            My understanding is similiar to dc's.

            I taught a camping/overnighter course at our U of S last year and this is how I seperated things and much more experienced scouters than I agreed. It still may not be the "legal" terms but they work.

            Day trips: contained in one day no sleeping at the site
            Overnighter: A specific program that is run by a third party for the scouts. e.g. sleep over at NASA. 1:1 parent and child, extra attendance rules may be imposed by the site, like age limits and attendance limits. All programming planning is done by the third party. Hardest problems I've had are alchohol. e.g. campout at the baseball stadium and dad's drinking beer. Rules say no, I agree with those rules but the dad's aren't happy with me.
            Campout: Sleeping at a location either indoor or outdoor, all programming and planning is done by the pack. Campouts are open to entire families of scouters assuming the BSA rules are followed. e.g. No sleeping in tents with children not your own

            Comment


            • Sakitama
              Sakitama commented
              Editing a comment
              We had a similar issue (drinking at Scout Night Baseball) and it seems to me, the DE waved it off as a grey area cause the facility allows drinking and it was their event. I'm like this though, if you're going to go to an event with scouts and interact with scouts, don't drink. Scout leaders, don't 'hang out' with folks who are drinking. Saw multiple times that night, a man carrying a beer in one hand running back and forth to the stands to hand popcorn, hotdogs, etc to a Cub. I'm assuming the man was his father or granddad, but as I said, it should be a Zero Tolerance policy. No drinking when you're out with the Cub Pack.

          • #8
            Add me to the list of scouters who uses 'family camp' as pack camping with the whole family, and pack overnighter for any sleepover experience that is not camping. District cub camping are called Cub-O-Rees, Council cub camping is day, twilight or resident camp programs for dens or parent/son pairs.

            There seems to be regional differences in how the terms are used.

            Comment


            • #9
              In our Council, family camps are district level events for all Packs in the district (usually only once per year in our district). Pack overnighter is any overnight (camping or otherwise) with just your pack.

              Comment


              • dedkad
                dedkad commented
                Editing a comment
                That is how the terminology is used in our Council too.

            • #10
              Hey got a signal....family camping means mom and dad will bring booze.....beer or wine coolers...... generally cub scout rules don't apply. You cannot camp as a family at a boy scout camp unless it is with your pack or troop. Our unit has struggled with drinking and drug use by parents at the pack camp outs......then unwed parents and mommas boyfriend and the drama that follows...... I hate cub family camping

              Comment


              • dedkad
                dedkad commented
                Editing a comment
                Our Council allows anyone to camp at their Boy Scout camps for a fee, even the general public, as long as there isn't some big Scout event going on, like Day Camp.

            • #11
              Info Scouter is on the right track. Pack camping is organized by a pack (duh) under Guide to Safe Scouting policies and the supervision of pack leadership. Family camping is run by a district or council. In addition to G2SS, there are camp accreditations standards it must meet, just like a day camp or resident camp.

              From the new National Camp Standards:

              family camp. Family camp is a council-organized overnight or longer event for Cub Scouts
              (including Webelos Scouts) and their families that involves more than one pack where the council
              provides the staffing and program. These events are often referred to as parent/pal, mom and me, or
              adventure weekends. Family camps for Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, or Sea Scouts may
              also be accredited upon application of the council.

              From the stand point of a family attending the event, it doesn't make much difference, only for the people running it.
              Last edited by Twocubdad; 08-06-2013, 10:40 PM.

              Comment


              • ADCinNC
                ADCinNC commented
                Editing a comment
                Hi Twocubdad,
                While you are correct about National Camp Standards for District or Council "Family Camp", "Family Camping" can also be outside of the purview of the district or council, such as any Pack Camping involving family members: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...GSS/gss03.aspx

              • Pack18Alex
                Pack18Alex commented
                Editing a comment
                So there are three terms:

                Pack Overnighter: camping with your family in your pack, at an approved location and tour plan

                Family Camp: Council run program with multiple packs all participating. Multi-pack campouts must be approved by Council (and therefore Family Camp)

                Family Camping: this is when BSA families affiliated with a Pack, Troop, or Crew camp.

                As far as I can tell, Family Camping is almost the same thing as Pack Overnighter, except it's NOT limited to Packs (can include Troops/Crews). However, it looks like for Family Camping, you must include siblings, while a Pack Overnighter only includes siblings if you have age appropriate programming for them.

                Cub Scouts can do:
                Pack Overnighter
                Family Camp
                Family Camping

                Troop can do:
                Family Camp
                Family Camping
                Weekend Overnighters

                So the Troop cannot include parents without siblings, and our regional Cuboree is a Family Camp program, whereas when your Pack Camps out, it's either an Overnighter or Family Camping, with apparently minor differences.

            • #12
              So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

              Comment


              • Woodward
                Woodward commented
                Editing a comment
                Age Guidelines

                The Boy Scouts of America has established the following guidelines for its members’ participation in camping activities:

                Overnight camping by Tiger Cub, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved, and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America.
                Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps, pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping.
                Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts may participate in a resident overnight camping program operating under BSA National Camping School– trained leadership and managed by the council.
                A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den/troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                Alex KDD has no clue what he is doing or talking about so take his advice with a grain of salt...

                Cub Scout dens do not camp on their own....

                Here is a link to the G2SS and a chart I had never seen before.....Den Camping is only permitted at the webelo level.

                http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...GSS/gss03.aspx

              • dedkad
                dedkad commented
                Editing a comment
                KDD, you should have learned what your Council requires for overnight camping when you went to the BALOO training.

            • #13
              Terminology has nothing to do with it. Definition and how someone interprets G2SS. Based on the response, and I want thank all who have chimed in. It sounds like others also have issues with members of a Pack treating a Pack organized camp out (overnighter) as recreation Family camping and since Cub Scouts is Family oriented, all Pack activities include Families. My question is how far do we go to encourage following G2SS guidelines and our BALOO training to insure the safety of all attending pack activities and what are the ramifications should a serious incident be relayed to Council and they discover that the Pack could not help these families understand the importance of the guidelines.

              Comment


              • #14
                You do not "encourage" following G2SS during any Pack function. You follow it or you go home. End of story.

                Before any Pack camp out, the CC and CM need to send out a Do's and Don'ts list to every family and remind everyone that this is not a private camp out but a PACK event following G2SS. Those unable or unwilling to follow the rules should reconsider their participation. Those who can not follow the rules while in camp will be asked to leave. And you have to back that promise with action.

                Comment


                • Woodward
                  Woodward commented
                  Editing a comment
                  We do a Fall and Spring Pack campout. I had brought up the this subject at our last Committee meeting, our Fall campout is held on property that has not been approved by council and the response I got was " we have never followed The Guidelines for our Fall campout and we don't want to." This past year we had our first Spring campout and on Council property. I insisted that we follow G2SS and out of 20 Families we had all 5 families from my Den and the Cubmasters. We still had a blast, even in the rain.

                • Nike
                  Nike commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Excellent! Show off those photos! Sell the next event to the boys and then the parents.

                  The more you emphasize that you expect the pack adults to perform to standard, the more they will. The naysayers will either melt away/age out, or their kids will get tired of missing events and they'll begin to tow the line. Plus, the CC and CM team need look to your new families to begin filling in committee positions as naysayers leave.
              Working...
              X