POR potential problem

[Hunt 11]

Here's another potential "anomaly" that I hope I'm not dealing with, but suspect I may be. The Scout is going for his Eagle. In compiling all his records, it appears that for Star, the BOR may have counted assistant patrol leader as his POR. As I understand it, it's not on the list. But the POR requirement was signed off (I presume by the SM), and the BOR approved the rank. Is this going to be a problem for him?

[Bob White 20]

It shouldn't be. This is an error that should have been caught by A) The Scout, his handbook lists the specific offices he must hold for that requirement. B) the person who signed off the handbook, for the same reason. C) the Scoutmaster during the SM conference when he made sure the scout was ready for the BOR. D)The Board of Review when they reviewed that all requirements were met. E) All of the above

 

The correct answere is E. So there are no take backs on this requirement at this point. But I would would gather all the parties involved and let them know that they must all pay closer attention in the performance of their responsibilities to avoid potential problems in the future.

[evmori 11]

Unless he held another POR that can be used for rank, the answer is "YES".

 

Do you use Troopmaster to track advancement? If so, a flag would have gone up when this Scout was advanced in the software.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt 11]

Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on how you look at it), the potential blamees for this problem are all gone, except for the scout himself. I don't want to penalize him--I just want to know if his Eagle BOR will raise an issue about it, and if there's anything that can be done. I agree that everybody in the Troop, both adults and scouts, need to understand the process so these problems don't arise in the future.

[Bob White 20]

It is unlikely that this will be a problem since it was two ranks back.

[NWScouter 9]

There should be no problem. There is a part of the POR requirement that gives the option to the Scoutmaster to assign a leadership project (or words to that effect). So if it is signed off, the SM approved and like a blue card there is no going back on that. We must assume that the SM determined that APL was a leadership project or that he completed something else.

[evmori 11]

Do we have posters suggesting the SM say it was a SM project even if it wasn't? The list of POR's is also in the Boy Scout Handbook so it seems everyone is at fault!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[eisely 13]

I agree with BW that this should not be a problem. However, it all depends on how the Eagle BOR views things and the guidance they get from the District Advancement Chair. Depending on how comfortable you are with raising this subject, I would consider calling someone at the district level, or at least discussing it with your unit commissioner. Even if an Eagle BOR should reject the applicant on this basis, this is the kind of thing that is, or should be, a basis for an appeal. Of course no one wants it to get to that point.

[nldscout 18]

I see no problem here. There is not even a place on the application for star or life POR's, only the one you need for eagle. I would not look at it or even think about it it was so far back and you don't know what the SM's thought was at the time.

[NWScouter 9]

Ed,

I was saying not the SM should lie but that we have to assume that the person signing the POR felt that the Scout had fulfilled the requirement. The SM could have assigned the Scout a leadership project that was to be a APL. That is why when an authorized person (however the unit determines, but usually in this case a Scoutmaster)has signed, we have to make the assumption that it has been pre-approved and the scout has fulfilled the requirement.

 

[evmori 11]

NW,

It is also possible that this one just slipped through the cracks! It is possible this Scout was appointed by the PL! While I don't want to see a Scout denied something he has earned, by lying or changing the facts to satisfy a requirement is just wrong.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt 11]

I think it's unlikely that anybody will remember exactly what the SM had in mind--he's gone, and the scout doesn't remember. There may have been some other leadership project I don't know about (and that the scout doesn't even remember). My best guess is that the SM told the scout that it was OK and signed it off. I do have a philosophical question about what you do if a scout--especially a young scout--relied on a leader's erroneous assurances that a requirement was adequately met. I'd hate to penalize the

[Hunt 11]

the scout in such a circumstance--as far as he knows, the SM is the authority with the power to interpret and apply the rules. Even if he questions the SM's interpretation, if the SM assures him it's OK, I'm not sure we can expect a young scout to go to somebody else for a second opinion. Another thing I've learned from this is that indecipherable scribbles in a scout's Handbook are not the best form of records.

[LPC_Thumper 10]

Hi,

 

Let me put my district advancement committee hat on and do my best. All I can do is tell you what happens with our Eagle BoRs. OK?

 

We don't talk about what they did for leadership in anything other than for Eagle.

 

(Leading question) Shouldn't the unit (either the SM or ASMs, or the BOYS) run the unit? The district isn't going to even try. Now if it comes up that the scout didn't have the leadership done for Eagle, we would conference with the SM (who is attending the BoR or we don't start).

 

Previous assignments won't come into play. Or rather, shouldn't come into play...

 

Happy Scouting!!

[NeilLup 13]

Let me pour a little gasoline upon the troubled fire

 

Suppose the boy were asked a question that I was asked at my Eagle Board "Is there anything about any of your ranks that was not done according to the requirements? Did you cheat on any of the requirements? Is there any reason that you shouldn't be an Eagle Scout."

 

What would you have the boy say?

 

If I were on the Board and he told the story of serving as APL, I would pass him for having demonstrated Eagle Scout level Trustworthiness.