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  • No Dog for Dog Care

    Shakin my head here.

    Had a lad turn in a Merit badge card last night for Dog Care merit badge. It was signed by a councilor from the district list, the boy did not consult me before taking it.

    I know the family and they do not have a dog. So I ask the lad how he completed it with out owning a dog, Thinking maybe he used the neighbors, grandparents dog. Well his explanation was he had a cat and it is basically the same thing.

    I am of the opinion of sort of the same thing.....But no you need a dog to complete the log and take care of for 2 months.

    Thoughts.

    I am going to call the councilor tonight and ask if the lad told him he owned a dog and if he presented the log book. Either the lad lied or the councilor is not living up to his obligations and needs counciled or removed from the merit badge list.

    Once the card is signed it is earned. But this is about as blatant a NO GO as you can get.

    Thoughts.

  • #2
    I dunno.

    If he completed Requirement 5 with a cat, I would award him the merit badge and the Pet Trainer of the Year trophy!

    Explain the correct way to obedience train a dog and what equipment you would need. Show with your dog any three of these commands: "come," "sit," "down," "heel," "stay," "fetch" or "get it," and "drop it."

    Comment


    • qwazse
      qwazse commented
      Editing a comment
      At Mallory Square in Key West there was this french guy who performed with trained cats. He made a decent chunk of change for his (their) efforts.

      Make sure the boy wasn't earning Pets MB instead.

    • dedkad
      dedkad commented
      Editing a comment
      And how can a MB counselor sign off an a card when he hasn't been shown that the boy's dog does these things? Ridiculous, but probably common.

    • Basementdweller
      Basementdweller commented
      Editing a comment
      I have the merit badge complain form filled out Just depends on what the council says as to whether or not I file it with council. The boy could have lied or took his neighbors dog over and show him tricks.

  • #3
    How did the boy get a MB card signed by his SM ? Sure he can take care of another dog but I wouldn't accept the cat. That may fall under the Pets MB. Check GTA 2013 7.0.4.7 Limited Recourse for Unearned Merit Badges You need to act swiftly, within 30 days. The Scout may have done the badge because he wants a dog. Hopefully what he did with the badge taught him how expensive owning a dog is. More than the cost of scouts in many cases.

    Comment


    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      Sorry I wasn't more explicit. How did he get a blank MB card period ?

    • qwazse
      qwazse commented
      Editing a comment
      If it's any consolation, I had a parent on my case when I told him his boy will have to earn Cooking MB since he won't make Eagle until next year. Figured I'd take one for the SM last night.

    • Basementdweller
      Basementdweller commented
      Editing a comment
      The merit badge cards are in the troop cabinet. No secret, heck he could have even had one left over from summer camp. No idea where he got it.

      Heck we had one mom years ago bought a pack of blue cards at the scout shop and tried to cub scout it.

  • #4
    My cat comes when called. Sits up and begs for treats and when it's on the kitchen counter and I tell it to "get down", he starts to dance.

    So what's the problem?

    Stosh

    Comment


    • Basementdweller
      Basementdweller commented
      Editing a comment
      no very helpful

    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      Wasn't supposed to be.

    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      Basement,

      You might need to be a bit older to understand the comment.

      Stosh

  • #5
    I think the boy got confused between Pet Care MB (easy) and Dog Care MB (work). Dog Care is really hard to do without access to a dog...

    Comment


    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      Maybe he has a girlfriend......

    • Twocubdad
      Twocubdad commented
      Editing a comment
      He be better of training a cat than a girlfriend.

    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      Boys: They are bouncing off the walls, running around chasing things, getting into trouble. Dogs are little men in fur coats.

      Girls: They are finicky, they lay around all day, and if you try to talk to them, they sit there and just give you "the Look". Cats are little women in fur coats.

      And please, do not forward these comments to my wife, she'll pounce on me and claw my eyes out.

      Stosh

  • #6
    Turns out the lad lied to the councilor.

    The merit badge councilor took the boy and moms word on the Dog training and log. Seems he had pictures of himself and a dog, not sure whose it is or was.


    There will be a discussion about honestly, then the card will be shredded.......

    You can yell at me and say you can't do that......Oh yes I can and will. Trying to make a point with the young man.


    I am sick of being lied to by scouts and scouters. My foot is down and firmly planted. If this is a deal breaker for the lad.....Sorry you can enjoy your scouting elsewhere because you didn't meet the merit badge requirements. I am done with the dishonesty.

    Comment


    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      Deep down I get the feeling that the emphasis on "getting Eagle" puts a lot of such temptation in front of the boys. Instead of enjoying and learning something with MB's, it seems (no evidence) that a lot of pencil whipping is going on. Okay, short cuts are taken and if one "gets away with it," no harm no foul seems to be a prevailing thought amongst scouts and their goal oriented parents.

      I do Bugling MB, have for years. The number of boys that start is kinda surprising, but the number of boys that don't bother to come back is even more surprising. Basically, the MB consists of: These are the bugle calls, learn them. Okay, expecting the boys to actually learn them and practice them so they can be used, is an overwhelming feat. I suggest it should take maybe 2-3 weeks of 1/2 hr a day practice to be somewhat proficient. And then, they never come back. It's kinda hard to cheat on this MB. Either you know it or you don't. It's the nature of the beast. Boys that have finished the MB honestly have provided a good service to their troops, but one still doesn't hear many bugle calls nor see the POR on many shirts.

      I'm sure there are other examples of MB's requiring some kind of measurable proficiency, but I don't teach them so others would have to comment.

      Stosh

    • Tampa Turtle
      Tampa Turtle commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree. We got so many boys trying to 'paper eagle' it. We had a meeting with an AWOL Patrol Leader who wanted his sign off for his term after missing many PLC's, Troop Meetings, and did not go on one campout. He is an 12 year old Star who transferred in from another local Troop and HAS to make Life for "his schedule" so he can beat his Dad who got Eagle at 14. We told him to look at the Troop requirements again for PL and come back and tell us if he really thinks he did the job. We'll see. His dad is a real piece of work--seems very critical of the lad so I do want him to be successful. But we told him no he is not gonna make his schedule because he just not ready on the leadership part (bangs out those MB Academy MB's though).

      When I do MBC I will try to be flexible IF the boy is really learning something and trying. But I get tried of communications and emails from the parents. And yes Scouters are part of the problem too. There are times I wonder how my own Son's completed some of these requirements.

      J Blake is right (scary I agree with him again ) We have had the same experience with Bugling MB. I hope my son who plays trumpet will step up. I have my Dad's old BSA Bugle from when he was Bugler in 1949. Seems like a fun job--get to wake everyone up at camp outs.

    • Oldscout448
      Oldscout448 commented
      Editing a comment
      Base, you are my hero of the day!
      My old SM was a huge gruff old WWII vet who loved us like his own sons and would go to hell and back for his "boys", but God help you if you lied or cheated.

      20 years after I aged out I was passing through the old neighborhood and stopped by to see/thank him. I was a new DL at the time so I asked if he had any advice for me. He replied " Do what is RIGHT and don't worry about what other people say."

      that's wisdom I've tried to follow for the last 18 years as a scouter

  • #7
    Good for you. I would have shredded the card based on not having it pre-approved.by the SM. Committing fraud by the boy AND his parent to get a non-Eagle required MB would be grounds for dismissal from the Troop. Life lesson. Sorry...I"m old school.

    Comment


    • Sentinel947
      Sentinel947 commented
      Editing a comment
      Why would it matter if it's a non-Eagle required?



      I think this is a great learning opportunity for the lad, cheating is never worth it. The hard way )actually doing things right) is worth the effort.

  • #8
    Yeah, that level of blatant dishonesty deserves to be kicked up a rung or two. Dismissal may be steep, but removal from PORs and an extended period of probation under which he is ineligible for advancement is certainly in order. Any SM conferences or non-advancement boards of review need to include the parents. Honestly, how we resolve things like this depends much on the parent's attitude. If we feel as the parents are supporting and working with us, we are much more likely to let them deal with the situation. If mom and dad come in with an attitude it won't go as well.

    Comment


    • Basementdweller
      Basementdweller commented
      Editing a comment
      You wonder why many don't view Eagle as much of anything any more.

      Thanks for the compliment. I will remain in the back of the room and provide a program where there would not be one otherwise. If you view me holding the boys to the standard and expecting them to repeat it as negative then so be it.

    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      Well Basement and I'll will both be in the back of the room along with Baden-Powell. I do believe it was BP who coined the phrase "Parlour Scout". He could tell the difference regardless of the patch on the shirt.

      Stosh

    • Oldscout448
      Oldscout448 commented
      Editing a comment
      1 They are not MY standards, they are the BSA standards. I have never added anything to any req. nor will I subtract anything. (unless the scout has some handicap which renders him unable ) If the book says demonstrate then I expect a demonstration not " I listened to some guy at camp talk about it. He said that it would count"
      2 If that makes me "negative or pompous" in your eyes, I guess I can live with that

      I guess I should add that if a scout comes to board of review, and has no clue how to do something he has been signed off on, I do not fail him for that. ever. But I do have a talk with who ever passed him off, and strongly suggest that they go over the skill again at the earliest opportunity
      Last edited by Oldscout448; 10-31-2013, 08:08 PM.

  • #9
    Before you shred the card, schedule a meeting with the councillor, scout, his parents and maybe your committee chair and scoutmaster, couldn't hurt to involve the unit Comissioner too. Start by has king the lad what the 1st point if the scout law is. Then allow a large enough shovel for him dig his hole. Shred when hole is complete.... Key is his parents should be there, and the others so there are witnesses to the 'falsehoods' told

    Comment


    • qwazse
      qwazse commented
      Editing a comment
      Although all the drama would make good theater. That's a lot of busy people to try to get in one room. SM and boy should be sufficient for whatever upkicking is needed. Remember that this whole thing started because a boy wanted to bypass interaction with the SM.

    • Basementdweller
      Basementdweller commented
      Editing a comment
      The Committee chair wants a piece of it as well.

      I am not going to bother the MBC again. he answered my questions honestly.

      Whats a unit commissioner, I am joking.....Unit commissioners are rare as hens teeth.....Why would they need to be involved in something this trivial.


      The lad and mom got caught lying.

    • Bando
      Bando commented
      Editing a comment
      Edit: Replied to the wrong comment.

  • #10
    BD, something still isn't adding up. Boy says he used his cat, MBC says he was shown pics of boy and dog.

    Mom would have a lot of Moxie trying to pull one over on the MBC .. and then, expecting the boy to keep his story straight ... Is she blonde by any chance?

    I'd still tow the line that your signature isn't on the card, and it is therefore null and void. (No need for dramatic shredding ceremony.) It would be unfair to the other boys if you'd let this one slide.

    Comment


    • Basementdweller
      Basementdweller commented
      Editing a comment
      I know the family my son spends the night at his house regularly, I know they do not have a dog which is why I even inquired as to the how, when, where and why. I asked my son about whether they had a dog in their house last summer, he said no.

      When I asked about how he completed the badge when he didn't have a dog, he said he used his cat to do the care log. ok, keeping a log is keeping a log right.


      When I called the councilor, the councilor said the boy had pictures of himself and a dog. I will ask to see the pictures and find out whose dog it is and the circumstances of the pictures..

  • #11
    ugh, this one really ticks me off. I am so glad they have finally allowed some way of recourse for when you know the Scout did not do the work. My younger son badly wants a dog, and the dog care badge, but he will not be getting a dog until he can work and pay for it himself.

    Comment


    • packsaddle
      packsaddle commented
      Editing a comment
      Qwazse, in order for that to work efficiently, it has to be really, really dark chocolate. And even that is no guarantee. In the night, our dog would sneak wife's purse off the table and extract the Hershey Kisses without disturbing the other contents, and carefully extract each from the foil. Next morning we'd find the purse on the floor with a little pile of foils and a really guilty-looking dog. That dog did 'guilty' the best of any I've ever seen. But she was a really sneaky dog and had lots of practice being guilty.
      Last edited by packsaddle; 10-31-2013, 02:33 PM.

    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      So does a dog attract or repel bears ?

    • packsaddle
      packsaddle commented
      Editing a comment
      What do you mean by 'attract'? Actually, bears will try to stay away from dogs, as demonstrated during numerous bear hunts with dogs. Bears get excited if dogs are around and as a result they might react unpredictably. Moreover, dog food most definitely IS attractive to bears, same as odoriferous human food. A bear conditioned to expect to find food might be attracted if they detect the presence of a dog.

  • #12
    So here is what I am going to do.

    I have emailed the SPL and asked for 10 minutes monday night to address the troop on the Hows of the Merit badge program.

    I will contact scout and ask him to bring the picture of the dog, the merit badge book or requirements and his mother. I will ask him to review the requirements and then ask him if he fulfilled them.

    He holds no POR, He will not receive the badge, I will not suspend him. He is a good boy for what ever reason decided to make a mistake over a completely stupid merit badge.

    I will mention that I am disappointed that he decided to lie to the merit badge councilor and he should do the right thing in the future.

    End of Story.

    Comment


    • MattR
      MattR commented
      Editing a comment
      If it were me sitting down with him I'd make a small change. Before I'd tell him he won't receive the badge, and he knows he did something wrong, I'd ask him what he thinks the right thing to do is. If he says he doesn't deserve the badge then he gets it, I'm not the bad guy, and it's a good lesson in the end. He may also whine, in which case I'd continue with your plan.

  • #13
    To follow up......I had a sit down with lad and mom last week.

    Had the merit badge book in hand and asked him So explain to me how you did #4 which is track your dog care for 2 months and you don't have a dog....and I spoke with you MBC and he mentioned he was led to believe you had a dog thru pictures and talking with you.

    So could you explain to me how you completed #4? He stumbled along that he should be able to count his cat, because it was a pet and he took care of it. I agreed there are similar, but a dog certainly isn't a cat.

    So the MBC believed you had a dog, what lead him to that conclusion????


    Well the lad manned up and said he had mislead the councilor, he was just about in tears. Mom sat there and didn't say anything. I asked him what I should do with the merit badge card???? He said to throw it away. I thanked him and mom for meeting with me. end of story.....

    I still get vibe, awe ya caught me from the scout.

    I have a young man that did personal management in a week, I have asked to see his financial records and will speak with the MBC if I have concerns after that......

    Comment


    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      I have 3 cats and 2 dogs. Care for them is a lot different. Cats can be left alone for a whole weekend. Dogs have to be let outside twice a day, minimum. I have one dog that thinks 50 is minimum. Care routine is vastly different. If the boy was serious about the MB, he would have to make a commitment with some neighbor to come over before school and after school and throughout the weekend to really take care of a dog. The MB is not as easy as one would think.

      I'm glad the boy fessed up and did the right thing.

      Stosh

    • MattR
      MattR commented
      Editing a comment
      BD, you'll never know if he felt he "got caught", but my guess is, if he felt he got caught he'd be angry with you. Since he was almost in tears, he probably knows he did something wrong.

  • #14
    Ha! It's the old "I didn't think adults talk to each other " thing, eh? Had the same surprise with my daughter when she was about 14.....

    Comment

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