Too Eager and Too New?

[Scoutfish 16]

Okay, I am planning ahead right now, and I think I might be going in the right direction, but want some feedback from the more experienced crowd.

 

Last year, I was only a parent. This year, I am an ADL for a Bear Den. Next year I am going to be a Webelos den leader.

 

Now, since I am an ADL for the Bears, it's apparent that I do not hang out with the Webelos very much. But you know, while you may not have an intimate relationship with all the other dens, you do get an idea of what is going on.

 

My plans as a WDL next year include camping on average at least once a month. It may end up being none in January, and 4 times in may. Who knows - depends on the weather and the willingness of the boys( or their parents).

 

Currently, our Bear Den has 21 to 24 boys in it depending on who shows up each meeting. The current DL ( and his wife) do not like the idea of splitting the boys up even though we have to split them into 3 groups whenever we do an activity. (This in one of many, many reasons I want to be a WDL next year)

 

 

So as a Webelos den leader next year, I was thinking about 10 boys in my den. I want to do the whole patrol name/flag/yell/patch thing. Let them soak it up and enjoy it. Let it bring them together and become a strong group.

 

WEll, my question is this: Since ( as far as I can tell) they don't really do this kind of thing...would I be doing more harm by "rocking the boat" than if I just followed what previous Webelos dens did?

 

I mean - And I might be totally wrong - but I don't think our Webelos camp out except at the pack family campout.

 

As I said, I want to do a monthly thing.

 

Our CO has a big ole humongous feild behind the church. It is surrounded on 3 sides by woods, and the fourth side isn't clear cut, but not exactly the congo either. To get a feel of the size of this field:

There are around 8 soccer fields of various age appropriate sizes.

 

So- I wasn't planning on deep woods hiking every month, but thought of using this field for a while just to get these guys used to camping - but not in the same old pack family style they were used to.

 

And honestly, I like this field because it is within reasonable distance to facilities, yet isn't right next to facilities.And in the event bad weather pops up, it wouldn't be a big deal to pack out if necessary.

 

Start out in this fieled, work our way up as time goes by.

 

 

Okay, total honesty time: Am I being too easy, too hard, rocking the boat or have I entertained illustrious ideals I probably won't reach?

 

Am I overstepping my pack or too inexperienced to pull it off.

 

As a side note, when I mentioned that I was not opposed to being a leader next year, the CM, ACM ,and COR all almost did backflips. Other DL's all gave me the "atta boy" pat on the back.(except the one)

 

Should I take that as a sign of them being okay with my ideas or just as a "relief" for their workload? LOL!

 

Oh yeah, one more thing: I just recently taken BALOO, have taken YPT, and a bunch of other BSA online classes. I am signed up for leader essentails and leader specific next month and I am going to take them as Webelos instead of my current Bear position.

 

And I mysteriously got a flyer in the mail from my council for WB21 even though I did not request or ask for it.

[Basementdweller 608]

May I suggest visiting a Scout troop in the area. I would suggest taking your Boy Scout leader training now. It will give you an idea on how things should run by the book. Now, it won't always happen.

 

It is your den, but as a courtesy I would have a sit down with the CM, CC and COR and let them know what you have in mind.

 

I am planning the exact same thing with our bears den once they graduate. They are working on a Patrol name....none have past the scout spirit test yet. Barking Spiders, rabid chiwawas, stepped on ducks, Flaming pancakes, some others I am embarrassed to post. they had a blast but haven't found it yet. This year we had a small Bear flag they carried.

 

I will say that one camp out or outing a month is more than enough. You don't want to burn them out before they reach Boy Scouts.

[Lisabob 13]

I agree that more than one camp out a month is too much. Many boy scout troops wouldn't sustain that. Have a lot of fun with the Webelos but don't over-burden them. And don't burn them out on boy scouting before they ever cross over, either.

[Eagle92 110]

This is my advice, and you can take it or leave as you know what you den will need.

 

1) As already stated get trained NOW. I recommend Webelos Specific and the Scout Leader Intro to Outdoor Leadership Skills. I say IOLS instead of Webelos Outdoor Leadership because the I have been told that a new outdoor leader training covering Webelos, Boy Scout, and I am assuming Venturing topics (Venturing leaders with outdoor programs are now required to complete IOLS in order to be considered trained) will be comign out very shortly. Also take the HAzardouos Weather online training as that is now required for tour permits if memory serves.

 

2) Start developing a relationship wiht a troop, preferably one that is the "organized chaos" a youth led, patrol method troop. It helps with the following.

A) starts the process for AOL and Moving on.

B) can help provide opportunities for camping and other activities (let's not forget hiking and rock climbing among others)

C) Help provide leadership in the form of a Den Chief. Trust me a good denchief is worth their weight in PLATINUM ( caps for emphasis) Just make sure you use your DC;)

D) May help provide equipment and resources for your den's outdoor program.

 

3) Talk to the CM, and CC of your pack about your unit's traditional calendar. Some pack's will do the same things over and over, i.e family camp outs, PWD, Regattas, etc. You don't want scheduling conflict's on the unit level between the pack and the den. WEBELOS ARE CUB SCOUTS AND PART OF A PACK (caps for emphasis and a little bit of shouting. Pet peeve of mine when folks say Webelos are not Cub Scouts.)

 

4) talk to other WDLs at RT,a s well as RT staff. talking amongst your peers helps with A) ideas for meetings and B) Activities

 

5) Review the district and council calenders to again avoid scheduling conflicts and scheduling too much.

 

6) This is going to sound strange form a guy who is a camping freak, But I would NOT schedule monthly campouts until BS age. However I would use the pack, district, and council calendars to see where opportunities to go camping exist. At this stage there is such a thing as too much Scouting.

 

7) Also don't focus just on camping. Do a rocket launch. Do hikes. Do visits to museum os the USS NORTH CAROLINA, go to an Indoor climbing gym.

 

8) HAVE FUN ( YEP I'M SHOUTING AGAIN )

 

Overall You got the motivation and vision. That's great, just need a little seasoning. And like the youth you will make mistakes. That's ok, just as long as you learn form them.

 

Again HAVE FUN!

[eagle90 125]

I agree with Lisa - don't burn them out on Scouting before they get to Boy Scouts. Give them something to look forward to. A couple campouts a year for Webelos is sufficient. The when they get into BS they can camp all they want. You also don't want to overburden the Webelos parents with too many activities. They will burn out quicker than the boys, not to mention the monetary costs.

[Twocubdad 665]

I'll agree with the others that camping once a month is too aggressive. Even with the boy scouts a hard and fast once-a-month campout is hard to keep up. Enthusiasm starts to fall off and eventually attendance follows. We break it up with fun outdoor activites, not always campouts, like skiing or a day of climbing.

 

I would also suggest you go easy on the plan to break up the dens. You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT that 24 boys is two many. You need to make the split happen. BUT, look at the big picture. What is to happen with the other 14 boys. Help recruit additional WDLs and work with them to help develop a solid Webelos program for all the boys.

[Scoutfish 16]

COOL!

So, thanks everybody who has replied so far.

 

So maybe ...camp 6 times a year plus the two pack campouts?

 

Of course, I wasn't meaning deep woods camping or a site that required an hour of driving, but actually - the property that our CO uses for soccer/ athletics...but point still taken.

 

TwoCub:

As I said, we have between 21 and 24 boys depending if all show up. The current DL ( or actually his wife) ( we won't go there!) wants to keep the boys all together forever nd ever and be a great big loving family (Psycho theme music here! LOL!)!

 

Anyways, that DL will also be a Webelos DL next year and we have two other Asst ADLs( that make sense?) that will either step up as full time ADL's or may even become DL's.

 

That would be the best scenario: 4 Webelos Den leaders for an average od 8 boys per den - not counting any new boys who may join up after roundup.

 

I'd personally prefer about 8 boys to start with, but may actually end up with an even split of 12 ,depending on wether the other Asst ADL's step up.

[Basementdweller 608]

I forgot the absolute first step. Buy or Borrow the Webelos book.

 

Read the parent intro section in the front of the book. This will provide you more guidance than that Stupid Webelo Leader guide. Worthless

 

24 boys in a den is impossible. There is no possible way for you to give each scout the attention they deserve. We visited a Pack that had 15 boys in a den. The night we visited they were sharing their collections.......It took 1.2 hours. Den Camping for 48 people is a problem, den camping for 16 is much easier.

[Lisabob 13]

I really appreciate your enthusiasm but I still think you are over the top on the camping. 8 times a year (2 with the pack, 6 with the den) is a LOT for most 4th graders. Keep in mind that there is a great deal that you can do with the boys outdoors, without requiring them and their parents to camp. Remember that if you lose the parents you are going to lose the boys, and at the cub level, it is expected that a parent or guardian is going to accompany each boy in most cases. (and with a herd of 24 boys, you had better make sure you have a ton of adults because it is a major challenge to look after 24 9 and 10 year olds for a weekend!) Take a careful look at the parents in that den right now. How many of them are going to be turned off by too much, too soon.

 

My advice is to ease into this more slowly. Many families will have no experience, no equipment (think about costs, too), and uncertain levels of interest in camping. You have them as Webelos for a year and a half. Build some skill and comfort level before you expect them to go wild with camping. You are not running a mini boy scout troop. You are running a webelos den.

 

And hey, there are all kinds of cool things to do in the webelos program. Do not get so focused on camping that you overlook the other stuff.

 

 

[Twocubdad 665]

Complete your Webelos Den Leader training, THEN start planning your program. You will have a better idea for the priorities of the program. Don't get the cart before the horse.

[Scoutfish 16]

Lisa,

 

OH NO! You misunderstood me. Our current den has 24 boys. Next year, I will be leading a second den. WE are splitting. At the most, I would have half.

 

But hopefully, a few other registered volunteers in our den ( there are two) will step up and either bevcome dl's too or at least ADLs.

 

Other than that....thanks for your imput. Like I said, I don't know and all info is appreciated.

[Scoutfish 16]

TwoCubDad,

 

CHECK! Doing it April 27th and 29th , next month.

[Lisabob 13]

Glad to hear you are splitting the den. Even 12 is a lot. Best thing you can do right now is get the webelos book and start looking at it. Keep in mind, too, that there are plenty of fun activities to do that aren't necessarily in the book (so long as they aren't prohibited or recommended against by other guidelines like G2SS)

 

Go to Round Table and start getting to know area troop leaders. See about doing maybe 2 or 3 things with local troops next year so your boys and their families are comfortable with the troops by the time cross over comes around. Find out if local troops do any sort of early fall activities with webelos and get yourselves invited. This might be just a day activity and not a joint troop+webelos campout at first, and that is ok. Keep the barriers to participation low. Make sure that you plan for activities with high probability of success and fun, that won't scare away less active parents or less experienced campers in the process.

[Stosh 3452]

I don't adhere to the idea that too much camping will burn out the boys in Boy Scouts. There's no such thing as too much fun from my point of reference.

 

However, with that being said, one does not have to camp to have a quality outdoor activity for the boys. Suppose they want to do some cooking. They plan the meals, get the items needed, toss in a day pack, hike 5 miles out into the woods, build a fire, cook lunch and then hike home. Take time to identify plants and animals, enjoying the day. All these things are great for getting the boys ready for Boy Scouts but don't need the heavy work of camping out every time, especially in the winter months when it might be a wee bit cold.

 

Hikes, fishing, day at the pool (all do the BSA swim test), all build relationships with the boys and cost little or not investment money on the boys. Of course all these things tie into the Webelos pin program as well. Get to know a bit about the Boy Scout program, identify areas where the pins over lap the Boy Scout requirements and have at it. National as introduced the historic merit badge Signaling. This would be a great thing to get an old Signalling MB book and use it as a challenge to the Communicator Pin.

 

Anytime you can kill two birds with one stone, go for it. The boys will have a great time whether it's on a campout or a hike. Maybe do a few hikes for cooking, packing, etc. as a means to build up to a really nice campout in the summer time.

 

I like the idea of a monthly activity but it doesn't need to be all camping. I started camping when I was 4 years old and have kept it up for 55 years without burning out. The burn out argument is bogus. I used to camp with my family from late April to middle of October, every weekend in Wisconsin. When I travel I always camp instead of hotels.

 

The key is to build up to it and not start out with your first race being the Indy 500. Let your boys work into it gradually and give them time to appreciate every step of the way.

 

Stosh

[Eagle92 110]

I wouldn't call it burn out, rather I would call it getting bored too quickly. That happened to me for a while. The campouts, while fun, were not CHALLENGING. Now grant you this started after I did my HA trip to Canada, which campouts couldn't compare to. Also there were other factors involved as well: need to work to support myself, and the LC wasn't doing as many seperate activities as they had doen in the past (partially my fault I must add).

 

Luckily once I got into college and had more flexibility in the work schedule, I started camping on a monthly basis again. Thern again OA helped with the "challenging" aspect I was lookign for.